Author Topic: With all due respect to the Corona team  (Read 29168 times)

2016-10-28, 00:48:38
Reply #60

Ludvik Koutny

  • VIP
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 2562
  • Just another user
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
The easier program is to use for casual user, the harder it is to use for advanced user. And vice versa.

This is actually almost completely false.

There's actually simpler and more accurate way to put it: The easier program is to use, the easier it is to use, and the harder program is to use, the harder is to use :)

That's about it... If in near or far future manage to weed out all the technical settings that can be automatized, mostly those in performance tab, then it all comes down to just making art. And camera settings being in camera itself makes it actually more convenient, or having postprocessing in VFB exclusively, because you can't really tweak most of those things without seeing what you are doing on actual picture anyway.

It just requires a bit of mindset change. Same mindset change was required before for people who were used to the idea that IBL is actual dome light present in your scene, and not just direct sampling of the environment. It took a while, but people do not request domelight anymore and oppose it mostly.

It may take some adaptation time for current users but it won't make workflow any slower or harder. Things will just be on more convenient places and newbies to 3D will generally have easier time adapting because they will find those things on those convenient places. But please take this as general speech, do not convolute it around the environment override case. I already said enviro overrides will probably stay the way they are now for a while.

I drifted a little too far away from the point I was trying to make. There's not that much difference between what beginner and pro user needs. In general, if things are easy to use for newbie, they will be easy to use for pro user as well, and vice versa. The less of a renderer wall there is standing between you and the art you are trying to create, the better.

2016-10-28, 00:57:45
Reply #61

Fluss

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 547
    • View Profile
@romullus
I know this.

I never tweak materials for every scene. I try to keep right material in my library, which I may use in all light conditions. I just check, if I may believe to Megascans textures.
The way "nevermind that my tree is dark, I'll give more sun" is not my way.

A lot of libraries give us the wrong textures  (arroway wood or concrete for example) And the main problem usually reflection map. Usually it overbright and overcontrast. So it's good for interiors but bad for exteriors with strong sun.
From AXYZ metropoly collection, which I purchased recently, only one model is good for all conditions. And very hard to change the maps. In renderpeople collection I changed absolutely all textures.

I don't know if it will be a good deal to subscribe to Megascans. Is it possible to use their textures as it?

For test I'll made pure water in Megascans. I'll try to use dubcat's method with IOR map. If I'll get IOR 1.33 - it's ok and I'll subscribe. If not - not. Only thing I need to convert bitmap to IOR number. Do you know the way? May be I'll just create the Rock or Sand material and will compare IOR maps luminosity. Ok, it's need to think about the way.

Something tell me that I'll not get the correct result. But I'll check.

So I really believe in PB materials. And this issue is not about corona. It's about Megascans.

In fact, there is no issue. Dubcat's method is good and you should be able to use materials set up this way, in all lighting conditions. He just converted specular map to IOR (with LUT). Open your specular map in photoshop,16 bit color depth, apply the LUT (provided on his google drive : https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B10mLXqqmNkiTFpqaVloNEJzVGM) and save your IOR map. Make it once and you'll be ok with the shader. It's math, not magic. Corona does not handle specular maps, that's why there is a workaround.

All maps have to be loaded with gamma 1.0 except diffuse and translucency. That's it, everything is explained indepth in the tutorial, you really should read it closely :

https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php/topic,12945.0.html

edit: quote

2016-10-28, 01:03:40
Reply #62

astudio

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 171
    • View Profile
    • A-Studio
Quote
In general, if things are easy to use for newbie, they will be easy to use for pro user as well, and vice versa

Not vice versa. It's like tree. You have a lot of ways to go up and only one way to go down.

There are a lot of things to think about (and where to look for environment override ;) ) for new user. The Pro knows exactly what he really needs. Most important - he knows, what he doesn't. ;)

2016-10-28, 01:11:39
Reply #63

astudio

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 171
    • View Profile
    • A-Studio
@Fluss
Quote
All maps have to be loaded with gamma 1.0 except diffuse and translucency. That's it, everything is explained indepth in the tutorial, you really should read it closely :

:)

Only different that I tested it, read the Megascans and Marmoset sites, and you not. Last thing that I may think about is to change IOR along the leaf surface. But I'll test it anyway ;)

2016-10-28, 01:24:53
Reply #64

Fluss

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 547
    • View Profile
IOR map is just used to fake depth. If you don't want to, just leave it and set the ior value you want.

2016-10-28, 01:40:45
Reply #65

astudio

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 171
    • View Profile
    • A-Studio
what about reflection slot?

2016-10-28, 01:47:11
Reply #66

PROH

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 1138
    • View Profile
Leave the reflection slot empty, set color to pure white (for non metals) and level to 1. For metals you'll need to set a color that matches the metal color.

2016-10-28, 01:51:04
Reply #67

astudio

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 171
    • View Profile
    • A-Studio
Oh. It's a good example why I want a help documentation insteed googling.


2016-10-28, 02:02:49
Reply #68

PROH

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 1138
    • View Profile
It's all mentioned several places in Dubcats and Jurays threads about PBR and Megascans. This is just one way to use the BPR material. Other ways could be used with other texture assets. The Corona mat offers you the ability to adapt different workflows and methods depending on your routines, preferences and "render religion".

A specific "Megascans for Corona tut" should probably be made by Megascans (if Dubcats isn't enough for you).

2016-10-28, 02:07:52
Reply #69

Fluss

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 547
    • View Profile
Oh. It's a good example why I want a help documentation insteed googling.

Yep but that's mat theory, it as nothing to do with the renderer itself...

2016-10-28, 02:18:31
Reply #70

astudio

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 171
    • View Profile
    • A-Studio
PB materials means physically based. RROH proposes me to use 100% reflectivity and manage it with IOR. Fluss proposes to leave IOR at all.
What about "physically based"?
I never use 100% reflectivity ex. chrom or mirror. And never change IOR inside one material. Even for fake. IOR map for Megascan surfaces - I can imagine. But inside one object? Sorry. Same with 100% reflectivity.

There are two ways for me - Corona documentation and logic.

We haven't documentation and it's against logic. But may me something wrong with my logic...


2016-10-28, 02:30:28
Reply #71

PROH

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 1138
    • View Profile
Yeah, I didn't do that either (set reflection to full), but with the new PBR all is done with the gloss map and a valid IOR value. I've set up the free Megascan mats this way and it works.

You can do exactly as you like, but please don't ask for answers, and then misread them and throw them away with arrogance. That's not the way to get help.

And BTW - if you read the before mentioned threads carefully, then you'll find the logic. This isn't the good old standard mat...

Good luck with you 40+ monthly projects.

Over and out

2016-10-28, 03:29:21
Reply #72

astudio

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 171
    • View Profile
    • A-Studio
@PROH.

OK. I read the mentioned threads carefully.
Nice geek, good to know and time to forget. Respect to Dubcat, it was a peace of work.
As for me there is no reason to change the workflow and "manage everything with glossy".
After all IMHO reflection level is not should be used as an opacity slider for IOR. I'll wait for reflection map from Megascans. Or I'll use something else from old school. Standard material for example. ;)

PS. Just interesting that only thing which you put attention in this thread is my 40+ monthly projects. ;) Make things simpler and you'll have 50+. Regards.


2016-10-28, 04:51:50
Reply #73

burnin

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 1014
    • View Profile
astudio
please, stop acting as an arrogant brat
Loosen up a bit, observe surroundings and mimic, do photography as much as you can. If you wanna replicate the feel of the camera, camera you must become. Easy as that.
Understand the physics of light, the mechanics of eye and mind. It what vision really is.
No values are absolute truth...
Why you see masters & pros 'making' mistakes (ie. IOR 2) - it is their art, eye, vision and skill to reproduce with style, emotion, story... this is what you see and can observe (if able). There is no mistake ;)

Otherwise get Keyshot, Visual Desginer... easy & simple. You have many options.

2016-10-28, 05:03:01
Reply #74

astudio

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 171
    • View Profile
    • A-Studio
Ok,ok... I'll try to observe and understand what vision really is.  Let's stop this dispute till I learn Visual Designer. :)

2 PROH and Fluss.

I'm sorry. I didn't put attention that we have refl.glossy map insteed of glossy map. My mistake. May be it's possible "to manage everything with glossy". It's really new render concept for me. Must test.

There was no bright announcement for it, only that glossiness was changed "to offer the full glossiness range". You are not looking for it if you are don't know about it.

And what is clear for Corona developers - was not clear for me.

But I'm wonder how new user will feel with it without help documents.

Just interesting how much users have license without being forum users. And how much users of the forum know about using of refl.glossy map....

Once more. in five pages thread nobody say a word "refl.glossiness map".  So may be a help file is not so bad idea?

And yes, let's close this discussion, I am tired.
« Last Edit: 2016-10-28, 06:15:38 by astudio »