Which Monitor is best?

[Nejc Kilar]

There is indeed auto-color management with latest Windows 11 update, or it's been there since January if you're on fast-track. I haven't tested it as I don't run these builds with it yet.
It's called..."auto-color management". https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/auto-color-management-in-windows-11-64a4de7f-9c93-43ec-bdf1-3b12ffa0870b

If not that, then there are few more things to consider:
- Do you have wide-gamut Display and are you running wide-gamut mode in OSD? (Native, or DCI-P3/AdobeRGB). Unless you have monitor that greatly exceeds sRGB color gamut, you will not see noticeable color shift. This shift would also be strongest in Red tones.
 ICC profile merely interprets color in OS, it runs on top of what the monitor's OSD is set to. That's why ICC is always paired to specific monitor mode, and if you switch it's not longer applicable. So for wide-gamut environment, you would run Native or specific wide-gamut mode in OSD, and then calibrate after that to ICC which matches the desired color-space. The possible working combination go from higher to lower (so Wide-Gamut to Low-gamut) or equal to equal (HG to HG or LG to LG).
- What do you mean "make sure the ICC profile is set", Working Space ? When you import file, you can convert to profile (which should be default settings if you don't get asked), or assign profile (which is meant to interpret colors when profile is missing). Since I am not on 2025 with OCIO, my 3dsMax (or Corona VFB for that matter) doesn't save with any color-profile attached to file formats.
- Your file (render) should be converted to space you intend to work in and the working space should like-wise be set to generic (non-device specific) color-space (sRGB or P3/AdobeRGB/.. for Wide-gamut. If you load your monitor ICC, you will disable color-management.


- If you want to be sure, set working environment in Photoshop to sRGB (that is default). On importing render, set the mode to "convert". On opening, convert the render to sRGB color-space. Make sure the auto-mode in Window is disabled if by any chance this latest update is on. And only after that, compare 3dsMax Corona VFB and your opened render.

I don't understand right now 100perc. which exact combination you're doing, but in my opinion you most probably negated color-management and are seeing incorrect (but identical) colors in both 3dsMax and PS. That's actually quite easy scenario to achieve. Seeing identical colors doesn't mean you have correct color-managed workflow pipeline.

It doesn't matter though, I can guarantee you 3dsMax until 2025 simply isn't color-managed, it can load Gamma 2.2 and that's about it. With the OLED I have right now, single-toggle of sRGB in NoVideo tool shows almost 20perc. perceptible difference in red saturation, matching the srgb coverage of WOLED panels (125perc. QD-OLED up to 150perc. even)

Yas so I'm definitely a newbie for when it comes to ICCs and managing this stuff (thank you for getting into it with me) but nonetheless - I do think it might work better in the latest W11 build across all apps?

I do have a wide-ish gamut display that covers 90% of the Adobe gamut and roughly 70% of Rec 2020 which naturally makes the everyday "web" colors quite saturated if I don't "clamp" it back to sRGB using the display's OSD. Suffice it to say though, for my line of work at least, I am predominantly concerned about the sRGB output so the display is set to hardware clamp to sRGB.

I'm trying to validate what kind of an effect the ICC profile has and with all of what you've mentioned above I'm not sure how it could be wrong.

- With the ICC profile loaded into Windows via Color Management, the 3ds Max / C4D VFB image looks the same (side by side) to the one in Photoshop where I can set the RGB working space to the ICC profile.
- If I have the ICC profile loaded in Windows and in Photoshop I select the standard sRGB profile (the one that comes with Windows by default) then the two images don't match.
- If I try to validate the colors the ICC profile produces with my xRite i1 Display Pro, then the average dE is 0.4 with the highest being 0.8 . I do this via Calibrite where I load the ICC profile into the app and have it do validation.

I could be missing something here though.

[Basshunter]

I mean, these 4K 32"OLEDs came just this year, it's novelty. 1-2 years and it will be mainstream and we'll see artist or professional oriented models as well. (like Asus ProArt instead of Asus ROG, and LG UltraFine, Dell Ultrasharp, etc..).

I hope that will be the case.

Can I ask for your opinion on what you consider the "best" monitors for our kind of work within a $500 budget? I'm currently using a Dell U2723QE, and I'm wondering if there's anything significantly better at a similar price point.

[Juraj]

There is indeed auto-color management with latest Windows 11 update, or it's been there since January if you're on fast-track. I haven't tested it as I don't run these builds with it yet.
It's called..."auto-color management". https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/auto-color-management-in-windows-11-64a4de7f-9c93-43ec-bdf1-3b12ffa0870b

If not that, then there are few more things to consider:
- Do you have wide-gamut Display and are you running wide-gamut mode in OSD? (Native, or DCI-P3/AdobeRGB). Unless you have monitor that greatly exceeds sRGB color gamut, you will not see noticeable color shift. This shift would also be strongest in Red tones.
 ICC profile merely interprets color in OS, it runs on top of what the monitor's OSD is set to. That's why ICC is always paired to specific monitor mode, and if you switch it's not longer applicable. So for wide-gamut environment, you would run Native or specific wide-gamut mode in OSD, and then calibrate after that to ICC which matches the desired color-space. The possible working combination go from higher to lower (so Wide-Gamut to Low-gamut) or equal to equal (HG to HG or LG to LG).
- What do you mean "make sure the ICC profile is set", Working Space ? When you import file, you can convert to profile (which should be default settings if you don't get asked), or assign profile (which is meant to interpret colors when profile is missing). Since I am not on 2025 with OCIO, my 3dsMax (or Corona VFB for that matter) doesn't save with any color-profile attached to file formats.
- Your file (render) should be converted to space you intend to work in and the working space should like-wise be set to generic (non-device specific) color-space (sRGB or P3/AdobeRGB/.. for Wide-gamut. If you load your monitor ICC, you will disable color-management.


- If you want to be sure, set working environment in Photoshop to sRGB (that is default). On importing render, set the mode to "convert". On opening, convert the render to sRGB color-space. Make sure the auto-mode in Window is disabled if by any chance this latest update is on. And only after that, compare 3dsMax Corona VFB and your opened render.

I don't understand right now 100perc. which exact combination you're doing, but in my opinion you most probably negated color-management and are seeing incorrect (but identical) colors in both 3dsMax and PS. That's actually quite easy scenario to achieve. Seeing identical colors doesn't mean you have correct color-managed workflow pipeline.

It doesn't matter though, I can guarantee you 3dsMax until 2025 simply isn't color-managed, it can load Gamma 2.2 and that's about it. With the OLED I have right now, single-toggle of sRGB in NoVideo tool shows almost 20perc. perceptible difference in red saturation, matching the srgb coverage of WOLED panels (125perc. QD-OLED up to 150perc. even)

Yas so I'm definitely a newbie for when it comes to ICCs and managing this stuff (thank you for getting into it with me) but nonetheless - I do think it might work better in the latest W11 build across all apps?

I do have a wide-ish gamut display that covers 90% of the Adobe gamut and roughly 70% of Rec 2020 which naturally makes the everyday "web" colors quite saturated if I don't "clamp" it back to sRGB using the display's OSD. Suffice it to say though, for my line of work at least, I am predominantly concerned about the sRGB output so the display is set to hardware clamp to sRGB.

I'm trying to validate what kind of an effect the ICC profile has and with all of what you've mentioned above I'm not sure how it could be wrong.

- With the ICC profile loaded into Windows via Color Management, the 3ds Max / C4D VFB image looks the same (side by side) to the one in Photoshop where I can set the RGB working space to the ICC profile.
- If I have the ICC profile loaded in Windows and in Photoshop I select the standard sRGB profile (the one that comes with Windows by default) then the two images don't match.
- If I try to validate the colors the ICC profile produces with my xRite i1 Display Pro, then the average dE is 0.4 with the highest being 0.8 . I do this via Calibrite where I load the ICC profile into the app and have it do validation.

I could be missing something here though.

OK, super simple:

- You're not meant to have your ICC profile in Photoshop as working space (or for that matter, embedded in any image). Your display profile is for mapping output, not your working space. Working space should be device-agnostic (can be the highest gamut possible but doesn't matter much since PS automatically makes calculations in CIELAB). This is effectively cancelling any color-management.

[Juraj]

I mean, these 4K 32"OLEDs came just this year, it's novelty. 1-2 years and it will be mainstream and we'll see artist or professional oriented models as well. (like Asus ProArt instead of Asus ROG, and LG UltraFine, Dell Ultrasharp, etc..).

I hope that will be the case.

Can I ask for your opinion on what you consider the "best" monitors for our kind of work within a $500 budget? I'm currently using a Dell U2723QE, and I'm wondering if there's anything significantly better at a similar price point.

No, nothing. For 500 USD, the U2723QE is as good as it gets for work. IPS-Black panels (2000:1, so 20perc. better than any IPS panel), decent calibration because it's Dell Ultrasharp range, decent coating (some find it too glossy I think it's nice compromise for image clarity between matte and glossy), nice clean minimalist design.

That's about it. Nothing better on horizon, the only upgrade path for work from this is OLED.