Chaos Corona Forum
Chaos Corona for 3ds Max => [Max] General Discussion => Topic started by: F13Design on 2015-09-30, 23:57:51
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Is there a built in Lens Flare or Lens Glare for Corona, or do you have to do it in Post Production. Thanks!
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There is none right now. I didn't try it for some time, but VrayLensEffect used to work as well since it's PostEffect, just in framebuffer from channel.
But this would be great addition...if it wasn't so confusing as the one in Vray, which I never used rather. Both for efficiency and consistency sake, having glare&flares in framebuffer before heading to post,
is great feature of 'wysiwyg' workflow.
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Agree, and it can be better if you can save them as a separate render element :)
Cheers.
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There is none right now. I didn't try it for some time, but VrayLensEffect used to work as well since it's PostEffect, just in framebuffer from channel.
But this would be great addition...if it wasn't so confusing as the one in Vray, which I never used rather. Both for efficiency and consistency sake, having glare&flares in framebuffer before heading to post,
is great feature of 'wysiwyg' workflow.
I tryed to use VrayLensEffect but it doesn't work for me. Do you do something else than just add it to the list of effects in Environment dialog to make it works?
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I´m usually of the opinion that this can easily be achieved in post production but lately I´ve felt either this or some implementation of "multilight" to interactively change light intensity/hue would be something I´d be interested to see in Corona. Many of the latest additions (warning messages and such) haven´t been too exciting - these would bring something fresh to the table ;)
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I´m usually of the opinion that this can easily be achieved in post production but lately I´ve felt either this or some implementation of "multilight" to interactively change light intensity/hue would be something I´d be interested to see in Corona. Many of the latest additions (warning messages and such) haven´t been too exciting - these would bring something fresh to the table ;)
Yeah this one is must-have. I didn't even know that's what's VrayLightSelect channel is for.
Glares/flares in framebuffer are super nice because they help you position your lights to cm precision to get that perfect counter-light/haze/etc... With post-production you don't achieve quite the same.
I think we should stop with the mentality that renderer is only there to give us some half-baked result because that's the workflow from VFX and times long gone. It should look perfect/finished as it is, just like photography,
only you can greatly improve or alter it in post, but only if you want. It shouldn't be a necessarary step without which, it is incomplete.
Renderer should not equal just to ray-tracer. It should be full package, if there is something to be taken from current real-time packages.
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I´m usually of the opinion that this can easily be achieved in post production but lately I´ve felt either this or some implementation of "multilight" to interactively change light intensity/hue would be something I´d be interested to see in Corona. Many of the latest additions (warning messages and such) haven´t been too exciting - these would bring something fresh to the table ;)
Yeah this one is must-have. I didn't even know that's what's VrayLightSelect channel is for.
Glares/flares in framebuffer are super nice because they help you position your lights to cm precision to get that perfect counter-light/haze/etc... With post-production you don't achieve quite the same.
I think we should stop with the mentality that renderer is only there to give us some half-baked result because that's the workflow from VFX and times long gone. It should look perfect/finished as it is, just like photography,
only you can greatly improve or alter it in post, but only if you want. It shouldn't be a necessarary step without which, it is incomplete.
Renderer should not equal just to ray-tracer. It should be full package, if there is something to be taken from current real-time packages.
Totally agree, I've been requesting a physical / photographic glare feature for ages in Corona. Rather than just a simple light intensity VFB effect we could do some really cool things if we take into account the geometry of the scene, for example some trees in front of the sun tied in with volumetrics and realistic camera lens glare - that would make Corona truly stand out from other packages.
This would also solve the issue of the harsh and flat highlight effect when rendering things like cars. Realistic metallic flake glints? Yes please!
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lens effects like this would be great to have in Corona, its the only thing that's stopping Henry moving over to Corona. He's like a magpie, he likes shiny sparkly things.
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Renderer should not equal just to ray-tracer. It should be full package, if there is something to be taken from current real-time packages.
Well.. currently renderers are by far the biggest plugins in 3dsmax. It would be really nice if we could focus less on things like proxy and scatter, and more on light transport. I personally did not touch light transport for about a year...
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I agree on proxy and scatter, definitely on scatter, because that has almost nothing to do with visual representation but instead of scene creation/management.
But glares/flares are natural part of lens look which renderer is trying to simulate, so there isn't right argument why it needs to be detached as part of post-production.
It's just as natural part as tonemapping imho.
I didn't implied it should compete with something even more important such as light transport...but that's resource management on your side, we're not choosing and deciding what you will invest your time in :- ).
For all I care as user is I want everything, won't feel guilty because of that :- )
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You guys realize that what you're asking for is - in the real world - highly dependent on the lens and its design, camera type, sensor etc? I'm not sure if it wouldn't just look artificially, small glares around highlights probably not but anything like larger flares wouldn't probably cut it. I guess it's better to leave that to the post production stage. Has something like this been done anywhere? And, most importantly, does it look convincing?
I'd ask for some lower hanging fruits like a more flexible bokeh setup with a rounding option, falloff, distortions and rotations close to the frame border.
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No ones said it shouldn't be flexible, everybody (stop with the "you guys" assuming people are imbeciles on forums) is fully aware these are based on in-camera effects and whether the controls would be photography or artistically based is arbitrary.
Yes it's been done elsewhere pretty successfully, I would say Maxwell ones look most convincing but Vray updated the solution quite as well. (it's also in Indigo, Thea, but also Unreal engine and...pretty common feature actually).
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"you guys"
Didn't intend to offend anyone, no implications from my side. Just meant as a pointer to how difficult (or impossible) it may be to get the look right since it hasn't been mentioned here.
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Couldn't agree more to adding flare glare and some sort of multilight feature. For me ( ex Maxwell user and archviz amateur) the only thing I missed when leaving Maxwell and focusing totally on Corona is the "in between production" features.
I am not an expert like you guys (you guy means experts here not imbeciles :) ) so I have to test a lot before getting a nice image.
Especially multilight is great.
Because corona has such great results without post production I try to minimize my post production process every time. Because as an architect I use corona more and more for sketchy fases of a project and present them (almost on the fly) to my clients. So my designs may change a lot during the design process. In this case it would saves a humongous amount of Photoshop time!
I know it has been discussed before on the forum before: How much can you already enhance in 3ds max/the vfb? I would say never enough!
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Is there vignetting in corona yet? if not that would be very high up my wishlist... and for the same reasons Juraj mentioned when talking about glare/bloom. When done in post vignetting often just doesnt look as good as it should do because its often done on a LDR image. Vray has vignetting on by default - I dont want to get into a debate on whether that is a good idea or not, but I find it interesting that probably 95% of the time I leave it on.
Apologies if vignetting has already been added, just coming back to corona after 2 or 3 massive vray projects!
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Glare, flare, vignette... those are post render effects. Most likely i'd leave it for post anyway, just like i do with tonemapping. But for preview purposes, why not.
I'd ask for some lower hanging fruits like a more flexible bokeh setup with a rounding option, falloff, distortions and rotations close to the frame border.
Already asked ;]
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I kept doing custom tone-mapping for about 2 years. Then I started working on projects spanning 20 pictures and multiple rounds of full iteration. Now I do as much as I can in 3D. The more it's finished from framebuffer, the better. At best, I wish to do artistic touches in post, not completing the image into its photo-realness.
It's great to know all the love about rigid, super-flexible workflow, but the future is heading into fully-automatic way of everything. The sooner it will be here the better, the one who will do it first will be the winner.
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agree with Juraj (we probably have similar workflows)
the thought of having to run every render through photoshop makes me feel unwell
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VFB overhaul is on our list... so sometimes in 2016 ;)
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I agree that it would be great to have these lens effects built-in, but only if they're controllable the way tonemapping currently is in the frame buffer. I don't want to crank out test renders just to dial in the amount of glare / vignetting. I've never used Vray, so perhaps that's how they handle it and that's what everybody's talking about, but in mental ray it was a post-render effect so you had to wait until the render was done to see how it turned out. If it wasn't right, you had to render again and wait some more. I don't like waiting.
Someone mentioned multi-light, so I just want to give a big +1000 for that. I really like being able to modify the intensities of separate lights interactively in Photoshop and it saves a ton of re-render time when working with our electrical engineers and architects. But setting up all the light passes is time consuming. Getting the passes for "free" like the VrayLightSelect render element would be fantastic.
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Agree completely with the workflow to try to get everything nailed in the VFB. Just makes far more sense to me to do things this way. Makes life so much simpler when clients make changes or when you want to get out a load of shots from a single scene, which I'm doing more and more these days.
Looking forward to these VFB enhancements.
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I fully agree! I don´t have much experience with VrayLensEffects but I´ve been using Octane Render for a couple of months now and the ability to have vignette/glare/bloom during and after rendering is great!
No more having to go in to PS, use ArionFx, find out that I need to go back and change the intensity of my spotlights, render again and so on just to get the bloom/glare at a good level both from windows and spotlights.
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Is there vignetting in corona yet? if not that would be very high up my wishlist... and for the same reasons Juraj mentioned when talking about glare/bloom. When done in post vignetting often just doesnt look as good as it should do because its often done on a LDR image. Vray has vignetting on by default - I dont want to get into a debate on whether that is a good idea or not, but I find it interesting that probably 95% of the time I leave it on.
Apologies if vignetting has already been added, just coming back to corona after 2 or 3 massive vray projects!
Well, it hasn´t been implemented yet and I think the general response re:glare/bloom/vignetting has been that these are things to be done in post. Right now I think the development is getting too fixated on keeping things "simple" (focusing solely on building a ray-tracer like Juraj mentioned) and the interface tidy. Which of course is a good, checking things aren´t getting too bloated from time to time, but I´m starting to feel now that the core features are pretty much there the mentality is starting to get restrictive.
Ondra: A year (or two?) ago "multilight" was not strictly off the table, at least it was introduced as an option in a poll on the subject of most wanted features. Could this be further explored? Consider it this way: you´re constantly looking for things to make the rendered faster? Having the option to change individual light intensity/turn on or off/ change the color of, in frame buffer, would mean I could render a 30 minute preview render and get nearly infinite amount of different moods out of it and to my client. That´s a pretty significant speed improvement, no? :)
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Hi people, as much as I too would want to see all those mentioned post and notsopost effects like multilight directly in corona's vfb, for now the only good\useable solution is VFB+ which you can test\buy at http://www.monotoneminimal.com/vfb/featureset , and that one is not just a compromise for the time being but is already quite good as it is or at least is good enough for me.
Why? Well :
Zdepth based dof (one of the best I've seen - even comparable to a lenscare's results), vignetting, render history (with a\b version split slider), bloom effect, chromatic aberrations, quite good color corrections, lut and icc support, nice filmic tonemapping and even a f***ing glorious firefly reduction filter which can save a lot of rendertime in some cases - it is almost like some sort of adobe camera raw\lightroom\arionFx on steroids directly inside 3ds max + you can save all those adjustment as a presets for later use like in those three. Plus it is quite affordable and easy to use and I think it is no less than a must have for any daily max user and it is independent of used renderer as it is render agnostic and work as some sort of a native max's framebuffer's extension.
Though the native corona multilight or maybe, some even better than that of a vfb+'s implementation of those abovementioned effects would be of course quite welcome, I think the team should concentrate on more important tasks like, render to texture support or out of core rendering as those two are really important missing features right now which can be keeping some people away from Corona.
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Ha, forgot about that. I wanted to test it maybe 3 times and always forget..
looks amazing
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Ha, forgot about that. I wanted to test it maybe 3 times and always forget..
looks amazing
It not just looks amazing it IS amazing ))
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VFB+
I just watched the product demo, damn it looks nice. When the video was over I thought to myself, well, time to empty my wallet. Then i scrolled up and saw the price was 19$, what a steal. Gonna buy it straight away and give it a try. I've been using ArionFX. Thanks for spreading the word.
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20 dollars, it's steal :- )
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Antanas, maybe stupid question from my side, but how do you save with correct gamma from classic framebuffer (with VFB+) ? No matter what I do I end up with double-gamma .exr ....
Non-linear files (jpeg, tiff) work, simply by speccing them as 2.2 override (because internally 3dsMax decided the internal gamma for output is 2.2, no longer is this value exposed, and automatic gets it right only inside Corona framebuffer). This changes randomly based on my old scenes, maybe I should rewrite it finally in ini to stay 1.0 dammit. Because 3dsMax just doesn't want to remember it...
But why doesn't override gamma work ? It doesn't matter what I write there, it will save with 2.2 (or whatever is internal based on the current scene). only. wtf
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Tried vfb+ and while it has some great features, I'd much rather just have glare/bloom vignetting and curves in the corona vfb.
I reckon a couple of extra options won't hurt the simplicity of it :)
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Antanas, maybe stupid question from my side, but how do you save with correct gamma from classic framebuffer (with VFB+) ? No matter what I do I end up with double-gamma .exr ....
Non-linear files (jpeg, tiff) work, simply by speccing them as 2.2 override (because internally 3dsMax decided the internal gamma for output is 2.2, no longer is this value exposed, and automatic gets it right only inside Corona framebuffer). This changes randomly based on my old scenes, maybe I should rewrite it finally in ini to stay 1.0 dammit. Because 3dsMax just doesn't want to remember it...
But why doesn't override gamma work ? It doesn't matter what I write there, it will save with 2.2 (or whatever is internal based on the current scene). only. wtf
I have settings like this and VBF+ saves files with correct gamma
Max 2014
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lol I didn't even looked at those preferences :- D thank you Bormax, that should be it.
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Wow! there has been some great back and forth feedback on this thread with some additional solutions while we wait for Corona to hopefully add these items in the next upgrade. Please Corona! You have a really nice product currently. I like the results I'm getting with it!
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I just have to say thanks to Juraj for bringing up the VFB+ plug-in. So cheap and so great! Having filmic tonemapping and curves, exposure etc.. with region rendering at one place is priceless.... (I know, some great things like adaptivity and region rendering will be coming to 1.4 but still... amazing plug-in) It feels weird now that I haven't heard about vfb+ before...
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maybe Render Legion S.R.O should 'acquire' VFB+ for millions of euros and add the technology to their own product?
like i said, i did try it but wasn't completely comfortable with the UI. Maybe I should persevere? Are you still using it Juraj?
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I do, quite satisfied so far. Like the UI too, I dislike the clunkiness and size of Corona's framebuffer, if I keep the right side panel open, it eats up 10 perc. of my monitor and fucks up my view ratio, I don't like zooming out of image, 2560px is already too little. If I close it, I loose all options. The Max framebuffer has lot of unneccesary stuff on other hand, but the VFB+ addon purely is very clean.
To anyone else using it right now, does it work with Distributed rendering ? (I have no idea if DR needs Corona framebuffer or not).
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[...] does it work with Distributed rendering ? (I have no idea if DR needs Corona framebuffer or not).
Yes it works. You can even DR into standard Max FB - makes no difference.
Good Luck!
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like i said, i did try it but wasn't completely comfortable with the UI.
I'd be happy to hear about your reservations.
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going to give it another go but I found the UI a bit messy and slow. Colour temp in kelvin would be nice. saving setting per camera sounds nice but not quite sure how it works
If corona added vignetting in the corona camera mod and curves to their frame buffer that would do me. (and region rendering!)
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Colour temp in kelvin would be nice
Ah true to this. It has to be both as Kelvin adjustment is something I use far more often to make minor color movements in the whole image, instead of full counter white balance.
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Just tried going to http://www.monotoneminimal.com/ I see nothing but white space. Anyone else experiencing this?
Cheers,
Richard
www.3dfov.com
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Just tried going to http://www.monotoneminimal.com/ I see nothing but white space. Anyone else experiencing this?
I can confirm this (firefox). Apparently the site is down for a moment. Maybe try again later.
BTW, be careful with first post in the forum containing full of links - i almost confused you with spambot and was about to mark you for a ban ;]
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yeah, me too :D I clicked the link and then I was like "fuck did I just click a spam link?!" :D
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Have I mentioned how much I love Wordpress? :(
Thanks for letting me know, I'll work on fixing it ASAP.
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It's back up now.
Thanks again.
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My dream:
- vraylenseffect
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- Maxwell multilight
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- Colimo texture/color changer
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- A realtime DOF from ?