Author Topic: A warning to all CG newbies.  (Read 13564 times)

2014-09-11, 12:34:47

K u r a i

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I thought I would raise this subject because it needs addressing. It especially affects people new to CG who need help and venture on the Net thinking it is a place of freedom and expression.
This idea is far from the truth and new recruits should not feel upset or worthless when someone does not reply to their emails. It's a modern day curse. They do it because they know they can get
away with it.... and there usual excuse is that they are too busy to respond. Once a website or Blog igoes public they have a responsibility to treat all equally.

There are people out there that genuinely care about the craft of CG and are very supportive to new recruits. But I have only encountered a few. But, let me digress a moment....

You have all been to social gatherings and feel abit on edge standing there with your glass of something... when a stranger decides to talk to you... and then they ask the question you've dreaded " So... what do you do for a living".
Your response to this question will determine whether they look at their watch, look for an excuse to leave and snub you or take your business card because you may prove useful to them.
It is snobbery plain and simple. Snobbery is when someone makes a quick judgement about you and decides they know all about your character. It happens on the web too.

I am new to CG and in the last 6 months my enthusiasm has been tainted by Blogs that snub you. And when I say 'Blogs' I mean the well known Blogs created by the so called "elite" of CG.
My feelings run so deep about this that I am thinking of creating my own Blog Watch-Dog... naming and shaming the bad apples... and venerating the good Blogs that are friendly and show empathy for newbies or
people in general. It's just not right that people can get away with this bad behaviour.... and unfortunetly, it's a growing trend. This is the age of the 'Selfie" and 'it's all about me syndrome'.

In the last 6 months I have come to realise that most Blogs are not places to share ideas... they are Social Clubs for members only. The veneer you see on the outside is window dressing for what the ultimate
goal is.... to build a big fan base and then sell advertising space or CG products. If you ask advice on their personal forums I am sure you will get an answer because the last thing they want the public to know
is how shallow they really are. But, send them a private email and you will get no response.... unless it's concerning a product they are selling. I have had a few responses though words to the affect that they
are too busy working on a project with a tight deadline and cannot help.... which brings me to the point of asking...."Why create a Blog then?"

Sending them praise is not enough, they only listen to people they feel are on their level. Professional snobbery.

Now, you are probably thinking, hold on a minute, matey boy! That sounds abit harsh. And the moderators are probably thinking, lets delete this message cos we don't want to rock the boat.
So, I must add that this is based on my experience of CG Blogs. Other people could have experienced rainbows, dew-drops and fairies on CG Blogs. But I did not! Sorry.

My advice to newbies is.... stick to Software Forums (like this).... you are usually dealing with professionals who are trained to help you and you normally get a good response or
led in the right direction. Avoid Blogs if you don't want to become disappointed. Case closed. Though there are a few Blogs that have been superb and answered back with good info.
In fact, one of the good Blogs directed me to Corona and told me to try it out.

I have enclosed a quick article about: People who don't answer Emails. There is a growing army of people out there that are getting fed up.










2014-09-11, 12:59:57
Reply #1

Ondra

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Well, when I was starting with 3D graphics and did not know anything, I too was frustrated with people not responding to my emails asking for help... no wait, I was not, because I did not write any emails to anyone. It did not even came to my mind that I should just approach somebody I have never met, never talked to, nor have any other connection, and straight up ask him to give me some of his time and energy to answer my questions. I have instead searched all over the internet, read tutorials (there were no videotutorials when I was starting... I feel old ;)), etc. And I surrounded myself with people roughly on my level, and we tried to search for answers together. We helped each other, but there was nobody just giving, and nobody just feeding.

I could turn your argument and make a pointless shallow counter-argument about how todays generation/people is lazy and expects to be spoon-fed knowledge when we had to actively search for it. But I will say this: nobody is obliged to answer any of your questions. Just imagine going to a restaurant and saying "I am hungry. I won't buy your food, but I want your cook to stop cooking and show me how to make this dish". Or going to car repair shop and saying "my car is broken, but I wont pay you for repair, I instead want your mechanic to show me how to fix it for free, so one day I could open up my own show and steal your customers". This is in principle what you are asking for, even though you might not realize it.

Also, if you look at it from another perspective... there are few thousands of visitors on Corona website every day. Imagine if 1% of them would decide to ask me something via email. I would have gotten tens of emails every day I would have to answer, and I could not do anything else just so you would not attack me, call me names, or threaten to publicly call me out. I would get literally nothing from this, just wasted time, that I could have used to make money, relax, or spend it with my family. And answering the questions just gets extremely boring after a while. There are really only a few questions that get asked over and over again, since nobody is willing to invest any energy in searching for previous answers.

So yeah, I side with the "elite". My advice to you:
1) Only ask for advice if you would think it would be appropriate to do the same in person
2) Realize that there are thousands of people like you asking questions to just few bloggers. They are not being rude by not answering, they just cannot keep up.
3) Find people on roughly the same level as you, and make a "study group"
4) Invest the time in searching. Most questions were already answered hundreds of time.

Rendering is magic.
Private scene uploader | How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2014-09-11, 13:26:13
Reply #2

K u r a i

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Well, when I was starting with 3D graphics and did not know anything, I too was frustrated with people not responding to my emails asking for help... no wait, I was not, because I did not write any emails to anyone. It did not even came to my mind that I should just approach somebody I have never met, never talked to, nor have any other connection, and straight up ask him to give me some of his time and energy to answer my questions. I have instead searched all over the internet, read tutorials (there were no videotutorials when I was starting... I feel old ;)), etc. And I surrounded myself with people roughly on my level, and we tried to search for answers together. We helped each other, but there was nobody just giving, and nobody just feeding.

I could turn your argument and make a pointless shallow counter-argument about how todays generation/people is lazy and expects to be spoon-fed knowledge when we had to actively search for it. But I will say this: nobody is obliged to answer any of your questions. Just imagine going to a restaurant and saying "I am hungry. I won't buy your food, but I want your cook to stop cooking and show me how to make this dish". Or going to car repair shop and saying "my car is broken, but I wont pay you for repair, I instead want your mechanic to show me how to fix it for free, so one day I could open up my own show and steal your customers". This is in principle what you are asking for, even though you might not realize it.

Also, if you look at it from another perspective... there are few thousands of visitors on Corona website every day. Imagine if 1% of them would decide to ask me something via email. I would have gotten tens of emails every day I would have to answer, and I could not do anything else just so you would not attack me, call me names, or threaten to publicly call me out. I would get literally nothing from this, just wasted time, that I could have used to make money, relax, or spend it with my family. And answering the questions just gets extremely boring after a while. There are really only a few questions that get asked over and over again, since nobody is willing to invest any energy in searching for previous answers.

So yeah, I side with the "elite". My advice to you:
1) Only ask for advice if you would think it would be appropriate to do the same in person
2) Realize that there are thousands of people like you asking questions to just few bloggers. They are not being rude by not answering, they just cannot keep up.
3) Find people on roughly the same level as you, and make a "study group"
4) Invest the time in searching. Most questions were already answered hundreds of time.

Hmmm. Good answer. And you underline what I mean't. You are alone. Don't expect any help from anyone. And when you have all the knowledge you need... don't share it.... why should you.
 
I have spent a part of my life as an art & design teacher and the student master relationship is no longer a part of todays generation. We are not simply talking about knowledge. All the knowledge you need is on YouTube.
I am talking about being inspired by someone's work. If I said to Einstein how did you create E=MC sq it would be impossible for me to understand his answer... but if he talked about his own struggles finding the answer
that would in turn give me inspiration. We are talking about humans here... not drones sat at computer terminals.

Also, not writing to people because you have never met them flies in the face of every act of creativity.... from books to film to art to music. People create to communicate. We carry each other along.

I don't think the advice you gave sounds right. Sounds abit mean spirited. Have you got a Blog too?
 

2014-09-11, 13:47:59
Reply #3

Ondra

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I don't think the advice you gave sounds right. Sounds abit mean spirited. Have you got a Blog too?

You are funny, I like you ;).


And I still give advice. But only when I feel like it - when I have the time and energy.
Rendering is magic.
Private scene uploader | How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2014-09-11, 14:01:48
Reply #4

lacilaci

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I'm interrested.. why exactly do you think that Keymasters advice isn't good? Please, be specific.

BTW, here's how mean spirited(but still appropriate) response to your first post would look like: "Learn some respect kid"

2014-09-11, 14:02:47
Reply #5

Juraj

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Hi Kurai, I have to agree with everything Keymaster said but I will argue in bit more detail. To preface my answer I have to say I feel quite angered by this self-righteous point of view,
which I presume may include also me, yet I am one of the people who answer everyone, but not second day given that I work like 14 hours a day, and see my family once a month and when I can do that,
last thing I wish to do is answer full A4 page long essays people write me on general issue.

First your point is naive and self-righteous, and quite selfish too. You've built a construct of world where everyone should be obliged to help you, for no other reason that just because you want.
You base your right for immediate answer on some abstract self-constructed concepts like "act of creativity" (? creativity is concept that can be completely introverted) and demand in selfish manner like spoiled child
with no consideration for others. You show zero empathy and understanding outside of your own concern and anger that world doesn't suddenly cater to your needs whenever you want it.

You missunderstood concept of public internet. The reason people share can range from purely selfish to completely altruistic intentions. Or any mixture between just like any issue in life. But it is not in your position to
judge particular person's reasons. It is, after all, their space, it's not everyone state-run community, it's personal space. In counter fashion, you can create your own.

People don't prefer public sharing of information because of some conspiracy argument of "don't appear shallow". Attacking people with such absurd claims only show your own projections of insecure mentality.
People prefer it because it has numerous benefits, like these few examples bellow:
-In public space, everyone benefits from answer, not single person, but 10, hundreds, hundred thousands ! What is 'better' ? Singe person learning answer ? Or hundred thousand ? Or do you think it's viable o answer thousand answers ? And forfeit any kind of life ?
-It also saves time of the creator. People don't start blog because it's the only thing they do in life. Most of time, surprisingly, still have life..and work. Blog can really be 0.1perc. of their past-time activity. It again, depends individually per particular case, but it's not up to you to judge for that. They're not obliged to share anything on top of the blog with you, some blogs (or media venues) don't even offer discussions, they simply share. In single direction. You just have your own understanding of the concept and you force it to everyone.

Just like Keymaster wrote, I never emailed anyone in my life. Why ? Because based on my culture and mentality, I consider it incredibly rude to ask people of their knowledge I don't have any obligation to deserve. Instead, I relished every time they decided to publicly (with everyone !) share some knowledge on their "self-centered" blogs. I was happy they had one, because the alternative was they would have none.
And that's like everything in life, we're not obliged to anything, except for death (and taxes).

You show no empathy or try to understand why people might not write you from 'practical' reasons. Just like Keymaster wrote, they're gettings hundreds of these emails. I can't even imagine the amount of email must PeterG or Bertrand get. I myself get like 20 (often lengthy A4 type essays per week), with repeated, general type of questions I answered hundred times on blogs, or varied forums. The people were just lazy to search for answers, they felt obliged to just bluntly ask again, with no consideration for my personal time. If I were to answer in proper detail (that they ask for), it would take me like 30 minutes per email, that's 10 hours of week, or two full work days of something no one pays me, or time I don't spend with stuff of my choice (family, friends, hobbys).
2 days !! And that's just me, now try to imagine someone way more popular. Do you seriously think they have time to answer emails as the only activity of the week ?

Emails are private medium. Most people don't have them for outsiders. Just because we live in internet era, doesn't mean you are you obliged to just connect to anyone in any way and demand intrusion into their privacy. Most people have emails for work and inner circle only. It's parallel to you coming to knock on their doors and just asking them in middle of day something, disrupting their privacy, their day/night activity. It's same thing literally and you really that's completely fine ?

I don't know if it's worth even to continue. For all sakes, start a 'shaming' blog as you write. Because that's like amazing idea, that will absolutely revolutionies the environment we currently have and it will probably inspire people to share more. Except it would do exact opposite... ? I don't know...how does logic work.
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2014-09-11, 14:16:41
Reply #6

K u r a i

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I don't think the advice you gave sounds right. Sounds abit mean spirited. Have you got a Blog too?

You are funny, I like you ;).


And I still give advice. But only when I feel like it - when I have the time and energy.

Just to clarify... I am talking about communication.... not knowledge.... at the end of the day.... Courtesy costs nothing :)

I wrote to the Director of a software company asking if I could experiment with his software before I commit....he gave me a license for a year. He proabaly gets thousands of emails a day.
But, he choose to help cos it was part of his nauture. Which in turn makes me loyal to his product. Also, I asked one of the most famous architects in the world about his work and how it inspired me.
He invited me for a guided tour of his state of the art studio in London. Again, he did this cos it was part of his nature.

Sometimes good things happen when you ask.... or have a genuine interest in something.... as the saying goes...."there is nothing more interesting than someone who is interested" :)

Thanks for responding :)))) It's all harmless stuff.




2014-09-11, 14:38:00
Reply #7

K u r a i

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Well, Juraj, we only defend something that's not true. And you have gone to great length in painting my words in a bad light.
I did not mention any names of Blogs or people. But since you have gone on your orange box about this I will be terse.

Courtesy costs nothing. If you do not respond to four email then you have chosen to do so. You have decided that it is unworthy of your time to respond.
This is your choice. But you should change your email address from: sayhello@jurajtalcik.com to something closer to the truth.

BTW. I am the opposite of what you feel I am. I go to great lengths to always put myself in other peoples shoes and write good things about there work. My only crime is that I share an interest in CG. Surely, this is worthy of some respect?
I don't think selfish is apart of my persona. I actually like people. I just dislike snobs :)

I think you should re-read your response. Your the one who comes across as selfish. You say things with such venom. I cannot believe I wrote to you.... but, I must admit... your work is brilliant :)


 
« Last Edit: 2014-09-11, 14:51:08 by K u r a i »

2014-09-11, 14:48:36
Reply #8

Juraj

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Well, out of your 4 monologues, I actually answered two, and then went to Sweden. But now I am done with you. You could have gotten your answer but instead you chose to attack multiple people, of which I 'rightly' guess I am part of.
But for sure, in your logic, that means I had gone 'out of orange box', whatever that means.
Had it ever cross your mind that the email is associated with my business perhaps ? I even have a thread here, dedicated purely to questions. One where you can ask, and others can read it. Something that benefits 3 parties (me, you, and others).

What you write you are, and what you come across as from your writing, are two very different subjects. Currently they contradict in my opinion a lot and I suggest you to look more at your own stance before pointing at others and projecting.
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2014-09-11, 14:49:51
Reply #9

lacilaci

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2014-09-11, 14:50:20
Reply #10

Ludvik Koutny

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You obviously spend a lot of time thinking and writing about this mailing issue. If you spent this time instead by browsing internet for the answers you mail those people about, you would probably have at least one less reason to mail them because you would learn something new. I often see this on CGtalk. There are two groups of people. One group, which just talks about CG and spends most of their time replying to those abstract threads in General Discussion section, and other group, which spends time doing actual CG, and improving themselves.

2014-09-11, 14:52:04
Reply #11

K u r a i

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Are you ignoring my question kurai?

No... I am just picking my kid up from school and then I will reply. Thanks

2014-09-11, 14:58:10
Reply #12

lacilaci

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Are you ignoring my question kurai?

No... I am just picking my kid up from school and then I will reply. Thanks

You see...? You are no better than the ones you talk about.. You have simply chosen to not reply to the question... When there is no respect in you on other peoples opinion how do you imagine to learn anything from anyone. You're not the center of the universe and the sooner you realize, the better..

2014-09-11, 15:18:42
Reply #13

burnin

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@Kurai
To many words and assumptions. Young are you in mind and soul. Learn to love thy enemy, till there's none left.
Patience, will and modesty... will bring answers that are in you.
Master serves only self and by that he is serving many. Or in other words - Only joyful can and will bring joy.

Ps
Snob is a mere human in fear and pain who cannot recognize the source within self. Thus making self an animal. Being of just meat, body, mater.
I don't feel you, am only an answer to an abstract i assume as another confused entity.

@Juraj & Keymaster
Respect

2014-09-11, 15:26:31
Reply #14

johan belmans

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pfff,

I hate it too that people don't take the effort to look for info by them selves. You can find a lot on the internet: blog tutorials, .....
Some of them are quite old, but still usefull. If you want to know how to use MAX, look for tuts or buy the books from Ted Boardman, no one can better explain how to use max.
There is a search bar here on this forum. If I read what people dare to post, you see that they are to lazy to search for info.

So I only can agree with Juraj and Keymaster ans hope they keep up the good work!!