Improve CoronaAO UI

[Ludvik Koutny]

(Moving mantis feature requests to forum)

It would be good to add some spacing between UI elements of CoronaAO so the map doesn't feel so crowded.

[romullus]

Unless i'm misunderstood something, but there are checkboxes already.

Original report was for cosmetic UI upgrades: https://corona-renderer.com/bugs/view.php?id=1065

[pokoy]

I'd kill for map amount values on these. It's been rejected numerous times now but it's still something I don't want to miss.

[Ludvik Koutny]

Unless i'm misunderstood something, but there are checkboxes already.

Original report was for cosmetic UI upgrades: https://corona-renderer.com/bugs/view.php?id=1065

Sorry, my bad :) Will edit original request :)

[romullus]

That's why no one should work on mondays :]

BTW, that topics movement, is that means that from now forum is preferable place to post feature requests? And what about bug reports?

[Juraj]

That's why no one should work on mondays :]

No one should work in these 34+C temperatures at all :- (

It's been rejected numerous times now but it's still something I don't want to miss.

Why was it if I can ask ?

[pokoy]

Why was it if I can ask ?

Let me roughly cite the argument here, (and sorry for the slightly sarcastic tone, please take it with a grain of salt):

Q: Why can't we have amount values in AO map slots?

A: Because it clutters the UI and can be easily achieved in the output options of the nested maps.

Q: But that would require me to go into the map tree which is cumbersome and I can't use these maps as instances as a change in output would automatically apply to all instanced maps.

A: To keep them instanced you can nest them into an Output map then and use the controls of the Output map instead...

Q: Still way more complicated than to just set a value in the AO map directly. Also, I always need to go through the map tree only to see what their output values are.

A: Whatever, we will not implement it, it clutters the UI.

In short, it's too advanced and will confuse the user.

[Ludvik Koutny]

Why was it if I can ask ?

Let me roughly cite the argument here, (and sorry for the slightly sarcastic tone, please take it with a grain of salt):

Q: Why can't we have amount values in AO map slots?

A: Because it clutters the UI and can be easily achieved in the output options of the nested maps.

Q: But that would require me to go into the map tree which is cumbersome and I can't use these maps as instances as a change in output would automatically apply to all instanced maps.

A: To keep them instanced you can nest them into an Output map then and use the controls of the Output map instead...

Q: Still way more complicated than to just set a value in the AO map directly. Also, I always need to go through the map tree only to see what their output values are.

A: Whatever, we will not implement it, it clutters the UI.

In short, it's too advanced and will confuse the user.

If you look at almost any native 3ds Max map, you'll see they don't have amount spinners next to the map. If you ever use CoronaAO for to drive procedural effects, it's most likely you'll use it as a mask, not directly, so editing output parameters of source maps makes a bit more sense than mixing it in the AO map. It would really be too much stuff in the map for very specific workflow people use rather rarely.

If you do that kind of complex material where you actually utilize AO maps for say procedural effects, than I can't see why you even after all these years still do not use slate editor. It's just so much more efficient for pretty much everything. If you use old Material editor, then sure, it would be great to have entire shader tree compiled into one long rollout of buttons, and you would save time if you wanted to tweak all the stuff, since you would not have to go back and forth, but you would also waste time searching for the button you need if you needed to do just something simple.

If there is a workflow that you do very often and you feel like you are wasting lot of time due to the absence of ability to mix input bitmap with input color, then maybe it would help to post practical example of that workflow. If it would be really inefficient, then i would like to try to come up with faster and easier way to do it, and if i could not, maybe i would reconsider pushing for the mix spinners. But for now, i can not find a single case where having them there would make something faster or easier enough to justify them being there.

[pokoy]

...If it would be really inefficient, then i would like to try to come up with faster and easier way to do it, and if i could not, maybe i would reconsider pushing for the mix spinners...

Well I gave up on that matter anyways, but if we talk about efficiency - what exactly is inefficient about having two values displayed at the same time visible at a glance vs. having to click several times in order to get the same information (not mentioning the time it takes to create two nested maps plus getting an overview with older files). Now repeat the same x 10 for tweaking a value and re-rendering and you may finally understand where my definition of an efficient UI comes from.

[Ludvik Koutny]

...If it would be really inefficient, then i would like to try to come up with faster and easier way to do it, and if i could not, maybe i would reconsider pushing for the mix spinners...

Well I gave up on that matter anyways, but if we talk about efficiency - what exactly is inefficient about having two values displayed at the same time visible at a glance vs. having to click several times in order to get the same information (not mentioning the time it takes to create two nested maps plus getting an overview with older files). Now repeat the same x 10 for tweaking a value and re-rendering and you may finally understand where my definition of an efficient UI comes from.

I've already posted video some time ago showing it's not much slower or harder to do so. Those spinners may make this quite specific task simpler, but since it's quite specific task, it doesn't justify those spinners. There are dozens of other specific tasks you may want to do along the way with AO, such as clamp it to get crisp dents on edges, multiply it with other texture, randomize it's colors and so on, yet not even Vray Dirt has color mapping curve, built in multiply function or color randomizer. If it would, it would grow into crazy panel of buttons.

It's your workflow, and i respect that, everyone has their workflows, but if everyone's workflow was accommodated inside every single map, it would be a crazy software to use. What you request is doable, and it's doable without that much of an effort. But again, i do not know practical examples of your workflow. And i would love to get to know it, as i have quite bit of experience with shading, it would be a fun challenge to develop a workflow that would be both quick and efficient for your specific requirements. And if i would fail, it would definitely convince me we need those mix spinners.

BTW i get that you are used to Brazil where one could control literally everything. Render settings, materials and maps had just so many options. But that may also be one of the reasons Brazil ended up the way it did ;)

[pokoy]

BTW i get that you are used to Brazil where one could control literally everything. Render settings, materials and maps had just so many options. But that may also be one of the reasons Brazil ended up the way it did ;)

Of course this had to be mentioned. You made your point perfectly clear.

[Ludvik Koutny]

Well, everytime you switch software, you have to adapt your workflow a bit, not just wait until your new software becomes exactly the same as the old one. I am really trying to help you here by finding fastest and most efficient way to do what you need while keeping UI simple and clean. There has to be right balance between UI simplicity and amount of control. I really do honestly think that one of the major reasons Brazil ended is that simpler and more efficient renderers took it's place and major chunk of it's userbase. It was not meant as an offensive poke.

There are just so many things you can do with 3ds Max shading networks and slate editor, and there are so many ways to speed things up, but if you keep confined in your old workflow you may never discover them.

[Ondra]

fixed the AO issue. Checkboxes issue will be revisited