Chaos Corona Forum
Chaos Corona for 3ds Max => [Max] Daily Builds => Topic started by: TomG on 2023-10-25, 19:52:53
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The new Tile Map was added in today's daily. Share your results, share your feedback!
Please check this article covering the risks of using daily builds: Daily Builds FAQ (https://support.chaos.com/hc/en-us/articles/4528206493329)
If you are familiar with the daily builds and know how to use them, download the newest one here:
corona-11-3dsmax-daily-2023-10-25.exe (http://corona-11-3dsmax-daily-2023-10-25.exe)
Don't forget to take advantage of things like the multiple input/outputs so you can separately control color, bump, displacement, etc. all from the same TileMap. And of course make use of the new "by Tile id" option in the MappingRandomizer and the MultiMap.
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And a doodle from me as well, probably in contention for the weirdest camera angle of the year 2023.
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It seems Corona tiles is a map i didn't know i need. Thank you Corona team! I'm sure people will raise lots of suggestions how to enhance and improve it and here's one from me - i think blurring parameter is crucial for this map, especially when the map is used for displacement, those jagged edges doesn't look nice.
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I don't like how tiling behaves when switching between 0-1 and RW mapping. Why does size multiplier has to be converted to 1 when in RW mode? It makes unnecessary mess with tile width, height and gap when switching back to 0-1 mapping. I think it would be much better if the switching between modes would be handled exactly like it is done in native and Corona bitmaps. It's much simpler and less confusing.
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My applause to corona legion, you have done a great job with corona tilemap. It's awesome, thank you very much. Something like this was missing from too many years ago. The only drawback I can say is because there is no herringbone pattern. I know you can make customs, but do customs allow the diagonal tile?
Thank you
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And one more thing, would it be possible to add the "color 2" concept that have berconmaps? That is, being able to activate a gradient from the gap to the tile to make a smoother transition. Very useful to simulate dirt near the gap (with a dirt texture) or for bumps or displacements where the tile is convex. Once again, thank you very much for the work!
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sorry, one last thing. It would be possible to apply noise in the gap, but not within its texture but rather the distortion of the gap itself, just as happens in 3dsmax tile. It is useful for making rough gaps that have diferent thickness maybe because the tile deformation of an old wood for example, or such as the gaps between the formwork concrete plates.
In the same way as 3dsmax tile, the option to disable some random tile, as if the brick had fallen from the wall, would also be useful. Now I think that's all!
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sorry, one last thing. It would be possible to apply noise in the gap, but not within its texture but rather the distortion of the gap itself, just as happens in 3dsmax tile. It is useful for making rough gaps that have diferent thickness maybe because the tile deformation of an old wood for example, or such as the gaps between the formwork concrete plates.
In the same way as 3dsmax tile, the option to disable some random tile, as if the brick had fallen from the wall, would also be useful. Now I think that's all!
A feature like this (and more) is planned, so stay tuned.
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fooling around with procedural bricks
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Planar mapping + mapping randomizer + Corona tiles + Chaos scatter = pure awesomeness. Can't wait when edge blurring/beveling will be implemented. Also more shapes/patterns would be welcome, for example hexagonal tiles.
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great romullus!
could you explain me your setup on the scene with scatter?
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Thanks romullus, some nice tests there!
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great romullus!
could you explain me your setup on the scene with scatter?
That's actually very easy - you just plug tiles map with black tile and white gap colours into scatter's distribution mapping slot and it's done. Beware that currently you can't use that same tiles map that you've used for shading, because it will crash 3ds Max. Hopefully this will be fixed soon.
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Meanwhile another test. Turns out, unstuck tiles is not that hard to achieve, but dedicated option would be nice to have.
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You could also use MultiMap for this. :)
Update: I mean feed "broken" bitmaps into one multimap slot and "clean" bitmaps into another slot - then adjust frequencies as needed.
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great romullus!
could you explain me your setup on the scene with scatter?
That's actually very easy - you just plug tiles map with black tile and white gap colours into scatter's distribution mapping slot and it's done. Beware that currently you can't use that same tiles map that you've used for shading, because it will crash 3ds Max. Hopefully this will be fixed soon.
Thank you!
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You could also use MultiMap for this. :)
Update: I mean feed "broken" bitmaps into one multimap slot and "clean" bitmaps into another slot - then adjust frequencies as needed.
Yes maru, that's exactly how i did it, you can see multimap node in the middle of the graph that allows to control unstuck tiles number from 0 to 100% Unless you have something else in mind.
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For what do you use chaos scater? for grass?
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Correct, scatter was used for grass in the gaps between tiles, everything else is just material on a plane.
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You could also use MultiMap for this. :)
Update: I mean feed "broken" bitmaps into one multimap slot and "clean" bitmaps into another slot - then adjust frequencies as needed.
Yes maru, that's exactly how i did it, you can see multimap node in the middle of the graph that allows to control unstuck tiles number from 0 to 100% Unless you have something else in mind.
I was just thinking about a simpler setup like this. It could be useful to add multiple outputs to MultiMap!
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Yes, but your method is simpler just because you've used only base colour textures ;]
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This is ridiculously good! Glad you added it!
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Fully procedural garden path with Corona tiles.
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Fully procedural garden path with Corona tiles.
Nice, I had similar ideas as well :)
Don't you think that these specific case (spline like objects, paths etc.) is easier (and with more control?) achieved with pattern?
Randomizer can still work on it and you have better, more precise control over the tiles.
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Pattern is an option of course. I would argue if it's easier though. With the tiles map you can adjust everything procedurally - tiles pattern, gap width, gravel type. The pattern lets you do more for sure, but if you want to change anything, you need to modify pattern source by hand, which can take significant amount of time. I would say both methods have their pros and cons and it's nice to have to chose from :]
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Fully procedural garden path with Corona tiles.
Great idea by the way :).
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Pattern is an option of course. I would argue if it's easier though. With the tiles map you can adjust everything procedurally - tiles pattern, gap width, gravel type. The pattern lets you do more for sure, but if you want to change anything, you need to modify pattern source by hand, which can take significant amount of time. I would say both methods have their pros and cons and it's nice to have to chose from :]
Yes and no :) Tilemap gives more control over specifically tiles, but if you have a custom, say hexagon shaped or Voronoi like pattern (e.g. broken pieces), pattern modifier will be advantageous.
But I couldn't agree more - the best part is having 2 things to pick from, or even combine.
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tiles made with procedural gradient ramps + caustics :)
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Love that bokeh! New DOF highlight solver?
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Yes and no :) Tilemap gives more control over specifically tiles, but if you have a custom, say hexagon shaped or Voronoi like pattern (e.g. broken pieces), pattern modifier will be advantageous.
But I couldn't agree more - the best part is having 2 things to pick from, or even combine.
Yes of course, there are many things that tiles map can't do and the pattern is very nice alternative. One of those things is inability to set tile index order manually. Random tiles are nice, but very often you want to have certain pattern. I think this would greatly increase range of use cases for tiles map. Below are few simple examples of what would be possible to achieve and i'm hoping this could be quite easily implemented before final release.
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Good suggestions! +1 from me...
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To avoid potential disappointment, I can say that we are too close to release to add more functionality at this point. Do keep posting suggestions for features, but do be aware that these won't show up in Corona 11 when you post, but for future development. Thanks!
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Feature request: increasing/decreasing gap thickness does change total number of tiles per area which sometimes is desirable outcome, but there are situations when you want to keep constant tiles number and would prefer that gap thickness would eat into tiles width and height instead. I would love if we could have a checkbox that let you choose between these two behaviours.
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To avoid potential disappointment, I can say that we are too close to release to add more functionality at this point. Do keep posting suggestions for features, but do be aware that these won't show up in Corona 11 when you post, but for future development. Thanks!
Isn't this a bit too constrained? It's 2-3 weeks since the map is available for testing and it's already too close to release date to consider feedback. Why not make it the best Tile map there is and release at a later point?
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Because then people will be waiting 6 months, when there is something already usable that they could have access to in the meantime :)
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Probably my last exercise with Corona tiles. Love this tool. Last image is source texture that was used for the tiles.
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Adding a little bit (or not so little in this case) of randomization makes all the difference. And best thing about this setup is that everything is fully procedural.
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And here's few of my thoughts after playing with new additions to the tile map in the recent build:
- randomization needs exposed seed parameter
- i would like to see added random row offset.
- curve control for gap blurring would be super awesome to have. Flat bevels often look not quite natural
- how about an option to have straight corners chopping next to round ones? That would make possible to have hexagonal and octagonal tiles.
- more complex pattern modes, like honeycomb and herringbone would be beyond awesome!
- i was bit disappointed to find that new edge map does not work with the tiles. Would be nice if it could, but there's nothing wrong with using good old gradient ramp too.
All in all, Corona tiles is already super duper tool. I'm sure it will make many artists happy. Thank you Corona team! :]
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thats so cool how was that done?
Adding a little bit (or not so little in this case) of randomization makes all the difference. And best thing about this setup is that everything is fully procedural.
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I think it will be easier if i upload the scene instead of trying to explain how it's done. The shader setup might look a bit complicated at first glance, but i tried to name all the major maps, so it shouldn't be very difficult to figure out what's going on. All the assets has been replaced with the CC0 licensed ones, so feel free to use the scene as you want.
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so nice of you man thanks so much... much appreciated.
I think it will be easier if i upload the scene instead of trying to explain how it's done. The shader setup might look a bit complicated at first glance, but i tried to name all the major maps, so it shouldn't be very difficult to figure out what's going on. All the assets has been replaced with the CC0 licensed ones, so feel free to use the scene as you want.
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You're welcome!
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Would it be possible to add a similar distortion effect for CoronaWire as you did for the tiles? That could help a little from time to time
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Fully procedural garden path with Corona tiles.
Would you please be able to upload this scene for us to try out?
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I'll see if i can do this, but if i recall correctly it uses not very practical method, but more like a proof of concept.
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Fully procedural garden path with Corona tiles.
Would you please be able to upload this scene for us to try out?
I managed to significantly simplify the setup, previously it was unnecessary complicated. With the addition of conform modifier in Max 2024.2 update, the setup should remain fully procedural even on arbitrary shaped terrain (didn't test that myself yet).
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I think that the blur effect of the gap does not succeed in applying a bump to the edges of the tile. The problem is that as it is now, the gap and the tile are born from the same color, and to apply the bump correctly they should have different heights. In other words, we should be able to activate something like a gradient ramp on the edges of the tile, to be able to apply a bump only to the tile that starts from a medium gray, unlike the gap area that starts from a total black. This would be to achieve the bulging effect of the tile, as in a cobblestone. It would be the solution that bercon uses by applying a third step color between gap and tile, which only mixes with the tile in the form of a gradient and you can choose the color from which it starts. Would it be possible to do something like that? but once I had to use bercon just for that reason. Thank you so much
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Maybe is more easy to make Edgemap compatible with tilemap, because now its not working.
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Fully procedural garden path with Corona tiles.
Would you please be able to upload this scene for us to try out?
I managed to significantly simplify the setup, previously it was unnecessary complicated. With the addition of conform modifier in Max 2024.2 update, the setup should remain fully procedural even on arbitrary shaped terrain (didn't test that myself yet).
thank you so much for putting that together!
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You're welcome!
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Feature request: add support for Corona edge in Corona tiles for weathering and other effects. Gradient ramp works, but only in limited scenarios.
When tiles are square, gradient ramp works nicely in box mode.
(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41252.0;attach=190802;image)
When tiles proportions significantly differs from square, gradient ramp is noticeably stretched.
(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41252.0;attach=190804;image)
This can be fixed by combining two separate gradient ramp maps in linear mode. Not very convenient to setup and control, but it works.
(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41252.0;attach=190806;image)
When tiles has big variation in length, gradient ramp can't help with that. Corona edge map with its distance dependant on scene units and not tile's proportions would have no problems with that.
(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41252.0;attach=190808;image)
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I'm 100% agree. We need a way to make the displacement or bump of a coblstone for example. The Gradient ramp and Coronaedge dont works because they got a cross at the vertex that makes the displacement not so smooth.
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The Gradient ramp and Coronaedge dont works because they got a cross at the vertex that makes the displacement not so smooth.
You can make gradient ramp to produce more smooth result (see attached image and example scene), but i agree with you, this sharp corner doesn't look sexy in Corona edge.
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Is it possible to have independent values for the gap?
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Feature request: add support for Corona edge in Corona tiles for weathering and other effects. Gradient ramp works, but only in limited scenarios.
We have logged this feature request in our system to be further reviewed by our devs.
(Internal ID=1257961406)
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That does not make any sense to me. Corona edge is working on geometry, not on UVWs/tiles. Additionally, the output is ugly like gradient ramp currently :) But maybe there is another solution.
When tiles proportions significantly differs from square, gradient ramp is noticeably stretched.
You could use the same tiles map with b/w setting and gap blur - looks similar to gradient ramp but stays absolute in distance. Maybe piped through any curve operator (output map / CoronaColorCorrect etc.) to further shape the gradient. Yes, a map able to create absolute borders in a tile would be great. Afaik not "even" BerconTiles/Maps are able to do something similar.
Good Luck
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You could use the same tiles map with b/w setting and gap blur - looks similar to gradient ramp but stays absolute in distance. Maybe piped through any curve operator (output map / CoronaColorCorrect etc.) to further shape the gradient. Yes, a map able to create absolute borders in a tile would be great. Afaik not "even" BerconTiles/Maps are able to do something similar.
The idea is to have constant width gradient independent from gap bump/displacement.
Additionally, the output is ugly like gradient ramp currently :) But maybe there is another solution.
I think this could be easily fixed by the devs, maybe they need just a little bit of convincing, i mean, it's possible replicate this ugly spike with two gradient ramp maps, but it's also possible to have nice corner with the same maps, just by changing their blending mode.
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The idea is to have constant width gradient independent from gap bump/displacement.
Yes, I just wanted to point out, that you can get something similiar like using your combined gradient ramp approach by using the CoronaTile map itself more easily. Still it suffers from the corner edges (as blended gradient ramp in box mode does) but it is not distorted by scaling. And the maps have to be wired to be able to change one and get the proper gradient automatically - not convenient but works.
Good Luck
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Personally I preffer to use BerconTiles but this new map its something that needed to be done, this first take its really good, I think that there are some tools that are missing that could help:
-Random Gap W & H size
-Random texture rotation
-Flip texture H & V
-Different shapes for Gap Blur
What I dont understand its, since the first time I tried Corona in v4, BerconTiles seemed to be incompatible (at least this is what the VFB says), but the ressults doesnt seem to be failing, could someone elaborate on this?
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What I dont understand its, since the first time I tried Corona in v4, BerconTiles seemed to be incompatible (at least this is what the VFB says), but the ressults doesnt seem to be failing, could someone elaborate on this?
The error message is a bit missleading. It's just about the fact that you can easily get it to crash, especially if you have "show in viewport" activated on the material using it. But it works flawlessly (there has been even a fix for some -if not all- Corona maps a while ago to work properly with BerconTile - it did not made it into the changelogs for some reason though).
Good Luck
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Yes, I just wanted to point out, that you can get something similiar like using your combined gradient ramp approach by using the CoronaTile map itself more easily. Still it suffers from the corner edges (as blended gradient ramp in box mode does) but it is not distorted by scaling. And the maps have to be wired to be able to change one and get the proper gradient automatically - not convenient but works.
Ah, i see. I guess i'm too spoiled by convenience of multiple inputs, the idea to use several separate tile maps didn't even cross my mind. Thanks!
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Hello!
I just played a bit with CornaTile and I have a few things to mention that I believe some adjustment/fixing
1. When adding a gap distortion map, it will only react to the original mapping of the CoronaTileMap and, for some reason, ignore mapping channels.
So you can't add an independent distortion map to your grout.
2. Corner Radius should also have a "Chamfer" option to create sharp cuts \ / I think a curve would be best here.
- If the Chamfer is big enough it would be neat to introduce a third color with the ability to add the rhombus tile.
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nevermind. solved.
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Hi
Is it possible to create this tile effect using the new CoronaTileMap feature?
See image below.
(https://www.beaumont-tiles.com.au/media/catalog/product/i/_/i_1222049_h_b514a1d84b_s_c6f46_t_tile_faces_image.png?optimize=medium&fit=bounds&height=500&width=500&canvas=500:500)
Hi,
Yes, it is absolutely possible and should not take much effort for get it.
It will be good to understand if the tiles are indented or out-dented, it is not quite clear from the image.
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No man, its not possible with only one tilemap. You need two tilemaps, the econd one is to overlay the blur. And It does not work correctly in the blur corners, it makes straight lines
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Personally I preffer to use BerconTiles but this new map its something that needed to be done, this first take its really good, I think that there are some tools that are missing that could help:
-Random Gap W & H size
-Random texture rotation
-Flip texture H & V
-Different shapes for Gap Blur
What I dont understand its, since the first time I tried Corona in v4, BerconTiles seemed to be incompatible (at least this is what the VFB says), but the ressults doesnt seem to be failing, could someone elaborate on this?
So far as i understand and tested it, you can put a corona mapping randomization between c_multimap and C_tilemap to tweak the random rotation etc... probably flipping would be nice. flipping wouuld work too with negative to positive scale in c_mappingrandomization
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Just a minor thing - I just noticed when playing with tiles and having interactive rendering running.
When altering the camera during running IR the displacement values are not updated outside the previous viewable area. Just when you alter some values somewhere in the material, or start IR all over that the new viewable areas get updated.
Is it a technical reason with displacement calculation in IR?
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Is it a technical reason with displacement calculation in IR?
Displacement would have to be calculated at every viewport change, the "I" from IR would be lost :) But you can use this one:
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=36556.0
It basically does something similar like changing some material as you mentioned and updates displacement without reparsing the scene while limiting itself to materials with enabled displacement.
Good Luck
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Is it a technical reason with displacement calculation in IR?
Displacement would have to be calculated at every viewport change, the "I" from IR would be lost :) But you can use this one:
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=36556.0
It basically does something similar like changing some material as you mentioned and updates displacement without reparsing the scene while limiting itself to materials with enabled displacement.
Good Luck
Thnaks... i figured it might been a technical reasons behind it.
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I just tested out this feature. I always use substance designer for this type of work. It's ok for really basic stuff. But for more control of the height map details, diffuse work etc and speed, substance all day. Also would be good to be able to convert the height map to a normal map so you can add fine details to keep the displacement light. Attached are some basic tests.
Would be great if the corona team spent some more time on the cloud system.
Cheers
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Probably my last exercise with Corona tiles. Love this tool. Last image is source texture that was used for the tiles.
how do you calculate de randomization, each tiles has different part of the texture? it blends perfectly!
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It doesn't blend perfectly. If you look closely at close-up image, you can see that there's visible seams in the mortar. Especially visible in the upper right corner, where bricks has distinctly different colour.
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Hi!
Thats very simple setup and I would like to archive steel patterns with convex lines in "gaps"
How to archive smooth displacement in gaps in this case?
I`ve tried also with Subdividion Quality in CoronaDisplacementModidier but it is only a bit better.
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Try to introduce small amount of gap blur - should help with displacement quality significantly.
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OK thanks!
I found out that proper Subdividion Quality in CoronaDisplacementModidier settings can improve this a lot too.
By the way I use MultiMap for reflection differences between tiles. It works great!
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Love this feature, hope it continues to mature.
As said by others a random mirror option would be really handy and hopefully one of the easier requests.
Ultimately a full tile pattern design editor would be fantastic and such a time saver. I really like how responsive it already is switching between the pre set patterns.
This would be my number one feature request for R12 personally.
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Is it right that the tiler dosnt work with bump? Doesnt work for me but the same node does work with displacement. Seem like a strange omission, so not sure whats wrong? Just a a basic white tile with a black grout. Tried adding a blur to help but its flat as a pancake. Displacment works fine.
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Is it right that the tiler dosnt work with bump? Doesnt work for me but the same node does work with displacement. Seem like a strange omission, so not sure whats wrong? Just a a basic white tile with a black grout. Tried adding a blur to help but its flat as a pancake. Displacment works fine.
Hi,
This is known and has been discussed here:
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=41757.msg220610#msg220610
For now, you can use CoronaBumpConverter to make it work.
Hope this helps.
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Is it right that the tiler dosnt work with bump? Doesnt work for me but the same node does work with displacement. Seem like a strange omission, so not sure whats wrong? Just a a basic white tile with a black grout. Tried adding a blur to help but its flat as a pancake. Displacment works fine.
Hi,
This is known and has been discussed here:
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=41757.msg220610#msg220610
For now, you can use CoronaBumpConverter to make it work.
Hope this helps.
Thanks, sorry I missed that.
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Absolutely love this feature.
Is there a chance to implement herringbone, chevron, hexagonal and similiar patterns ?
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The Gradient ramp and Coronaedge dont works because they got a cross at the vertex that makes the displacement not so smooth.
You can make gradient ramp to produce more smooth result (see attached image and example scene), but i agree with you, this sharp corner doesn't look sexy in Corona edge.
Hey, any improvement to get this skill only usinf tilemap? some button to make square gradient close the gap, inside the tilemap shader, to aovid the work of putting two linear gradients mixed every time??
thanks!