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Chaos Corona for 3ds Max => [Max] General Discussion => Topic started by: Polymax on 2013-05-31, 11:42:46

Title: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: Polymax on 2013-05-31, 11:42:46
1. Why caustic exists, but in the water it is not visible in the bidir mode?
2. Why is the shadow of the water shifted relative to the caustic?
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: Ondra on 2013-05-31, 12:07:11
1&2: physics.
caustics are shifted because the light from sun is refracted. This means it changes direction and hits the surface in different place that it would on its own, forming the caustics and shadows, such as here:
(http://www.gallerythe.org/artist/houlding/caustic2.jpg)

The reason your results look unnatural is because your setup is unnatural - your media are not correct, some of the rays hit the floor while in air and other hit the same place while in water. To correct this you would either have to model the water twosided, or make the pool water enclosed, like in reality. Then you would no longer get such effect.

The caustics visible through water are not missing, it just has MUCH higher variance, because it represents an SDS (specular-diffuse-specular) light path, which is extremely difficult for BDPT to render. You have few fireflies there, these fireflies are so bright, that they "contain the entire caustics intensity from surrounding areas" (simplified), so it is unbiased in the end (no energy is missing). To render it efficiently you would need different light connection strategy, like progressive photon mapping, or VCM (which is BDPT + progressive photon mapping combined). Try it and you will se the missing caustics.
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: Polymax on 2013-05-31, 12:27:03
1. I am ashamed! I missed it ((
2. Here everything is clear!
Thanx for answer!
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: jjaz82 on 2013-05-31, 18:14:08
this is a common problem in many Unbiased render, also maxwell etc.
if I remember correctly thearender had solved the problem of time to get caustic  through dielectric material, but i don't know how..
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: Ondra on 2013-05-31, 18:22:56
this is a common problem in many Unbiased render, also maxwell etc.
if I remember correctly thearender had solved the problem of time to get caustic  through dielectric material, but i don't know how..
This is also problem in biased renders, they just dont bother to even try to render this.

BTW: the problem is now solved in 90% instances with Vertex Connection and Merging (http://www.smallvcm.com/), which Corona implements ;)
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: jjaz82 on 2013-05-31, 18:36:51
ondra, not a day goes by that you do not make us a nice surprise :D
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: Ondra on 2013-05-31, 18:49:52
this is implemented since last fall ;)
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: jjaz82 on 2013-05-31, 19:10:52
ok surprise for me :D hi hi
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: jjaz82 on 2013-06-14, 21:26:59
Polymax have you tried bidir with glass in hybrid mode? i know it's a fake but maybe in some cases can work..
this is my test...

Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: Ondra on 2013-06-14, 23:23:38
Polymax have you tried bidir with glass in hybrid mode? i know it's a fake but maybe in some cases can work..
this is my test...
This is resul with which algorithm?
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: jjaz82 on 2013-06-15, 01:09:41
Bidir.. pt + pt
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: Ondra on 2013-06-15, 01:39:53
so bidir - primary+secondary solver choices get ignored when using bidir. Just switch to VCM and you will get nice caustics without fakes (with solid glass)
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: jjaz82 on 2013-06-15, 07:39:19
ohh... perfect... :D
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: iliyang on 2013-06-15, 11:05:13
To reduce the noise in the caustics, make the ground plane as small as possible. The larger it is, the more photons traced from the sun are wasted.
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: Ondra on 2013-06-15, 11:52:21
To reduce the noise in the caustics, make the ground plane as small as possible. The larger it is, the more photons traced from the sun are wasted.
Unfortunately when using sun you cannot break it that easily ;)
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: jjaz82 on 2013-06-15, 14:39:53
hi Ondra.. it's normal this shadow without caustics?
illumination by a corona light, type rectangle, intensity 50000, dimensions 80 x 70 cm
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: Ondra on 2013-06-15, 15:23:02
i dont know the scene configuration, but never use bidir with hybrid glass, I havent tested it, and it is not needed.
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: jjaz82 on 2013-06-15, 16:10:24
sorry, the file name it's wrong.. in this scene i didn't use hybrid glass..

this is an other test.. looks perfect.. :)

Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: SLOM on 2014-01-14, 09:11:25
Good afternoon.

tell me how this scene
(http://images.sevstar.net/images/62227587501825801098_thumb.jpg) (http://"http://images.sevstar.net/viewer.php?file=62227587501825801098.jpg")

achieve caustics on the ceiling and walls?
thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: SLOM on 2014-01-27, 13:48:20
how to get rid of the noise in the caustic?
to render not so long gone
it is possible as it is in a separate layer to render it?

(http://images.sevstar.net/images/61129541131584956197.jpg)
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: Ondra on 2014-01-27, 15:56:03
Did you increase max sample intensity value?
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: Utroll on 2014-01-27, 19:31:11
if it's a whole sea that we may see outside thru left windows, you could may be fake it as well, don't know how it's made but in worst scenario it's a cpu killer :)
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: SLOM on 2014-01-27, 22:35:25
Did you increase max sample intensity value?

if you know that? I did not understand what this parameter influences?
(http://images.sevstar.net/images/15589828644638736379.jpg)

that he was 20 that the difference nezametil 9999

left outside the windows is not the ocean flooring :)
(http://images.sevstar.net/images/35089880067709820578.jpg)

the pool water is just a plane with noise
tried it yet volumetric water, the result is almost the same
Title: Re: Bidir - problem with visibility caustics
Post by: gerbilho on 2014-07-06, 19:04:28
This is interesting, I'm trying to make caustics in a swimming pool and nothing worked so far.
The water is a single plane with noise and turbosmotth.
Water is refractive and has caustics enabled. Illumination is by corona sun.
The rest are default settings. What am I missing here?