Author Topic: Render Legion and Corona Join Forces with Chaos Group  (Read 49768 times)

2017-08-27, 10:13:23
Reply #120

vlado

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When you say "agreed", is this in writing?
We added text to the contract to ensure that Corona continues to be developed, yes.

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What does that mean? That a fusion is the goal of this deal? What would the benefits be for Corona in that case? Its simplicity is what makes it good.
It means that we will help the Corona team with anything they might find useful, like 2d displacement, clipper, OpenVDB and Phoenix support and other things, and it will continue to be offered at a decent price.

Quote
but I'm not going back to wrestling with render settings in VRay again if you kill off Corona. I'd rather find another alternative altogether. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I think that's what a lot of people here are thinking.
I know that, of course. You should be able to use the tools that you are happy with. I've always said so on the V-Ray forum, even long before this happened. If Corona works better for you, it's great and we want to keep it this way. I don't have any delusions that you would go back.

Best regards,
Vlado

2017-08-27, 10:23:32
Reply #121

JoachimArt

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The deal was only possible because we agreed that Corona must continue to be developed independently, as the Corona team decides. We also agreed that Corona's price point is important for its success.

This is exactly the kind of things that were just partly explained in the news story which the corona users needs to hear (over and over apparently :D ).
I really hope this all works out the way you intend it to do, it can be an even brighter future for both renderers. Thank you Vlado for taking the time to explain things further.

It would be nice if everyone calm down a bit now, stay positive and hope for the best. It's smart and decent people behind both of these renderers ;)

2017-08-27, 10:24:18
Reply #122

vlado

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Because we already see it how was closed splutterfish (brazil r/z) to make new interactive visualizer and where it now after alpha release and several years development? How autodesk buying team and abandon development. That's why we afraid
Yes, there are those examples. However I believe that there is a difference; we are both small companies compared to Imagination Technologies and Autodesk, and we both deeply care about the products we develop. Imagination Technologies is a hardware company and their only interest was to develop those acceleration boards. It's also not clear how long Brazil r/s would have survived on its own (believe it or not, rendering is not a terribly profitable business). The whole M&E sector is a blip on Autodesk's bottom line. On the other hand, both our companies have a common goal - to give you the best tools to visualize your ideas and one of those tools is Corona.

Best regards,
Vlado

2017-08-27, 10:58:46
Reply #123

Monkeybrother

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When you say "agreed", is this in writing?
We added text to the contract to ensure that Corona continues to be developed, yes.

Quote
What does that mean? That a fusion is the goal of this deal? What would the benefits be for Corona in that case? Its simplicity is what makes it good.
It means that we will help the Corona team with anything they might find useful, like 2d displacement, clipper, OpenVDB and Phoenix support and other things, and it will continue to be offered at a decent price.

Quote
but I'm not going back to wrestling with render settings in VRay again if you kill off Corona. I'd rather find another alternative altogether. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I think that's what a lot of people here are thinking.
I know that, of course. You should be able to use the tools that you are happy with. I've always said so on the V-Ray forum, even long before this happened. If Corona works better for you, it's great and we want to keep it this way. I don't have any delusions that you would go back.

Best regards,
Vlado

Thanks.

2017-08-27, 11:00:47
Reply #124

Flavius

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Ok,

Now that I've cooled down a bit, and seeing Vlado spending time here replying maybe the devil isn't so black, hehe. J/k.

There are still some unsettling things, I just don't understand why, from a business point of view, invest money in extra hardware and extra salaries and all the added tax on top of that to develop two softwares that have the same output. If we are being told that Corona will have VFX and so on, then what will be the difference? The interface and render settings? What for, why have two softwares? Something is not right... And doubling the Corona dev team, but pricing to stay the same ... Is Chaos Group doing charity work here? People reacted the way they did, mainly based on ...well history and what happened when a bigger fish swallows the smaller one, and that we really liked the way Corona was developing now/pricing/ dev team attitudine and the whole atmosphere. Of course there is a general sentiment of fear and uncertainty. The great majority of people reacted in a negative way but I think they had a proper reason to do so. I was stunned when I first saw the news.

I am 50/50 at the moment... IF

1. Pricing doens't go insane.
2. Corona will not become with fifty million render settings
3. It will continue a proper development road with ALL the needed features and I will not hear "You have our sister product V-ray for x/y/z"
4. Ondra still posts poneys

Then I'm happy.

And I'm not a V-ray hater, I've been using it for for than 10 years, but I was happy when Corona freed me from the shackles of render settings and normal and distance thresholds from the Ir map.

And, for no particulary reason, here is one of the my first CG images ever done. (contest on defunct 3dcaffeine forums, Wordplay theme-Scholar-ship)
« Last Edit: 2017-08-27, 11:07:39 by Flavius »

2017-08-27, 11:19:23
Reply #125

iacdxb

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Hi Vlado,

Nice to see you here at C4D forum.

I am new to Corona at learning stage. I am/ was also VrayforC4D user since many years. I saw many user who were using VrayforC4D and now using Corona and everyone told me leave VrayforC4D and go for Corona. No doubt what Eddoron said.

Best of luck with corona, hope we will see Corona more productive, enhanced and polished.


Regards,
Imran.
Cinema 4D S22.
Mac Pro, Mac OS Catalina, 128GB, 2TB.

2017-08-27, 11:24:40
Reply #126

romullus

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What a mess! I merged all the threads into main one. Please stick all your discussions on this topic in one place.

By the way, does anyone knows if Ondra or someone else from Corona Team has made some comments on that yet? I'm visiting only the forum, so might be missing some crucial info :/
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
My Models | My Videos | My Pictures

2017-08-27, 11:27:10
Reply #127

pokoy

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Because we already see it how was closed splutterfish (brazil r/z) to make new interactive visualizer and where it now after alpha release and several years development? How autodesk buying team and abandon development. That's why we afraid
Yes, there are those examples. However I believe that there is a difference; we are both small companies compared to Imagination Technologies and Autodesk, and we both deeply care about the products we develop. Imagination Technologies is a hardware company and their only interest was to develop those acceleration boards. It's also not clear how long Brazil r/s would have survived on its own (believe it or not, rendering is not a terribly profitable business). The whole M&E sector is a blip on Autodesk's bottom line. On the other hand, both our companies have a common goal - to give you the best tools to visualize your ideas and one of those tools is Corona.

Best regards,
Vlado
True. Imgtec was mainly interested in having a raytracer/pathtracer renderer, back then NVIDIA acquired mental ray, AMD had their own plans with similar technology, and as a hardware house imgtec needed Brazil in their portfolio to be competitive (shareholders etc.). And there WAS active development taking place, Caustic cards WERE handed out to alpha testers, it's just that imgtec lost their vision and the decision makers had not understood in time that their hardware won't be able to compete in the PC market, and the gaming market just didn't need raytracers.

On another note, as a 'first-hand-witness' of the Caustic takeover and the subsequent EOL of Brazil I have to say that the comments on their forums have NEVER been so hostile towards the acquiring company. People were sad, mad but not downright offensive as in this thread.

2017-08-27, 11:38:18
Reply #128

hrisek

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I'm sad :( If on the market are 3-4 big companies, than companies have to be competitive with other companies. If one important company is going to be part of other important company, than is no chance to get competitive market. Prices will change (upper, not lower), updates will be with less new features. Autodesk has done it many times (actually Autodesk has discontinued Softimage software...). Well, i hope Corone will get 1.7 and prices will not change.
Greetings

2017-08-27, 11:45:38
Reply #129

Fritzlachatte

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The people all over the world (wide web) love David and Goliath comparisons. But this one doesn´t really fit.

What I always recognized and actually found sympathetic over the years, was the respectful intercourse with Chaosgroup and vice versa.
If people weeped because of Vray peeves, Ondra "and his crew" never found a discrediting word. It was some kind of coexistence at eye level.

There are many new chances and the idea of beeing able to use a vray model directly without the need of balancing gloss, bump etc. is nice.
A few years ago vray was a newcomer and the holy grail. Even today I wouldn´t compare them with Autodesk or Adobe. But if you want to do so, chaosgroup are more a garagestore combined with those players.
Has anybody ever thought, that Renderlegion just didn´t earn enough money. With me, they earned a few bucks for a very kind student´s license for playing around and just experementing a little bit.That is just a drop in a bucket. But worse are those, who are not even willing to invest anything, just trusting in piracy. I believe "our guys" have been just too nice! Professionals in R&D but not in financial questions.
I know there are coexistences, Porsche wanted to swollow Volkswagen, but as time told us, VW gulped Porsche, both are on the market, more than before! But if RL isn´t careful or blue eyed, they will end like Lancia, being a quirky mascot on the siding.

But all people here should learn, because they can´t change it anyway " in dubio pro reo!" give them time before you roll out the shitstorm. btw.Fstorm wants to earn money as well and their
(or his) alphaphase was much much shorter.

The only thing I don´t like is the way, how RL /Vlado encircle the price tag question. It is affronting their customers intelligence. By overemphasising, corona will be continued, they spare out the 2nd common question.  "We have decided not to disclose transaction details.Let’s not make it all about the money. "     
It might be okay if RL thinks it is indispensable these days, but hey, we all know at the end it is all about the money, and this is where "friendship" usually ends.

But guys, it isn´t worth forming a riotous mob :-)
« Last Edit: 2017-08-27, 12:03:38 by Fritzlachatte »

2017-08-27, 11:53:25
Reply #130

j_man

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Hi,

I thought I would speak up to help rebalance as there seems to be a lot of negativity about this.

I was lucky to be on hand to persoanlly congratulate the Corona team at D2. This is a clever match that will ensure the survival of Corona and accelerate the development of features with technology that Vlado and the team at the ChaosGroup have worked hard to develop since the start of VRay. I am looking forward to closer intergration of the two and using whichever renderer suits the needs of the task at hand with as little fuss as possible.
Thank you to both the Corona and VRay teams for being on hand to answer question personally at the D2, and to Vlado for taking the time to talk directly to people on the forums. Exciting times!

Josh.

2017-08-27, 12:31:36
Reply #131

Marvey

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And don't forget the terrible company that makes the vray conversion for c4d that takes at least months for updates and then puts out a broken version with features not working properly.
That's on us; we were young and inexperienced and we made a mistake. We will not make it again with Corona.

Best regards,
Vlado

Good news!! corona  for c4d team is doing one amazing job with the conversion!

2017-08-27, 13:16:53
Reply #132

Rhodesy

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Yes can't wait for the final c4d release. It's a shame CG doesn't have full control over the Vray C4D version as we saw modo integration race past us. Also hope some more time can be put in to a corona sketchup plugin now.

I'm really hoping there can be a fully universal cross app node based material editor. It makes so much sense rather than embedding all the settings in each app and working around each local restrictions and limitations. Just use the hosts mapping tools that's it. Is this possible?

2017-08-27, 13:28:23
Reply #133

BBB3viz

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I'm with Lasse on this. I think this is a good move for me as a user for several reasons:

First I think Vlado deserves a lot more credit than he's being given here (or at least the benefit of the doubt). Think about it: how many companies of the size of Chaos do we see that are still owned by the guy who developed the product in the first place? This is why all comparisons with ADesk, a listed company that works for investors, spends vastly more on marketing than it does on R&D, has only contempt for its users, and has locked itself in a business model that is driving both the company and its customers into the wall, are absurd. You should judge a company on its track record, and Chaos' track record on everything from innovation to customer care is completely pristine. To me, that makes a huge difference.

Second, I'm a both a V-Ray and a Corona user because both have significant advantages over the other and offer things that are not available in the other. And, like Peter Guthrie, I'm very excited about the cross-pollination that may come out of this deal, in terms of each team getting access to the discoveries of the other, and the things that we love in both packages finding their way into the other. Corona is a great product, but it's not perfect (displacement, RAM consumption, no GPU, tricky animation all come to mind) and if the deal can speed up improvements in those area, what's not to like about it. Hell, even if both products were to merge one day, would that even be such a bad thing? Maybe not, if it means combining the upside of both products into one and having to maintain one license instead of two. It might end up being cheaper and making my life easier.

And even if the products are to stay separate, which seems to be what was contractually agreed, what's wrong about Ondra's team getting access to more financial firepower and a treasure trove of tech to be mined as he wishes? I can't thing of any circumstance in which it would be bad news. In fact, this has already started happening and I can't remember anyone being unhappy with all the good things that have already come out of this cooperation for Corona, even though we didn't know there was some Vray tech behind it. Same goes for Vray: I'm a big fan of the direction it has taken in the recent past.

Last, I'm surprised by the amount of criticism that's being thrown at the Corona team for taking the money such a deal implies. Why? These guys have worked hard for years, built a fantastic product, amassed a large audience. It seems only fair that they should be rewarded for it. This is especially the case when you look at the care they appear to have taken to ensure that their product lives on and their users get a better deal out of it. I say bravo and congrats!

To me, this is only good news on so many different levels. And I wish the skeptics, whose misgivings I understand, would at the very least give the new team some time to prove itself.


2017-08-27, 13:40:59
Reply #134

^Lele^

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Lele posted on the chaosg forum: "Want things quick, Corona, want to go deeper, V-Ray.", that would be a reality..... so much for making rendering fun again :c

I believe it's all well cleared now (and will be clearer in the future), but my writing could indeed have been a bit more accurate, sorry for that.
But the point stands: if no one in the Corona user pool needs deep EXRs (i am making a thought experiment here, it may or may not reflect reality.), why should Corona implement them and inevitably increase clutter?
On the other hand, should the feature be requested, well, it so happens the one for V-Ray is production-proven (as it was production-requested!) a few times over, and it could perhaps be ported if needed, which is overall much cheaper on resources than for the RL team to go through all the coding phases anew (A.K.A. re-inventing the wheel.).

I hope I was clearer this time around, sorry again for the poor wording.
« Last Edit: 2017-08-27, 13:55:50 by ^Lele^ »