Messages

1

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2024-02-19, 10:54:59 »

Dear Maru

Thank you for your response and your statement. I can set up and provide an additional and more simple scene. Maybe this helps to figure out things more easily.

I will post it soon.

Thank you for your efforts !

ASIMO

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[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2024-02-09, 16:10:15 »

Hi, my message from last year is still valid :)

What we need is simple:
- a sample scene (archived with all textures and other assets)
- the render time you are getting
- your exact hardware
- your version of Corona and C4D
- if you wish, you can also include a comparison with other hardware
- any other relevant information such as render stats are welcome, for more information on how to correctly prepare reports, see: https://support.chaos.com/hc/en-us/articles/4648898278545

We need this as a support ticket sent here: https://support.chaos.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

Dear Maru

I am sorry. But your message from last year seems not valid.

I opened this thread with a sample scene for everyone to download, to test and post results.

A lot of results and observations have already been posted, clearly pointing out the issue. All documented and discussed by kind users on over 7 pages of this thread.

Besides that. I got in contact with CHAOS and I precisely followed all instructions to hand in a proper scene and opened a Support Ticket on Oct. 23rd 2023.

Benjamin Rosas from CHAOS kindly replied and stated, that you are already investigating on this. Please see ID #166297
_

For my part this issue took over 30 hours of personal investigations and tests. I am still suffering from the speed-issues as CoronaRender is not working properly with Apple M Systems.

The only way is to workaround the Bitmap issue for each project and re-organizing most of my materials and scenes.

Besides paying for CoronaRender (with a 500% slowdown) I also have to pay for all my additional investigations. It is time, (render-time) and energy I loose in my professional business.

So it would be very welcome and encouraging to at least have an official statement what exactly causes this issue and if there is a strategy on how to solve it ?

Maybe it can not be solved ? Fair enough. At least we can decide, if working on Mac makes sense in the future together with CHAOS.

I like to help. But it is your very job to provide a product that properly works with systems, you are selling it for.

Best – ASIMO

3

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-11-29, 16:27:12 »

Hi Handz,

Regarding Corona Bitmap, for each texture map you want to use within a material, your workflow would be:
e.g.
texture>plugins>corona>bitmap - then select the texture map you want to use
or
Glossiness>plugins>corona>bitmap - then select the texture map you want to use

Exactly. This works in increases render-times dramatically on ARM-Chipsets ! But one has to do this for hundreds of models and textures that use non-corona bitmaps ...

4

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-11-22, 14:35:36 »

Hello

I also tested the new built. The improvement is only seconds. From 10:52 to 10:36. So nothing significant.

The same scene using Corona-Bitmaps renders in about 2 min with the latest official hot-fix – so more than 5 times faster !

Something is still fundamentally wrong with native bitmaps (textures) and I really have to start questioning my whole setup.

With the current downgrade I can no longer work on a professional level using CoronaRender on new Mac Computers.

Is there anything in development the Chaos group might want to share ?

Thanks

5

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: LOD for Human models from the Cosmos Browser

« on: 2023-11-14, 10:43:30 »

Hello

As far as I can tell it works with the latest build. Great job ! Thx.

Asimo

6

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-10-25, 10:09:03 »

It seems bitmaps have a big influence in render times.
Surprised to see the i9 13900K (24 cores ?) being so much faster than a Mac Studio.
Interesting all of it.
M3 Macs are coming Monday but I don't think we need to get excited. I wonder sometimes even how many Mac users are still there with Coronarender.

The i9 13900K is not faster than the Mac Studio. When using Bitmaps the Studio finishes the scene in 1:38. The i9 13900K in 2:40 !

7

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-10-24, 21:26:06 »

Hello

I tested the grass-scene again by converting / using only native C4D Bitmaps.

As you can see in the image some information regarding the Corona-Bitmap (Tiling / UV / Offsets) got lost. So the materials render different, also making the scene look darker.

Anyway it takes almost three times longer for my Mac Studio to render. Timestamp is 27:21 min !

I think depending on the file-size / amount of textures used, times go up even more. It shows the same behavior as in the house-scene.

See attachment.

Best – Asimo

8

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: LOD for Human models from the Cosmos Browser

« on: 2023-10-24, 21:01:10 »

Not sure why there is a long discussion about scene scale, cm/ mm, -100 blur-scale.. etc
The corona team knows about this problem for a long time and didn’t forget about it!
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=30968.msg176403#msg176403
It’s one of many corona bitmap issues and the only solution for now: Use native c4d bitmap.
-100 blur-scale is brutal and NOT the solution!
I wouldn’t normally care, but the fact that most cosmos assets use corona bitmap makes cosmos "unusable".

Hello

Thank you for making us aware !

You are completely right. Totally agree with you. This obviously remains the exact same problem since about three years.

I do care a lot, as the Bitmap-topic seems connected with the recent rendertime-issue using Apple M-systems.

Best

A

9

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: LOD for Human models from the Cosmos Browser

« on: 2023-10-24, 14:26:28 »

What do you mean with “also blurry with Corona Bitmap”? Only Corona Bitmap is blurry, native C4D bitmap is sharp. (Keep in mind, there is a bit jpg compression visible)

And I think this issue is only with Corona bitmaps, I haven't seen this with C4D bitmaps...


/// EDIT

I made a better scene. Left side is native C4D bitmap. Right side is Corona bitmap. Again, please keep in mind that there is jpg compression, and my texture is not perfectly sharp.
Focal length is 15, 36, and 80mm.

Thank you for the tests. These are great examples !

It would be interesting if there are changes in render-times as well between rendering all with Native-Bitmaps, Corona-Bitmaps or Corona-Bitmaps with -100% Blur-Scale.

Best

A

10

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-10-24, 14:23:27 »

Try this one. Simple model with only Chaos Cosmos assets and materials.
Rendered in about 12 min. 20 passes on a Mac Studio 20cores, 128 Gb, C4D 2024.1.0 and CR daily build 20 oktober 2024:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YzHB1oXmiF_qk0jtWkM3PgPPetIEDcmS/view?usp=sharing

Hello FRV

Thank you very much for your scene. I rendered it on both my Mac Studio M2 Ultra with 192GB and my i9 10900K iMac. Both running C4D2023 and Corona V10.

The results are exactly matching the Corona Benchmarks and Cinebench. So everything perfect with this scene and the power of the two computers. See attachments.

Mac Studio: 10:19
iMac i9: 23:38

The Mac Studio speeds up to 2.29x faster than the iMac in this scene with 100% power all way through. So we can for sure exclude thermal throttling problems.

There are two things I would like to test, as I think they could have an impact :

1. Changing the Blur-Scale of the Corona Bitmaps to -100%.

2. Changing all Corona-Bitmaps of this scene to Non-Corona-Bitmaps.

I will do the tests once I have some time.

Best – A

11

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: LOD for Human models from the Cosmos Browser

« on: 2023-10-23, 19:58:16 »

Did a quick test too. Simple scene. Two cubes close to the camera, and two cubes around 200m away.
Left side using C4D bitmaps and right side Corona bitmaps.

The only thing that changes is the focal length of the camera. With a focal length of 35, the texture is blurry. With a focal length of 235, both have the same sharpness.

Hi

Interesting. So also blurry with Corona Bitmap. You are not using any DOF in the camera settings, right ?

So this could mean it is somehow connected with the focal length in general ?

A

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[C4D] General Discussion / Re: LOD for Human models from the Cosmos Browser

« on: 2023-10-23, 15:55:30 »

Thanks for your tests, it appreciated. Are you able to share one of these simple scenes with me?

Yes – I am happy to share it.

Please find attached the scene with different folders. 1 - With a direct Proxy of a figure scaled. 2 - With the Proxy of a figure converted to Mesh and scaled. And also the scene with a simple cube and the texture applied. Once using 0% Blur scale (default setting) and once with Blur scale set to -100%.

One can see, that only when using -100% Blur scale in the settings it renders sharp and clear. This only happens when using Corona Bitmap ! A Corona default material with a texture in the texture slot always renders "correct" or sharp.

Thank you for your effort. A

13

[C4D] Bug Reporting / Re: Viewport re-loading materials - Display problem

« on: 2023-10-23, 14:37:24 »

Hello

Ok good to hear. For the second part I attached two images. First is after opening the scene-file. Everything is alright.

But after expanding / or changing to another viewport-window the textures reload in this strange way or do not even load. Sometimes it changes back to normal.

As it was already mentioned, this does not happen if I simply move around with the camera or change to a different camera in the open 3D-view window.

Thank you for your investigations and help.

Best – A

Oh I see. If you're able to reproduce it and can share the scene with us, that would be very handy. :)

Hello Beanzvision

This problem is not scene-specific. It happens with every scene, also with Cinema4D materials. So the question is, if this is really a CoronaRender relevant thing ?

It seems more like a Cinema4D 2023 / 2024 issue.

Best – A

Oh I see! You are the first to inform me it happens with C4D materials as well so thank you for that. :) If you haven't already, it might be worth reporting it to MAXON as well.

Yes – I just reported this to the C4D Support. If I get feedback I will share it here.

14

[C4D] Bug Reporting / Re: Viewport re-loading materials - Display problem

« on: 2023-10-23, 14:03:53 »

Hello

Ok good to hear. For the second part I attached two images. First is after opening the scene-file. Everything is alright.

But after expanding / or changing to another viewport-window the textures reload in this strange way or do not even load. Sometimes it changes back to normal.

As it was already mentioned, this does not happen if I simply move around with the camera or change to a different camera in the open 3D-view window.

Thank you for your investigations and help.

Best – A

Oh I see. If you're able to reproduce it and can share the scene with us, that would be very handy. :)

Hello Beanzvision

This problem is not scene-specific. It happens with every scene, also with Cinema4D materials. So the question is, if this is really a CoronaRender relevant thing ?

It seems more like a Cinema4D 2023 / 2024 issue.

Best – A

15

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-10-22, 11:09:33 »

I would love to see a recent model with some assets that renders in about the same time to find out if this is specific to a certain file or really a hardware problem.

Of course it has to do with something in the scene, but it is not a scene-problem. If it would render slow on both machines (Intel and M) then it would be a scene problem. But it renders perfectly fast and fine on the Intel chip, so why not on the M ? I would also love to see a different file we could test.