Chaos Corona Forum
Chaos Corona for Cinema 4D => [C4D] General Discussion => Topic started by: 3DRenders on 2018-02-06, 21:22:50
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I have a normal scene, not too big - 4 million polys but it struggles to render on a A3....
My machine struggles to render any A3 image actually.
Is there a way to make it easier to render?
thank you
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The struggle is usually memory. Every render pass in a multipass render will require more memory, and this grows more significant the larger the resolution. So, you can remove render passes, with particular attention to LightSelect passes, the less of those you can use and still have enough control in LightMix, the better. Denoising also needs more memory, again for every pass it is enabled on (such as LightSelect passes), so you could use "Save Data for Later" and Denoise in the CIE, this may help. Or you could turn off Denoising altogether and simply render for more passes, if memory remains a struggle.
You can then also render in strips, and recombine later in post to give the full final image.
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You can then also render in strips, and recombine later in post to give the full final image.
Ok thanks Tom! Will that make a difference to do region render?
I thought beta 1 would render them better, but i'm stuck as i cant render these & dont want to send it to the renderfarm every time...
Will this improve in the future? I easily render A3 in Vray, so unsure why it wont work in Corona.
thanks for your quick response!
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To be honest, not sure on the Region Render - would potentially be harder to reassemble in post as they may not be exact :)
On the Corona and V-Ray memory comparison, are there any multipasses in use for Corona, the LightMix ones in particular?
I do believe there are future memory optimizations planned, in the core, so that should apply to 3ds Max and then C4D - but the devs would need to say for sure.
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To be honest, not sure on the Region Render - would potentially be harder to reassemble in post as they may not be exact :)
On the Corona and V-Ray memory comparison, are there any multipasses in use for Corona, the LightMix ones in particular?
I do believe there are future memory optimizations planned, in the core, so that should apply to 3ds Max and then C4D - but the devs would need to say for sure.
Ok so does lightmix make the render easier to render?
So, you can remove render passes, with particular attention to LightSelect passes, the less of those you can use and still have enough control in LightMix, the better. Denoising also needs more memory, again for every pass it is enabled on (such as LightSelect passes), so you could use "Save Data for Later" and Denoise in the CIE, this may help. Or you could turn off Denoising altogether and simply render for more passes, if memory remains a struggle
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ok i've set up lightmix, but unsure if it will render easier...I dont understand why it will :)
You can then also render in strips, and recombine later in post to give the full final image
Thats what i thought you meant with region render....Unsure how to render strips otherwise...
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Adding lightmix will take more ram. Every pass in the multi pass consumes more ram and it's especially noticeable when you get to 8-10k with 10/12 multipass channels. It can easily account for an extra 10Gb. How much ram do you have and how big is your image in pixels?
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Tiled camera to the rescue!
credit to burnin for finding this:
You then stitch those in your favorite image editor app... or use the script with PS "Tile Camera Auto Restitcher script for Photoshop" (@ CGSociety) (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=94&t=808343&page=1&pp=15l)
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Adding lightmix will take more ram. Every pass in the multi pass consumes more ram and it's especially noticeable when you get to 8-10k with 10/12 multipass channels. It can easily account for an extra 10Gb. How much ram do you have and how big is your image in pixels?
Ok thx Rhodesy! but why will TomG say to use Lightmix? I'm confused.
Thank you Eddoron! Will have a look
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Ok, i think it's not part of Cinema 4D Prime...
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How many RAM ?
Corona stop when I have 15 millions of polys. Mac OS 10.11.6 - 16 Go RAM
You can optimize your scene : using instances (render instance active), using the new polygon reduction tool (very very good), increase angle of splines to get less polys, etc.
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How many RAM ?
Corona stop when I have 15 millions of polys. Mac OS 10.11.6 - 16 Go RAM
You can optimize your scene : using instances (render instance active), using the new polygon reduction tool (very very good), increase angle of splines to get less polys, etc.
56 Gig. Running on an 8core machine 2.1 CPU
Yep all my instances are render instances.
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Adding lightmix will take more ram. Every pass in the multi pass consumes more ram and it's especially noticeable when you get to 8-10k with 10/12 multipass channels. It can easily account for an extra 10Gb. How much ram do you have and how big is your image in pixels?
Ok thx Rhodesy! but why will TomG say to use Lightmix? I'm confused.
Thank you Eddoron! Will have a look
Just re-read the thread and he is saying to remove lightmix passes if you have them in the scene already. Cant see where he says to add them? 56GB Ram should be enough for a 4million poly scene there must be something else up but hard to diagnose. Does it just not render? What is your task manager saying?
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It depends on how complex the scene but 8 cores are really few to be able to render an A3 (4960x3507), surely you will take many hours to reach a 4% noise level.
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ohhhh ok , now i see. Yes haven't had any in the beginning so i thought he meant i need to add them.. :D
Yes it renders, but incredibly slow....
What worries me is that this scene is small - My exterior scenes are massive with all the 3D foliage & that certainly wont render if this struggles :(
fabio81 - Yes, not complex at all. still trying to figure out what will be the best & quickest way to get any A3 rendered
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Ok, i think it's not part of Cinema 4D Prime...
Content Browser > Presets > Prime > Presets > Tools & Helpers > Tiled Camera
;)
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Ok, i think it's not part of Cinema 4D Prime...
Content Browser > Presets > Prime > Presets > Tools & Helpers > Tiled Camera
;)
you're the best cheers mate!!
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I use a lot pictures on plane for trees in background.
If you use Laubwerk plants, be careful because info about polys are wrong… C4D counts only polys of the preview shape. 400 polys ! Cool ! But if you convert in poly (C), 700.000 polys for one tree !!!
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Ok, i think it's not part of Cinema 4D Prime...
Content Browser > Presets > Prime > Presets > Tools & Helpers > Tiled Camera
;)
you're the best cheers mate!!
no problem ;) hope it gets you running
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Thx guys,
No i dont use laubwork, but i attach an example of some of my typical scenes...
These were rendered with vray, but corona struggles which is bad for me because i'm trying to go over to corona...
Thanks
Jireh3D
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Do you use LODs for your plants?
How do you render your scenes? Do you render all plants at once(instanced) or in clumps and compose them later?
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Do you use LODs for your plants?
How do you render your scenes? Do you render all plants at once(instanced) or in clumps and compose them later?
Not sure what you mean by LODs...
I render it at once....all instanced
Scene roughly 8 million poly's (not sure how it calculates it with the instances included....)
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Do you use LODs for your plants?
How do you render your scenes? Do you render all plants at once(instanced) or in clumps and compose them later?
Not sure what you mean by LODs...
I render it at once....all instanced
Scene roughly 8 million poly's (not sure how it calculates it with the instances included....)
Level of Detail, basically you can set most plantgenerators to use less but bigger leaves the farther away from the camera, so you have less geometry for roughly the same look.. plants in front would have a lot more detail in terms of geonometry..
but it actually looks like those plants are all highpoly models just instanced, this is very memory/cpu heavy even on vray.. thats why most ppl now are goin for LOD options cause you cant see that much detail anyway in the background
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Ok i see, yes all high poly....Thing is it will all be animated as well, so high poly is important...
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Wouldn't like to loose me football in that back garden.
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Wouldn't like to loose me football in that back garden.
hahahahaha
Yes Here in the western Cape that is our typical ''Fynbos'' but yes you are right mate - That football would be GONE! :D :D :D
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It doesn't matter if it's an animation or not. With LODs, you save lots and lots of memory.
You don't need R19 or a tree generator for that, just a low poly version of the plants which you can create.
Then keyframe the appearance of the high/low-poly geometry or use xpresso to automate that based on distance.
You can also render the house and the plants in separate renders. and compose them later. (use placeholders to cast shadows onto those objects)
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It doesn't matter if it's an animation or not. With LODs, you save lots and lots of memory.
You don't need R19 or a tree generator for that, just a low poly version of the plants which you can create.
Then keyframe the appearance of the high/low-poly geometry or use xpresso to automate that based on distance.
You can also render the house and the plants in separate renders. and compose them later. (use placeholders to cast shadows onto those objects)
Oh ok, i see. Have no idea how to do it, but i understand what you mean
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Hi Jireh3D,
can you please send us a screenshot of "Stats" panel of VFB. The values from stats can help us to understand what is the complexity of the scene.
Nikola
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Hi Jireh3D,
can you please send us a screenshot of "Stats" panel of VFB. The values from stats can help us to understand what is the complexity of the scene.
Nikola
sure - Two of the scenes attached - 1 exterior & 1 Interior
The interior struggles so much...
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I‘m doing renderings like this in daily business with no problems at all.
If your rendering behaves different(crashes) in higher resolutions but runs fine with lower resolutions its most likely a memory issue.
One thing most people don‘t take into consideration is displacement. As this is resolution dependant (screen Space) by default and mesh subdivs will substantially increase and fill your memory with higher resolutions.
I highly recomend monitoring your memory usage. fe with Taskmanager oder activity monitor (OSX)
best regards
Markus
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did the Msi values change you? GIvsAA? they influence a lot on great resolutions
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I‘m doing renderings like this in daily business with no problems at all.
If your rendering behaves different(crashes) in higher resolutions but runs fine with lower resolutions its most likely a memory issue.
One thing most people don‘t take into consideration is displacement. As this is resolution dependant (screen Space) by default and mesh subdivs will substantially increase and fill your memory with higher resolutions.
I highly recomend monitoring your memory usage. fe with Taskmanager oder activity monitor (OSX)
best regards
Markus
Ok cheers Markus! I'm unsure as i have 56 Gig ram so a simple scene like that shouldn't have issues...
did the Msi values change you? GIvsAA? they influence a lot on great resolutions
no i leave the max sample intensity at default.
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It would be to change and I'm trying to figure out how. In my case an A3 300dpi did only 20 passes and too much noise even setting 3.5% noise
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It doesn't matter if it's an animation or not. With LODs, you save lots and lots of memory.
You don't need R19 or a tree generator for that, just a low poly version of the plants which you can create.
Then keyframe the appearance of the high/low-poly geometry or use xpresso to automate that based on distance.
You can also render the house and the plants in separate renders. and compose them later. (use placeholders to cast shadows onto those objects)
Oh ok, i see. Have no idea how to do it, but i understand what you mean
If you want, I could put together a guide, when i have the time.
I don't know if you have R19, if not, there are some easy to use free tools out there which can do the same job.
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If you want, I could put together a guide, when i have the time.
I don't know if you have R19, if not, there are some easy to use free tools out there which can do the same job.
yes that will always be very helpful! No on R18 :)
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Ok, let's do it quick 'n' dirty!
First of all, I won't go into detail how the external applications work. They're easy to use and you will find lots of documentation, videos, tutorials with a google search. I'll just concentrate on creating a lower level of detail model.
If you don't already have it, you should download Xnormal (http://www.xnormal.net/) and Instant Meshes (https://github.com/wjakob/instant-meshes). The latter is more optional but if you want a cleaner topology, get that too. Xnormal is a must have and I'll just concentrate on that.
Inside C4D:
Let's assume you have a High-poly mesh.(pic 1) It should be properly UV mapped, no overlaps, flattened.
Make sure it's in the center at 0,0,0(same with rotation) and export that mesh as an OBJ file. (you can take the original file if it's done properly)
Add a polygon reduction modifier/deformer to your object and set the % amount to how many polygons you want your mesh to be decreased by.
The settings can be mostly set to their defaults. We're creating a lower LOD object and it doesn't have to win a pageant. The slight differences won't be visible in the distance.
When you're happy with the result, convert the current state to a new object.(pic 2 -80% decreased & untriangulated) Check the UV maps. Sometimes the resulting Map is fine, sometimes you have to create a new one. If you have to create a new one, you don't have to do much, just make sure that the UV map is clean. The island's positions don't matter here. Export that mesh too.
You can add a base map for both objects and compare the result.(pic 3-high poly mesh)(pic 4 decimated version with same material applied)
Start Xnormal:
Load the exported Highpoly object into the high poly tab and do the same with the decimated version in the low poly tab.
If you have a map, such as a base map, then go to the high poly tab, select your object and load in the "base texture". This works for pretty much all kinds of maps. Diffuse, specular, roughness etc.
Just don't add AO, bump maps as they are going to be baked anyway.
Normal maps are the exclusion but for this example, you should only load the diffuse texture.
In the baking settings, set what types of maps you want to render and set the desired resolution, which should be smaller than the original of course.
Typically, The base texture, the normal map and height map, but you can add more types if you need them. You can also set the padding size for the soon to be generated maps, depending on your low poly object's UV layout.
For this example, I've left everything at default values. You can also choose a renderer like one of the GPU renderers which are quicker but don't support all types of maps. The default bucket renderer is fine. The textures won't be large and it won't take more than a few seconds.
Click on the generate button and let the thing do its job.
The maps might look weird, without structure. doesn't matter, it won't be visible in the end.(pic 5 base map for the low poly object)
After the maps have been rendered, go back to C4D and apply the newly created maps to a new material to the low poly object.(pic 6 - lowpoly with new maps-base/normal, very similar look to the original in pic 3)
Even though we didn't care about proper settings, the result is very close to the original and it won't be noticeable when the new LOD object is farther away from the camera.
If you're doing animation, then you can create a Xpresso script. It just has to toggle the visibility of the high/low poly objects depending on the camera distance to the objects. A simple boole switch setup could do the job.
This is one of many ways to create LOD objects. Doesn't cost extra money for a specific application and the whole thing can be done in 3 minutes.
If the object is more complex, you have to adjust the parameters to get a bit of a cleaner look. But start with the shitty settings first and see if the result's enough for your purpose.
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cool!! Thanks Eddoron!