Author Topic: New workhorse: tips welcome!  (Read 3732 times)

2018-08-28, 11:03:13

Bienez

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
'Sup folks?!

After years of working on a Mac it's finally time to invest in a proper CG workhorse. The problem though, is that I know absolutely nothing about this kind of stuff. I don't even know where to start looking when it comes to assembling my own machine. Hence this post.

My budget is around 4000-4500 Euro. Would this be enough to build a reasonably well station? It should be 'optimized' for Max + Corona (I come from a C4D background).

It would be great if I could get some help here while starting this 'project'. So any tips are more than welcome.

Cheerz,
J.

2018-08-28, 11:50:40
Reply #1

Juraj

  • Moderator
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 4815
    • View Profile
    • studio website
In my opinion, right now, the latest AMD 2990WX has surpassed all the available off-the-shelf xeons (even the relatively cheaper OEM/ES Xeons on Ebay, source of which considerably dried out in recent year) in both price/performance ratio as well has having competitive performance advantage unless you go for the top tier xeons.

I will finish 4k workstation this week, just waiting for mainboard which will be sent today, so I hope to have it ready by end of the week.

4000 Euro right now gets you following for example:

AMD 2990WX for ultimate multithreaded performance. Disregard reviews by mainstream media, multithreaded is the only thing that matters for Corona rendering, everything else is secondary. The single-core performance difference is barely noticeable in production.
MSI MEG x399 Creation. This motherboard looks sadly ridiculous, it's workstation motherboard that looks like it was made for Fortnite/PUBG pro-gamers. But it's now the only MB which can sustain enough power for 32core 2990WX for decent overclock.
64GB in 4x16GB module so that you can upgrade to 128GB in future.
Top-grade GPU. Right now, GTX 1080ti, or waiting another month for RTX 2080. The additional features of RTX will not matter much unless you plan to use real-time as well (for example Unreal, or some of the latest Vray side-projects).
1000W+ solid PSU. Seasonic Prime or some other top-grade model from reputable brand. But seriously, Seasonic, why even consider anything else ? That's like buying Toyota if you can buy BMW.
Good ventilated minimal looking case. Fractal Define R6. Or something else on personal taste.
Air or Water AIO cooling. Air: Right now the top grade CPU cooler is barely available, it's Thermalight Silver Arrow TR4. Apparently it will be available in October. Otherwise Noctua NH-U14 TR4. Water AIO Enermax Liqtech 360 II (RGB). Do wait for this second revision unless you want catastrophe to happen ;- ).
PCI-E SSD like 1TB Samsung 960 Evo.

If you have 5000 Euros you can do following more or less useful upgrades:

128GB Memory from get-go. The price is obscene though.
Wait for RTX 2080ti if you plan to get serious with real-time work, or are avid gamer. Price is even more obscene for what you get.
Custom water loop (Full nickel plate from EKWB, 360rad, basic plastic tubing, pump+reservoir combo + 3 fans start at 500 Euros, just checked the price week ago. 6 fans for push/pull will get the price to 560 Euros.) for best overclocking. But really, the difference will be super minor unless you beef it up to something like double radiator ( 800 euro for whole loop ).

Buy Windows10 "Enterprise" from eBay, it's fully legal in European union for reselling OEM licences. Current Enterprise contains the additional features and support from obscure Windows10 "Workstation" version (don't confuse with standard "Pro" or "Home" version).
It won't make drastic difference but it's slightly better choice and since price for OEM is the same, no reason to go with standard shelf version of Windows.

I will be making more in-depth blog on build over the next weekend.
Please follow my new Instagram for latest projects, tips&tricks, short video tutorials and free models
Behance  Probably best updated portfolio of my work
lysfaere.com Please check the new stuff!

2018-08-28, 13:40:24
Reply #2

Noah45

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 437
  • press *1
    • View Profile
Thanks for HW checklist , Juraj. I'll be interested in how much you can up the % from OC'ing.
Retail Illustrator  (for ever' 80's )
3DMax 2020/Corona Version: 6DB

2018-08-28, 13:55:22
Reply #3

Juraj

  • Moderator
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 4815
    • View Profile
    • studio website
Thanks for HW checklist , Juraj. I'll be interested in how much you can up the % from OC'ing.

Probably not much, right now I only have the Noctua UH14 TR4 waiting. I am trying to get the much bigger Silver Arrow TR4, one obscure e-shop is trying to get me copy soon. Will see how that will pan out.
Enermax LiqTech II (second gen with RGB but better internals) is nowhere in sight available.

Not feeling comfortable paying for custom loop at the moment.
Please follow my new Instagram for latest projects, tips&tricks, short video tutorials and free models
Behance  Probably best updated portfolio of my work
lysfaere.com Please check the new stuff!

2018-08-28, 16:03:28
Reply #4

Nejc Kilar

  • Corona Team
  • Active Users
  • ****
  • Posts: 1333
    • View Profile
    • My personal website
I really don't want to steal this thread but I do wonder Juraj can you share any of the reputable W10 Enterprise sellers on Ebay?

As far as the build Juraj proposed goes... I totally agree with the sentiment about the 2990WX. There isn't a better option for rendering out there unless you are willing to spend some really weird amounts of money.
Nejc Kilar | chaos-corona.com
Educational Content Creator | contact us

2018-08-29, 19:27:55
Reply #5

Bienez

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Awesome & extremely informative reply, Juraj!! Thank you very much for that!!

Though a lot - if not everything - you mentioned is kinda Chinese to me, I'm looking forward to indulge myself into the subject matter. I'm sure a lot of questions are still to come from my end, hehe.

Apart from a few items, judging from your post it seems that it's maybe better to wait an extra month or so before finalizing my workstation, since it seems that some sweet stuff will hit the market soon.

Already some questions though:

- A quick Google search learns me that there are different versions of those RTX 2080's coming up, ranging from 900-1400 Euro. What would be the specific type I'm looking for? Same goes for the mentioned GTX 1080ti.
- I bet this must be the most n00bish question I have yet asked, but if I assemble my own machine I reckon it's possible to add multiple GPU cards, right? :D
- Where do you buy all of this stuff? Is there one store that has it all, or is it better to shop around (budget wise?)
- You added a 'Useful 5000 Euro Upgrade' section to your post. What would you choose if you could only pick 1 (and why)? 128 Ram upgrade, RTX 2080, or custon water loop?

Thanks again!!

Cheerz,
J.

2018-08-29, 19:49:22
Reply #6

Juraj

  • Moderator
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 4815
    • View Profile
    • studio website
-Where I buy: This depend how big I estimate will be the chance I need to warranty the item. For certain items, like LCD displays, the chance is big and it's not easy to send massive 20kg box and pay for courier to abroad. For this reason such items I buy locally. I have this kind of e-shop here which also has massive drop-off brick&stone sort of shop. So when I need to quickly warranty something, I just drive 5 minutes by car and do it personally. This often costs me certain premium. If comfort of mind is important for you, I would buy everything locally this way.

-If I want to get something cheaper, or the item is obscure or niche, I shop at e-shop aggregators like Geizhals.eu. I needed specific memory set and I didn't want to pay 900 for it at local e-shops, so I found where I can get it for 700 from Germany.
-I do shop a lot from Amazon too but only if the price is right. These are often the same e-shops as above, but with added security layer from Amazon.

-Waiting right now might be good idea. This was rushed start and majority of items are simply not available. Motherboards, CPU coolers are very sparse. The latest nVidias will likewise release next month and following.

-You can add up to four GPUs for this platform. But this is only if you decide to go GPU-rendering, for example Vray-GPU. Vray does seem to have a lot of stuff prepared for the upcoming generation to get as much potential from the latest card as possible.
-Corona currently uses GPU only for single task, instant denoising for previews by nVidia Optix algorithm.

-When it comes to all those brands and models for cards, I don't think anyone can answer ultimately which one is the best :- ). For me, it's the cheapest you buy. No reason to pay for fancy heatsinks and tiny factory overclocks. I don't have any particular favourite brand or model.

-If I had money to burn, I would buy most memory if I were to stick with Corona. Corona is super memory hungry, and if I want to keep opened two scenes at same time, bunch of big high-res Photoshops, run simulations, photogrammetry, etc.. memory is invaluable.
-Water loop will give you additional 10perc. of perfomance and if you go for the big one (double radiator), then both 10perc. more performance as well as very silent operation. This is good idea only if you plan to stick with CPU renderer like Corona. Otherwise it's wasted.

-Difference between current 1080ti (ideal to buy at 500 second hand or 600 brand new euro) vs 2080 at 800 euro vs 2080ti at 1200+ euro is how much you care for real-time tasks. If you outside of Corona rendering also do a lot of Unreal Engine 4, or plan to try some of the GPU rendering in future, it's better to go for the best.
Otherwise stick to lower model as softwares like 3dsMax, Adobe Suite (photoshop, lightroom, premiere,etc..) use very little and ineffectively GPU power. But don't go lower than 1080ti at this moment as I found out lot of softwares with viewports (like 3dsMax) start to struggle if you run multiple high-res displays (I run 3x4k panels).



« Last Edit: 2018-08-29, 20:02:53 by Juraj Talcik »
Please follow my new Instagram for latest projects, tips&tricks, short video tutorials and free models
Behance  Probably best updated portfolio of my work
lysfaere.com Please check the new stuff!

2018-08-29, 20:02:41
Reply #7

iancamarillo

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 282
    • View Profile
But don't go lower than 1080ti at this moment as I found out lot of softwares with viewports (like 3dsMax) start to struggle if you run multiple high-res displays (I run 3x4k panels).

I couldn't run 2 dell 28" 4ks on my 1080ti without a choppy slate editor navigation or other UI issues like command panel not refreshing fast enough. And I wanted to add another monitor. So I got 2 2k monitors and 1 4k and it seems much faster. I'm wondering if the new quadros might be noticeably faster than the new geforces if you run 3 4k monitors.

2018-08-29, 20:11:09
Reply #8

Juraj

  • Moderator
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 4815
    • View Profile
    • studio website
But don't go lower than 1080ti at this moment as I found out lot of softwares with viewports (like 3dsMax) start to struggle if you run multiple high-res displays (I run 3x4k panels).

I couldn't run 2 dell 28" 4ks on my 1080ti without a choppy slate editor navigation or other UI issues like command panel not refreshing fast enough. And I wanted to add another monitor. So I got 2 2k monitors and 1 4k and it seems much faster. I'm wondering if the new quadros might be noticeably faster than the new geforces if you run 3 4k monitors.

I don't think Quadro would help here as 3dsMax is now running on DirectX. Also, I've been told the slow UI is big part 3dsMax issue. I've been trying to get people to test for me if 2019 version isn't better in this regard, esp. since it introduced proper scaling on high dpi panels.
I am still on 2016. Strangely enough, there is something in gpu setup that must affect this as the lag is much more noticeable in Veronika's PC although we have pretty much identical setup (outside of GPUs, 1070 and Maxwell Titan, both with equal performance).

Tiny thing, but you know how everything helps, activate "Ultimate performance mode" in power settings. You need to unhide it by CMD, but it's easy to google out the command for this. It helps with certain microlag and stutter.

I wonder how adding second card of any sort would help.
Please follow my new Instagram for latest projects, tips&tricks, short video tutorials and free models
Behance  Probably best updated portfolio of my work
lysfaere.com Please check the new stuff!