Author Topic: Why is Redshift so popular?  (Read 35889 times)

2017-12-08, 23:11:48
Reply #30

burnin

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yes, it can be used progressively

2017-12-09, 01:23:45
Reply #31

lupaz

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Real time denoising would be nice for IR, especially if it comes from the GPU.

But to be honest the only thing I envy from GPU render engines is that you don’t hear the jet engine fans of CPUs. It sounds a bit archaic. And the scalability on a single workstation of course.

Any other feature is like meh.

2017-12-09, 18:29:00
Reply #32

Nejc Kilar

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Real time denoising would be nice for IR, especially if it comes from the GPU.

But to be honest the only thing I envy from GPU render engines is that you don’t hear the jet engine fans of CPUs. It sounds a bit archaic. And the scalability on a single workstation of course.

Any other feature is like meh.

Heh, afaik its not a treat to hear 4x 300W GPUs working at a 100% either :) Unless you have liquid cooling that is but then again the same can be done to CPUs.

Totally agree about scalability though. I think thats a super interesting aspect of GPU rendering. 3x GPUs not fast enough in IR? Plug in 3 more! :)

2017-12-09, 23:54:16
Reply #33

Juraj

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Yeah, that was bit odd comment :- ). I would suspect either poor case, CPU cooler, or setup.

Personally, I find CPU tower coolers to be extremely silent, they are for most part massive 140mm fans on heatsink that don't need to spin a lot (<1000 RPM to maintain even high overclock).
My 2x Noctua NH-U14 spin only up to 900 RPM to cool my dual-xeon (2x140W), generating roughly <= 26 dB. It's inaudible almost, I can only hear them when everything else is shut down at night.

Oppositely, if you want to stack a lot of GPUs next to each other, it's preferable to use blower-style reference models, and those generate the most audible noise I am aware of.
This means the Founder's edition of 1080Ti easily reaches 42 dB because it spins up to 4000 RPM. That's jet engine :- )

Only way to avoid it is to use custom water-loop, but you need massive pump to go through multiple GPUs and those pumps spin 2000+ RPM very easily, making it again, rather audible. Such setups are never <30 dB inside massive case.

But of course, scalability is amazing. That's the best feature of GPUs bar none.
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2017-12-10, 18:43:33
Reply #34

Nejc Kilar

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...
Oppositely, if you want to stack a lot of GPUs next to each other, it's preferable to use blower-style reference models, and those generate the most audible noise I am aware of.
This means the Founder's edition of 1080Ti easily reaches 42 dB because it spins up to 4000 RPM. That's jet engine :- )

Only way to avoid it is to use custom water-loop, but you need massive pump to go through multiple GPUs and those pumps spin 2000+ RPM very easily, making it again, rather audible. Such setups are never <30 dB inside massive case.
...

I hate to nitpick your posts but from what I'm reading up on the subject I'd suggest a hybrid GPU cooler as a good in between option . It usually has a single / two fan design (one on the cards the other on the radiator) and the cooling performance is way better than with the rear exhaust cards when you have 4x GPUs side by side because you don't rely on fresh air intake from inside the case where all your GPUs are.

I haven't tried it but I'd say its a good in between option because you now have fairly large fan spinning plus it doesn't need to rev up all the time due to the radiators being outside the GPU area.

2017-12-11, 15:01:20
Reply #35

Juraj

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...
Oppositely, if you want to stack a lot of GPUs next to each other, it's preferable to use blower-style reference models, and those generate the most audible noise I am aware of.
This means the Founder's edition of 1080Ti easily reaches 42 dB because it spins up to 4000 RPM. That's jet engine :- )

Only way to avoid it is to use custom water-loop, but you need massive pump to go through multiple GPUs and those pumps spin 2000+ RPM very easily, making it again, rather audible. Such setups are never <30 dB inside massive case.
...

I hate to nitpick your posts but from what I'm reading up on the subject I'd suggest a hybrid GPU cooler as a good in between option . It usually has a single / two fan design (one on the cards the other on the radiator) and the cooling performance is way better than with the rear exhaust cards when you have 4x GPUs side by side because you don't rely on fresh air intake from inside the case where all your GPUs are.

I haven't tried it but I'd say its a good in between option because you now have fairly large fan spinning plus it doesn't need to rev up all the time due to the radiators being outside the GPU area.

And where would you conveniently place the fans for these hybrid GPUs ? 4x Hybrid GPUs on top are 4x 120/140mm fans to place somewhere in the case.
The on-cards fans will still obstruct themselves in the slots in airflow.

And last, that might be the most audible solution imho, as you'll have 4 crappy micropumps. Not fan of hybrids.
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2017-12-11, 15:25:02
Reply #36

Nejc Kilar

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To me the benefits seem to come from the fact that you potentially have 4x 120mm fans running at low speeds. In Fractal Design XL R2 I can find a few places where I could put them without modding the case :)

The on-card fans are obstructed but the same is true for the rear exhaust ones. I could be wrong but afaik the VRM chips benefit the most from that fan and it isn't that big of a deal because you are facing the same scenario (if not worse due to higher temps of the GPU) with blower cards. Granted, it probably really helps if you have a decent flow in your case.

That said VRMs do tend to get hot.

So to me thats 4x 120mm fans at lower speeds versus 4x something thats considerably smaller at high rpm (its fairly well documented that 4x reference blower equipped GPUs throttle fairly often which means its probably as loud as you've pointed out).

Since GPUs / CPUs get really inefficient when overclocked you could _potentially_ further silent the hybrids by restoring them to near reference clocks.

But I do agree that a full out water solution is more silent, for sure :) Have you had a bad experience with a hybrid GPU? If so, which one did you use?

2017-12-11, 15:40:41
Reply #37

Ondra

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funny thing, between 2007 and 2017, the best comment for derailing a thread on any technical forum stayed the same - computer noise :D
Rendering is magic.
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2017-12-11, 15:45:21
Reply #38

Juraj

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But I do agree that a full out water solution is more silent, for sure :) Have you had a bad experience with a hybrid GPU? If so, which one did you use?

None. I consider them waste of money. 4x hybrids pay for custom water loop by themselves.
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2017-12-11, 20:37:01
Reply #39

Nejc Kilar

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@Ondra, Which is totally funny considering I personally don't really care that much about noise yet here I am debating it :)

@Juraj, Well I think thats rather bold? The average "cheap" 1080ti comes in at around 740 in .de (I'm from Slovenia tho but lets not overcomplicate). If you put an EKWB on it just the GPU cover alone costs 110 eur which brings it to around 850 EUR per card. You gotta add costs like the radiator + the other screws and bolts which adds up what, another 100-200-300? :)

An EVGA 1080ti (factory OC) hybrid is cca 870 EUR.

Dunno, just seems like if you don't want the hassle / paying extra for the full loop the Hybrid way seems like a good option to me. Hopefully someone else could chime in to set us both wrong :)

As for Redshift itself, right now the tonemapping options are pretty limited. I heard they are tackling that one as well but its a ++ feature that I like about Corona :) Gotta throw a kudos to the devs :P

2017-12-11, 22:15:40
Reply #40

Juraj

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I feel like you are arguing just for the sake of bringing forward niche, unorthodox solution that's rarely if ever used as some real common alternative.

If you build workstation with 4 gpus, that's solid investment were additional money towards loop doesn't make much of a difference.
But trying to fit 4 hosed fans would either compromise airflow of regular tower cases, or require water-cooling towers that have many fan openings available and are foremost made for.... water loop.

I googled such builds to see how popular it is and it look quite ridiculous. It could be viable perhaps for up to dual-GPU setup, but after that I am quite sceptical.



« Last Edit: 2017-12-11, 22:21:36 by Juraj Talcik »
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2017-12-11, 22:47:34
Reply #41

burnin

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i see... it's mainly because of maya :p

2017-12-11, 23:21:22
Reply #42

lupaz

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i see... it's mainly because of maya :p

Agree!
I came to that conclusion too.

2017-12-12, 08:08:44
Reply #43

Nejc Kilar

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@Juraj

Nah, not arguing just for the sake of arguing man... Debating :) Its a solution I know that a few really good artists use and is something I am considering for myself too. I have other reasons why I think a full water solution wouldn't work for me personally - but thats a different story. Like I said tho, performance wise its the preferred solution but so is a 2x2699 build. Not everybody has one obviously.

I think its especially fitting for those that go the middle route, something like a hybrid 1070 x 4 and are mindful of their budgets.
« Last Edit: 2017-12-12, 09:08:59 by nkilar »

2017-12-12, 16:24:57
Reply #44

lupaz

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Juraj, Nkilar,
May I ask you a stupid question?
With all the bitcoin mania going on, aren't there self contained GPUs that can be plunged in externally to a workstation? That way you wouldn't have a overheating problem due to lack of space...