Author Topic: Noise on black  (Read 30212 times)

2013-06-11, 21:00:19
Reply #15

maru

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When I render this scene it takes AGES to compute initial pass and when I press cancel it freezes and blinks a few times until "passes 12/12" are complete. Looks like it's corrupt? I'll try merging.
Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
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2013-06-11, 21:03:32
Reply #16

hglr123

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The same is here. I can't stop render in a while :D

And why you switch Gamma off?

2013-06-11, 21:06:40
Reply #17

ous_gt

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same thing happens to me, too. What's the reason?

Gamma was 2.2, it makes black become kinda grey. 1.0 is fine, than i can change it in photoshop if i want to.

2013-06-11, 21:30:44
Reply #18

maru

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Deleting the active camera and creating it again fixes the 12 passes issue. That's a progress.
Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
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2013-06-11, 21:33:20
Reply #19

Ondra

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probably some multipass effect on the camera?
Rendering is magic.How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2013-06-11, 21:35:46
Reply #20

ous_gt

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Yes, depth of field was on. But just on the camera, not in render settings. Thought it wouldn't calculate. Yes that's a progress, thanks.

2013-06-11, 21:44:59
Reply #21

maru

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But still it renders extremely slow. When I override all materials with a gray-ish CoronaMtl everything is 100x faster. If it's converted from Vray maybe you left some things that shouldn't be there?
Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
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2013-06-11, 21:47:15
Reply #22

ous_gt

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may be. it was converted from vray, yes. I will double check to see if something remains.

2013-06-11, 21:53:18
Reply #23

maru

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Found who's guilty:

Box01

When you change its material to matte grey - everything works fine. When you enable reflections - it renders much much slower. Now why? This is crazy.

update: now it doesn't work, I give up. The only thing that comes to my mind is to re-do all the materials in the scene.

update2: or maybe not, it looks like it slows down when you use a reflective material even when there are NO light sources in the scene.
« Last Edit: 2013-06-11, 22:03:21 by maru »
Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
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2013-06-11, 21:59:48
Reply #24

ous_gt

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I'm really excited to see how hard you're trying to solve this. Thanks so much for your interest.

2013-06-11, 22:01:38
Reply #25

ous_gt

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It's easy to redo all the materials. But, when you enable reflections, it slows down again right? So there's no point of doing that actually.

2013-06-11, 22:22:28
Reply #26

maru

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Ok. Here is what I've found. This happens in A4 and in A5 Jun 10 2013 23:54:27.

1. Create a box.

2. Place your camera (or just view) inside the box so that you can view it from the inside, like in a room.

3. Create a new CoronaMtl and without changing any values assign it to the box.

4. Render.

5. Create a new CoronaMtl, change its reflection level to higher, like 0,8.

6. Render.

7. Change diffuse colour to some very light grey or white.

8. Render.

Now I bet it's related to the way Corona works but it means that lighter and more reflective things will render MUCH MUCH MUCH slower than dark and matte things. This is strange because it happens even when there are no light sources so the image renders black but it looks like Corona calculates lots of light bounces (?) anyway. Can anyone check if it also happens on other hardware?
Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
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2013-06-11, 23:03:45
Reply #27

Ondra

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ok, I took a look, here is a couple of notes:
1. Don't put CoronaLights into the windows. They are blocking the environment/sun which is then sampled for nothing. To get the lighting from environment it is enough to leave the windows free, or put a geometry there with CoronaPortalMtl for additional speed boost (but the same visual result).
2. The weird multiple rendering was due to multipass effect turned on on the camera
3. Do NOT use gamma 1.0, it is simply wrong. If you like the look of gamma 1.0, then render it with gamma 2.2 and darken it in postproduction. Corona assumes in some places max is set up for linear workflow (rendering without it is really just a thing of the past, it does not make sense to support it in a modern renderer like Corona). Not using LWF could result in some unexpected bugs. Although it looks like the scene works fine.
3a. BTW: Corona overrides 3dsmax gamma settings for output by default, so you are using 2.2 anyways ;)). But with the risk of some bugs.
4. It is possible the reflections from the black material stopped converging at all because Alpha4 is using an obsolete random number generator that had this problem. This will be fixed in the next release, you can also try to change it in A4. I dont remember the exact names of other RNGs in A4, but something like "5D + PRNG" should work better.
5. The most important: the slowness of the black material is not actually due to the material, but due to the slowness of the entire scene. Your renders have extremely low number of passes for the time elapsed. There are usually 2 reasons for that:
a) low rays/s number - this is usually due to some really crazy texmaps/geometry. This is not your case, milions rays/s are fine
b) high rays/sample (you need to press stats button in VFB to see it). This is usually because of too bright materials/too complicated geometry with opacity, and this is indeed your case. Most materials in your scene have albedo (sum of all its colors) near 1. It is generally not possible to render scenes with albedo = 1 in an unbiased way. Scenes with albedo close to 1 can be rendered, but with extreme render times, such as yours.

tl;dr: you have too bright materials in an enclosed space, that are slowing down the render. You should make your materials darker and compensate by increasing exposure.

Perceptually white material can be made both by setting diffuse color to 1 and using light with intensity 1, or by setting diffuse color to 0.5 and light to 2. The latter is much faster and usually also more physically correct. CG artists have a long tradition of using too high albedos. See this chart: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Albedo-e_hg.svg - most real materials reflect less than 30% energy!

But, if you do not wish to change the scene, then just simply decrease maximum ray depth in the main renderer settings. Value about 7-10 will decrease the time to 1/3.
Rendering is magic.How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2013-06-11, 23:26:37
Reply #28

ous_gt

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Thanks Keymaster. You're the best. I wish every render engine had a developer like you. This helped a lot. The only thing i couldn't find is, how to change RNG.

2013-06-11, 23:37:09
Reply #29

kumodot

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Can someone COMPILE all Keymaster´s advises about Corona behavior on specific situations. There´s a lot of "Words of wisdom" from Ondra spreaded over this forum. :)
« Last Edit: 2013-06-12, 00:21:25 by kumodot »
Your Portuguese is worse than my english.
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