Author Topic: Threadripper & Ryzen only builds (3rd Gen starts on page 50)  (Read 226177 times)

2020-07-29, 20:44:17
Reply #1170

skiny75

  • Primary Certified Instructor
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Hi Juraj and all the other guys,

I have read all the posts from 50-78 page. Thanks a lot for all the information, I did not know so much.
I arrived at conclusion to configure this AMD workstation, but before to order I would like to check if everything is fine.

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3990X
Gigabyte TRX40 DESIGNARE
HyperX FURY - DDR4
128 GB: 4 x 32 GB - DIMM 288-PIN - 3200 MHz / PC4-25600 - CL16 - 1.35 V - unbuffered - non-ECC
GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER WINDFORCE OC or maybe a RTX2080Ti( I know that you suggest to buy a 2nd hand 1080ti, but for me it's more convenient to buy new(I have warranty and discount on taxes)
Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB - Solid state drive
Samsung 860 EVO 2TB - Solid state drive
Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum 1300 - Power supply
Phanteks Enthoo Pro SE Tempered Glass - Full tower
For the CPU Cooler I propose the Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 as you suggest, the seller pushed me to Be quiet! Dark Rock PRO TR4.  I think i will keep the Noctua. I see that almost everybody here has it.

I would really appreciate if Juraj  (I can immagine you are  busy or on holidays) or somebody else can confirm or suggest this configuration.
Thanks a lot in advance 



2020-07-29, 23:22:05
Reply #1171

rubensabou

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
I mean...you can just run the benchmark 20 times and the result for 3990X will be anywhere from 17 to 20 seconds. It just isn't a good benchmark at all, outside of all the randomness introduced by actual voltage, current, room temperature, OS overhead...

I can't believe people get hang-up on something like this :- D.

You were right. I moved my PC in another room, and I left my front case open without any dust filter  (Define R6 Case) and voila, the CPU temperature dropped from 80 to 65 degrees on heavy load, also the CPU speed increased from 3.2 to 3.5.

2020-08-01, 16:34:41
Reply #1172

Juraj

  • Moderator
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 4134
    • View Profile
    • studio website


Hey, so:

- Noctua is the right choice, always. Why it absolutely beats BeQuiet and other TR4 coolers is the heatpipe orientation. Noctua runs the heatpipes across the length of the chip, while everyone else across the width.
  Because of this, only Noctua actually covers all the dies on 3990X with heatpipes. All TR4 dedicated coolers cover the heatspreader, but quick access to heatpipes is what really makes the difference. KitGuru reviewed this and difference was bigger than 10C on 3990X.
On 3960/3970X the heatpipes are ok, but since those run hotter it's still bad idea. Noctua is always the correct answer. Always.

Regarding memory, I recently upgraded to 32GB 3600 CL18 DIMMs from Patriot, they use the same Hynix CJR dies that G.Skill & Corsair, but were so much cheaper :- ). I paid 280 Euro for each 64(2x32) Kit. And it works on my Aorus Xtreme TRX40 super well, super stable at XMP.
If you want higher-end kit, then Micron Rev-E Crucial Ballistics offer 32GB DIMMs with 3600/CL16. These are even better than Hynix CJR. (There is no Samsung B-Die with 32GB Dimm capacity for consumers).

Cannot say anything about HyperX Fury, no idea what it is, but since it's binned at 3200/CL16 I would say it's not a greatest quality. The speed itself isn't very important for 3rd gen Threadrippers, but higher-end memory kits have higher chance to run stable in 128-256GB configurations with higher speed. For those who want 256GB 3600 CL16-18, you need the best kits.

Good choice of SSDs, can't go wrong with those, PCI 3.0, but good controller, dram capacity and TLC with SLC Cache.

GPU, sure, any choice you like.
talcikdemovicova.com  Website and blog
be.net/jurajtalcik   Our studio Behance portfolio
Instagram   Our studio Instagram, managed by Veronika

2020-08-02, 06:51:30
Reply #1173

danio1011

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
I might be missing something, but it seems like the 3995wx is a wash for Corona users?  Same clock speed/core count and since the latest gen isn’t super restricted by ram speed, the gains of 8 channel memory won’t be significant.  Is that about right?  Just considering my upgrade options over the remainder of the year.  Thanks!

2020-08-02, 12:01:04
Reply #1174

skiny75

  • Primary Certified Instructor
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile





Hey, so:

- Noctua is the right choice, always. Why it absolutely beats BeQuiet and other TR4 coolers is the heatpipe orientation. Noctua runs the heatpipes across the length of the chip, while everyone else across the width.
  Because of this, only Noctua actually covers all the dies on 3990X with heatpipes. All TR4 dedicated coolers cover the heatspreader, but quick access to heatpipes is what really makes the difference. KitGuru reviewed this and difference was bigger than 10C on 3990X.
On 3960/3970X the heatpipes are ok, but since those run hotter it's still bad idea. Noctua is always the correct answer. Always.

Regarding memory, I recently upgraded to 32GB 3600 CL18 DIMMs from Patriot, they use the same Hynix CJR dies that G.Skill & Corsair, but were so much cheaper :- ). I paid 280 Euro for each 64(2x32) Kit. And it works on my Aorus Xtreme TRX40 super well, super stable at XMP.
If you want higher-end kit, then Micron Rev-E Crucial Ballistics offer 32GB DIMMs with 3600/CL16. These are even better than Hynix CJR. (There is no Samsung B-Die with 32GB Dimm capacity for consumers).

Cannot say anything about HyperX Fury, no idea what it is, but since it's binned at 3200/CL16 I would say it's not a greatest quality. The speed itself isn't very important for 3rd gen Threadrippers, but higher-end memory kits have higher chance to run stable in 128-256GB configurations with higher speed. For those who want 256GB 3600 CL16-18, you need the best kits.

Good choice of SSDs, can't go wrong with those, PCI 3.0, but good controller, dram capacity and TLC with SLC Cache.

GPU, sure, any choice you like.

Hey Juraj,  Thanks a lot for the help. 
Next days I will order it. Really curious to try IR.


2020-08-03, 22:46:02
Reply #1175

Juraj

  • Moderator
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 4134
    • View Profile
    • studio website
I might be missing something, but it seems like the 3995wx is a wash for Corona users?  Same clock speed/core count and since the latest gen isn’t super restricted by ram speed, the gains of 8 channel memory won’t be significant.  Is that about right?  Just considering my upgrade options over the remainder of the year.  Thanks!

Are you able to source motherboard plus the chip? Because it's strictly OEM, with Lenovo being first, and then other integrators.

I think I've already seen benchmarks (by AMD itself, or Lenovo?) where there wasn't any improvement in either Corona or Vray.

BUT,...8 channels are 8 channels. Recently one of my ram sticks broke, and for moment, after taking it out, I ran benchmarks in single-channel mode. Corona absolutely tanked.. while Cinebench and many other benchmarks showed no difference.
Likewise I currently own few very high-end competitor machines, and the higher bandwidth doesn't seem to improve Corona either.

But it's important to note, that all these systems are running at JEDEC spec, which would be 3200 CL24. The Threadripper+ didn't seem to rule out unbuffered memory, at least with 256GB capacity (since that is where unbuffered ends due to 32GB DIMMs max), so you would loose the capacity benefit of TR4+, but still gain the bandwidth.

All in all, I am a bit salty something like this happened. AMD didn't want to cannibalize Epyc (since it has already single-socket high TDP P-series), until Mac Pro came along and system integrators wanted equivalent, suddenly it makes sense business wise.
talcikdemovicova.com  Website and blog
be.net/jurajtalcik   Our studio Behance portfolio
Instagram   Our studio Instagram, managed by Veronika

2020-08-03, 22:50:42
Reply #1176

Juraj

  • Moderator
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 4134
    • View Profile
    • studio website

Hey Juraj,  Thanks a lot for the help. 
Next days I will order it. Really curious to try IR.

Please tell me your experience then. Because I am personally somewhat dissapointed in IR.

This is not Corona's fault I believe, but even if I only dedicate 50perc. of threads to IR, the rest of Max is still 4 times slower to react during this time. Because the I/O is saturated nonetheless.
I observe same behavior with any other tool, but with Max it's most severe.

I tried very extensive Process Lasso exercises to cheat around Windows scheduling, but I don't know if there is anything to really do here.

From perfomance point, it's massive improvement. It's beast. But it still doesn't improve multi-tasking in any way..for me IR is still painful. It's very different from GPU engines, where GPU and CPU don't share any I/O bandwidth during IR (but you do need another GPU just for viewport heh, but that is easy with GPUs since they stack, with CPU, you got one CPU, and that I/O has to deal with everything at same time, and there are only so many resources...).
talcikdemovicova.com  Website and blog
be.net/jurajtalcik   Our studio Behance portfolio
Instagram   Our studio Instagram, managed by Veronika

2020-08-07, 09:57:17
Reply #1177

Cyanhide

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 139
    • View Profile
Hi!,

I have a Threadripper 2990WX, but it seems i'm way behind the benchmark average.
I have 128GB ram, only 96 is recognized though, its clocked at 2933htz or something.

Max rendering feels really slow! en the vfb lags quite a lot.
My setup:
Zenith Extreme
Threadripper 2990WS
Corsair vengeance RGB 3200htz RAM -> 128 in total.
PSU: BeQuiet 1000 wat
Liquid Cooler Kraken X62
And Strix 1080TI

My benchmnark is around 1minute  and 7 seconds?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

2020-08-07, 14:37:39
Reply #1178

lolec

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 156
    • View Profile
Your cooler is insufficient. I should know, the first 2990x build I did, I used that same cooler and got the same results,  thankfully, I listened to juraj and ordered a noctua. The difference is night and day.

The issue is coverage. The is not a single of-the-shelf liquid cooler that offers 100% coverage for threadripper (except enermax, with terrible quality control and reports of leaks and rust, even for the latest revision)

If you want to water cool, you have to go custom loop. Otherwise Noctua


2020-08-11, 13:39:50
Reply #1179

Juraj

  • Moderator
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 4134
    • View Profile
    • studio website
Hi!,

I have a Threadripper 2990WX, but it seems i'm way behind the benchmark average.
I have 128GB ram, only 96 is recognized though, its clocked at 2933htz or something.


This is the issue. Because of this, it probably runs single-channel and this absolutely tanks performance.

There are three possible causes behind not recognized DIMMs:

- (Most common) Memory is not correctly seated. It's very easy to actually do this, as it has to very firmly "click". Double or tripple check every module if it's 100perc. correctly seated. If only one DIMM is wrong, it will disable full channel, so two DIMMs (hence why 128 --> 96)
- (Less common) CPU is not correctly seated and is not recognising all memory channels. With Threadripper sockets, this is less common, but with uneven CPU cooler pressure can still happen. CPU cooler has to be very firmly screwed down.
- (Least common) Faulty DIMM. Sometimes happen, I had just recently returned Corsair Vengeance (4x16) because one module died. This is pickle to troubleshoot, because if only one DIMM dies, the CPU will disable the full channel so it appears like two modules are wrong (so you will go from 128 to 96).

Like Lolec said, your CPU cooler is also wrong, but your issue is with memory, the most common issue with PCs :- ).
talcikdemovicova.com  Website and blog
be.net/jurajtalcik   Our studio Behance portfolio
Instagram   Our studio Instagram, managed by Veronika

2020-08-11, 13:52:18
Reply #1180

Juraj

  • Moderator
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 4134
    • View Profile
    • studio website
In meantime, I received my Optimus CPU block :- ) After 8 months, but it's such piece of art. What a stunning build quality..

Eh, sad I will not use it anysoon since 3990X just absolutely rocks on Noctua UH-14s TR4, but maybe I will use it for mobile build in my Sliger. (doesn't fit more than 140mm height coolers).

talcikdemovicova.com  Website and blog
be.net/jurajtalcik   Our studio Behance portfolio
Instagram   Our studio Instagram, managed by Veronika

2020-08-11, 14:22:48
Reply #1181

Cyanhide

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 139
    • View Profile
Your cooler is insufficient. I should know, the first 2990x build I did, I used that same cooler and got the same results,  thankfully, I listened to juraj and ordered a noctua. The difference is night and day.

The issue is coverage. The is not a single of-the-shelf liquid cooler that offers 100% coverage for threadripper (except enermax, with terrible quality control and reports of leaks and rust, even for the latest revision)

If you want to water cool, you have to go custom loop. Otherwise Noctua
I ended up buying the Enermax 360 TR4 II AIO cooler, horrible reviews but it was the only one my local pc shop had.
Gonna change this one ASAP.

2020-08-11, 14:24:41
Reply #1182

Cyanhide

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 139
    • View Profile
Hi!,

I have a Threadripper 2990WX, but it seems i'm way behind the benchmark average.
I have 128GB ram, only 96 is recognized though, its clocked at 2933htz or something.


This is the issue. Because of this, it probably runs single-channel and this absolutely tanks performance.

There are three possible causes behind not recognized DIMMs:

- (Most common) Memory is not correctly seated. It's very easy to actually do this, as it has to very firmly "click". Double or tripple check every module if it's 100perc. correctly seated. If only one DIMM is wrong, it will disable full channel, so two DIMMs (hence why 128 --> 96)
- (Less common) CPU is not correctly seated and is not recognising all memory channels. With Threadripper sockets, this is less common, but with uneven CPU cooler pressure can still happen. CPU cooler has to be very firmly screwed down.
- (Least common) Faulty DIMM. Sometimes happen, I had just recently returned Corsair Vengeance (4x16) because one module died. This is pickle to troubleshoot, because if only one DIMM dies, the CPU will disable the full channel so it appears like two modules are wrong (so you will go from 128 to 96).

Like Lolec said, your CPU cooler is also wrong, but your issue is with memory, the most common issue with PCs :- ).

I actually ended up buying a new (bad cooler) and Asus prime X399-A motherboard. It fixed everything.
I love ROG, but they have a shit load of issues with their mobos imho.


2020-08-12, 16:50:37
Reply #1183

Juraj

  • Moderator
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 4134
    • View Profile
    • studio website
Well, I am bit perplexed by that... Prime X399-A and Zenith Alpha are both by Asus. The ROG means it's just "premium" Asus product. Asus has Quality Control issues, but anytime it does, it pays more attention to fixing the expensive product (i.e. ROG) than the budget product (Prime series).

You bought cheaper board without even trying to take the memory out and put it back it?
talcikdemovicova.com  Website and blog
be.net/jurajtalcik   Our studio Behance portfolio
Instagram   Our studio Instagram, managed by Veronika

2020-08-12, 23:15:04
Reply #1184

Cyanhide

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 139
    • View Profile
Well, I am bit perplexed by that... Prime X399-A and Zenith Alpha are both by Asus. The ROG means it's just "premium" Asus product. Asus has Quality Control issues, but anytime it does, it pays more attention to fixing the expensive product (i.e. ROG) than the budget product (Prime series).

You bought cheaper board without even trying to take the memory out and put it back it?
Yeah, I actally did a shit load of testing with different sets of ram and slots, and I came to the conclussion my dimm C1 slot was faulty.
So far my workstation has been running smooth AF.

In the mobo's defense it did its duty for a good while.
For my new threadripper built I'l probably go back to ROG, since I'm a gamer to.