Messages

16

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: LOD for Human models from the Cosmos Browser

« on: 2023-10-24, 14:26:28 »

What do you mean with “also blurry with Corona Bitmap”? Only Corona Bitmap is blurry, native C4D bitmap is sharp. (Keep in mind, there is a bit jpg compression visible)

And I think this issue is only with Corona bitmaps, I haven't seen this with C4D bitmaps...


/// EDIT

I made a better scene. Left side is native C4D bitmap. Right side is Corona bitmap. Again, please keep in mind that there is jpg compression, and my texture is not perfectly sharp.
Focal length is 15, 36, and 80mm.

Thank you for the tests. These are great examples !

It would be interesting if there are changes in render-times as well between rendering all with Native-Bitmaps, Corona-Bitmaps or Corona-Bitmaps with -100% Blur-Scale.

Best

A

17

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-10-24, 14:23:27 »

Try this one. Simple model with only Chaos Cosmos assets and materials.
Rendered in about 12 min. 20 passes on a Mac Studio 20cores, 128 Gb, C4D 2024.1.0 and CR daily build 20 oktober 2024:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YzHB1oXmiF_qk0jtWkM3PgPPetIEDcmS/view?usp=sharing

Hello FRV

Thank you very much for your scene. I rendered it on both my Mac Studio M2 Ultra with 192GB and my i9 10900K iMac. Both running C4D2023 and Corona V10.

The results are exactly matching the Corona Benchmarks and Cinebench. So everything perfect with this scene and the power of the two computers. See attachments.

Mac Studio: 10:19
iMac i9: 23:38

The Mac Studio speeds up to 2.29x faster than the iMac in this scene with 100% power all way through. So we can for sure exclude thermal throttling problems.

There are two things I would like to test, as I think they could have an impact :

1. Changing the Blur-Scale of the Corona Bitmaps to -100%.

2. Changing all Corona-Bitmaps of this scene to Non-Corona-Bitmaps.

I will do the tests once I have some time.

Best – A

18

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: LOD for Human models from the Cosmos Browser

« on: 2023-10-23, 19:58:16 »

Did a quick test too. Simple scene. Two cubes close to the camera, and two cubes around 200m away.
Left side using C4D bitmaps and right side Corona bitmaps.

The only thing that changes is the focal length of the camera. With a focal length of 35, the texture is blurry. With a focal length of 235, both have the same sharpness.

Hi

Interesting. So also blurry with Corona Bitmap. You are not using any DOF in the camera settings, right ?

So this could mean it is somehow connected with the focal length in general ?

A

19

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: LOD for Human models from the Cosmos Browser

« on: 2023-10-23, 15:55:30 »

Thanks for your tests, it appreciated. Are you able to share one of these simple scenes with me?

Yes – I am happy to share it.

Please find attached the scene with different folders. 1 - With a direct Proxy of a figure scaled. 2 - With the Proxy of a figure converted to Mesh and scaled. And also the scene with a simple cube and the texture applied. Once using 0% Blur scale (default setting) and once with Blur scale set to -100%.

One can see, that only when using -100% Blur scale in the settings it renders sharp and clear. This only happens when using Corona Bitmap ! A Corona default material with a texture in the texture slot always renders "correct" or sharp.

Thank you for your effort. A

20

[C4D] Bug Reporting / Re: Viewport re-loading materials - Display problem

« on: 2023-10-23, 14:37:24 »

Hello

Ok good to hear. For the second part I attached two images. First is after opening the scene-file. Everything is alright.

But after expanding / or changing to another viewport-window the textures reload in this strange way or do not even load. Sometimes it changes back to normal.

As it was already mentioned, this does not happen if I simply move around with the camera or change to a different camera in the open 3D-view window.

Thank you for your investigations and help.

Best – A

Oh I see. If you're able to reproduce it and can share the scene with us, that would be very handy. :)

Hello Beanzvision

This problem is not scene-specific. It happens with every scene, also with Cinema4D materials. So the question is, if this is really a CoronaRender relevant thing ?

It seems more like a Cinema4D 2023 / 2024 issue.

Best – A

Oh I see! You are the first to inform me it happens with C4D materials as well so thank you for that. :) If you haven't already, it might be worth reporting it to MAXON as well.

Yes – I just reported this to the C4D Support. If I get feedback I will share it here.

21

[C4D] Bug Reporting / Re: Viewport re-loading materials - Display problem

« on: 2023-10-23, 14:03:53 »

Hello

Ok good to hear. For the second part I attached two images. First is after opening the scene-file. Everything is alright.

But after expanding / or changing to another viewport-window the textures reload in this strange way or do not even load. Sometimes it changes back to normal.

As it was already mentioned, this does not happen if I simply move around with the camera or change to a different camera in the open 3D-view window.

Thank you for your investigations and help.

Best – A

Oh I see. If you're able to reproduce it and can share the scene with us, that would be very handy. :)

Hello Beanzvision

This problem is not scene-specific. It happens with every scene, also with Cinema4D materials. So the question is, if this is really a CoronaRender relevant thing ?

It seems more like a Cinema4D 2023 / 2024 issue.

Best – A

22

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-10-22, 11:09:33 »

I would love to see a recent model with some assets that renders in about the same time to find out if this is specific to a certain file or really a hardware problem.

Of course it has to do with something in the scene, but it is not a scene-problem. If it would render slow on both machines (Intel and M) then it would be a scene problem. But it renders perfectly fast and fine on the Intel chip, so why not on the M ? I would also love to see a different file we could test.

23

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-10-21, 15:00:43 »

Not a Mac user anymore. But I was wondering and rendered this scene on my Threadripper 3990 Win 10 build.

Using native C4D Bitmaps: 2:15
Using Corona Bitmaps: 1:05

Honestly, I was not aware of such a speed difference between Corona and C4D bitmaps!!
Only downside, the Treeline in the background rendererd very blurry. Changing interpolation didn't help. Is there a known issue for non-square textures? (The tree texture has a resolution of 7000x1138px)
Just wondering, because everything else rendered fine…

Hello

Thank you very much for sharing your results. The issue with the blurred background appears to me as something alarming, as it is true for almost all objects in the the Cosmos browser in general ! Once you move objects around 100m far from the camera textures will start to blur and loose sharpness. It becomes visible, once you scale up objects in the distance. It is easy to test, by just applying a texture to a cube and move it to the background. It can be avoided manually, setting the Blur Scale to -100% and make it sharp again. I believe this could be an undetected bug. There also is a thread on this, showcasing the trouble. See link with no statement yet.

Maybe that is also why it renders faster when changing the scene to Bitmap ? Not because it is a Bitmap, but because there is less accuracy / sharpness !

https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=41149.0
_

This might be a bit off-topic but it could also be connected with the way Intel-chips or M-chips deal with textures.

A

24

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-10-20, 14:47:29 »

Thank you too! Hopefully we will be able to reproduce the slowdown and then it should be possible for us to find out what exactly is causing it. If we won't be able to immediately provide a solution, we should be able to at least explain what is going on.

I totally agree and I am happy to assist and do some testings as well :)

Sometimes an explanation is already helpful to understand things.

Thank you.

25

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-10-20, 14:42:12 »

Hey guys, sorry, but there so much information here that soon it will become impossible for us to go through it all. What we need is simple:
- a sample scene (archived with all textures and other assets)
- the render time you are getting
- your exact hardware
- your version of Corona and C4D
- if you wish, you can also include a comparison with other hardware
- any other relevant information such as render stats are welcome, for more information on how to correctly prepare reports, see: https://support.chaos.com/hc/en-us/articles/4648898278545

We need this as a support ticket sent here: https://support.chaos.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

Once we have all the details, we will investigate ASAP!

I understand. I will take care of this and sending in the scene and my results.

Thanks a lot for you efforts !

A

26

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-10-20, 14:31:23 »

Just copied pasted the scene in to a new file. Result 14:26
A lot of difference...
I don't know but maybe there is something with this file.
Maybe good to check with something more recent before coming to conclusion on the Mac Studio.
I don't know if intel chips have as well big differences depending on scene type. You test scene hardly makes use of render instances.

14:26 ? So even slower in a new file ?

I am open to test scenes that render around 10-15 min. If you want to setup up something it would be great to compare. Maybe including some basic textures, shaders, objects, instances, round edges, displacement and so on ? So we could eliminate certain categories ?

Thx for your interest in this topic. A

27

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: LOD for Human models from the Cosmos Browser

« on: 2023-10-20, 14:10:03 »

Are the proxy units set to auto or something else? If I change the scale of my project, the following happens with different units on each proxy. Some of which are blurred. ;)

Hello

It might have nothing to do with settings in the Proxy at all, as this problem seems based on the texture-settings itself. It was already pointed out that changing the Blur-Scale affects this issue. Even if I duplicate the proxy to a mesh the problem stays the same. No difference in mm, cm, m. See screenshot.

I even just tested the same texture on a simple cube. Same behavior !

Or speaking the other way : What setting in C4D (scale, units) is correct so that the textures would always appear sharp ? I am curious.

A

28

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-10-20, 13:05:15 »

Thanks for the detailed updates.

As you've mentioned here and on the other thead - there is definitely some missing link between the M1/M2 in real life and how it scores on benchmarks. I suspect its something to do with the Intel Embree Apple Silicon implementation still being quite "new".

Yes and No.

You have to understand, that in some scenes the M-Chip performs perfectly and according to the Benchmarks ! So the performance really is there !

It is just that in certain scenes (In my case almost every scene) there are massive performance drops happening, sometimes they are more dramatic, sometimes they are less dramatic. There is something happening, maybe it has to do with Textures, Shaders, Objects, Settings, which causes this problem on M-systems.

Hopefully we have some answers soon.

Best – A

29

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: mac studio / mac pro m2 ultra

« on: 2023-10-20, 12:07:56 »

Hello Community and contributors to this thread

I wanted to invite you to look into a critical performance issue I am having with my Apple Mac Studio M2. See link below.
_

Maybe you are affected as well, having your M-chip performing up to 5 times slower in some scenes and not noticing it.

If you have the chance to render a a recent scene on an Intel Mac in comparison with an Apple M System I would be interested in the speed difference in relation to the Corona Benchmark results or Cinebench. Are the values/differences accordingly ?

Maybe you can also generate a basic scene (with objects and textures) that renders around 10-15 min on your Mac Studio so I can test it on my iMac i9 to have some results ? That would be great.
_

See the other post :

https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=41180.0

Thank you

Best – A

30

[C4D] General Discussion / Re: CRITICAL SPEED ISSUE WITH APPLE M SYSTEMS

« on: 2023-10-20, 11:58:44 »

Just tested your scene on my m1 20 core 128gb 2tb system using CR11 (daily build), OS Sonoma and C4D 2024.
See attachment.  11 min 36 seconds.

Thank you for testing and adding your result

So same issue. Based on the benchmarks and tests with old scenes your M1 system should render this file in no longer than 3min. So your system is 4 times slower on this scene as it should be. It is mysterious.

Best – A