Chaos Corona Forum

Chaos Corona for 3ds Max => [Max] I need help! => Topic started by: StephenMF on 2015-02-26, 15:23:20

Title: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: StephenMF on 2015-02-26, 15:23:20
Does anyone know why i am getting different results from the latest release, compared to older versions of Corona:.
Look below:
The top image is the original correct image.
The bottom is the new "too dark" image from V1

Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks.
Stephen
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: maru on 2015-02-26, 15:27:06
To me this looks like the background (environment) is missing in the second picture. Here is a similar thread: https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php/topic,7177.0/topicseen.html
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: romullus on 2015-02-26, 15:32:07
Did you touch gamma settings in older version?
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: Monster0605 on 2015-02-26, 15:42:50
I think that is one Gamma Problem.
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: racoonart on 2015-02-26, 15:44:57
The lower one is definitely missing gamma. Maybe your 3dsmax gamma settings are turned off or you saved the image with gamma 1.0
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: StephenMF on 2015-02-26, 16:02:01
Your comments made me review the scene and i think i found the problem.
At my home computer (newest render) the scene would report a missing file:
"C:\Program Files\Autodesk\Mudbox 2015\textures\Lightprobes\horizon.exr"

I just ignored that, because I never added this file to the render (I think) and I am guessing that is the problem.
I will confirm when I get home later today.

Thanks
MyOwnFault-Stephen
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: StephenMF on 2015-02-26, 20:05:50
OK back.
The missing texture was not the problem.
The missing texture was part of a hidden human-size-template from mudbox.
It is now removed.

Customize / preferences / Gamma and LUT are the same on the two computers!?!? (anywhere else i need to look?

There should be no other interfeering bg/environment isssues, they are both the same.

Any other ideas?
NotMyFault-Stephen :-)
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: Thom Coffee on 2015-02-26, 21:02:22
If you use vray camera, change it to default 3dsmax camera and see if the problem still exists.
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: maru on 2015-02-26, 21:07:14
If you are using a bitmap as background (or enviro or light or whatever), check what is the gamma setting in the window where you are loading the file. I mean this place:
(https://corona-renderer.com/stuff/helpdesk/normal/gamma-auto.jpg)
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: StephenMF on 2015-02-26, 22:01:38
Some more info here.
I have been rendering this image from two computers, both had A7.2
Without changing anything in the scene, only upgrading to V1.0 this happened.

I am using a normal camera...
I have not installed v-ray
I am not using an image input for light, bg or anything (gamma).
For BG I am just using the RGB color 0,3,7 (very dark blue) I realize that this dark blue is amplified (or something) in the correct/original image, but not sure how???


Stephen
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: StephenMF on 2015-02-26, 22:07:49
Maybe there is another clue in the preview of my two material editors?

Can it be windows color management or something?

Stephen
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: racoonart on 2015-02-26, 22:17:22
The right one definitely does not have gamma correction enabled.

[Edit] Make sure the 2 checkboxes on the right are also enabled (affect color selectors and affect Material editor)
(http://instatuts.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Master-Plan-Rendering-3dsmax-Photoshop-Instatuts-f13.jpg)
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: StephenMF on 2015-02-26, 22:22:09
Here the two windows are together.
Front one, is the bad render.
Back one is the correct render.
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: racoonart on 2015-02-26, 22:33:20
I'm surprised A7 did not render it like 1.0 . The new one in 1.0 is behaving correctly, cause gamma correction is off, the older one is technically "wrong". What happens if you activate gamma correction in 1.0 ?
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: StephenMF on 2015-02-26, 22:36:27
I can enable it, but not sure what the value should be... Have played around with it before i posted first.
It gets almost right. BG color is much more "correct" but sails that are self illuminated a bit are way off... too saturated.

I'll keep playing around with it.
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: racoonart on 2015-02-26, 22:37:08
it should be 2.2 and nothing else. It's not a creative tool.
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: StephenMF on 2015-02-26, 22:42:39
New quick render with gamma enanbled in V1.0
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: StephenMF on 2015-02-26, 22:51:08
Looks like if i turn on gamma 2.2 on the V7.2 machine the renders come out exactly the same...

unfortunately that result is not what I am looking for.
:-\

Stephen
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: racoonart on 2015-02-26, 23:09:00
Yes, that's correct and expected.

You had been using 7.2 without gamma correction but Corona assumes and requires a gamma 2.2 workflow for correct output. For some reason 7.2 already saved in gamma 2.2 that's why your old render looked brighter than in 1.0

The problem is: your textures were not properly gamma corrected back than, they were loaded in a way that made them look brighter than they are now. With gamma correction enabled, they get the proper correction applied and look the way the are supposed to look (like the textures you have on your hdd). So, now it's correct, back then it was incorrect.
To achieve the same look now you would have to load each texture with an gamma override of 1.0 in the file open dialog (which would again be technically false but it would look the same)
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: Thom Coffee on 2015-02-26, 23:46:56
Looks like if i turn on gamma 2.2 on the V7.2 machine the renders come out exactly the same...

unfortunately that result is not what I am looking for.
:-\

Stephen

SpehenMF have you tried my method? Ofcourse if you have used vray camera in the scene. I had the same problem and it helped me.
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: maru on 2015-02-27, 10:12:07
Here is a guide on correct gamma settings:
https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/5000515647
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: j_forrester on 2015-02-27, 19:46:33
If you are using a VrayHDRI loader I now believe the render multiplier is not being taken into consideration. It seems only the overall multiplier is. Try setting your overall multiplier to the older multiplier number x current render multiplier.

Basically if your old multiplier was 0.1 and 10 for render multiplier. Now change your overall multiplier to 1 i.e 0.1 x 10. Maybe see if this helps.
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: Image Box Studios on 2015-02-28, 08:21:46
Hi..So we should use Automatic for diffuse and override 1.0 for bump/normal map.

but what should i choose for reflection/glossiness[b/w map]. i mean to say automatic or override 1.0.
Thank you.
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: juang3d on 2015-03-01, 13:07:23
Put gamam always to 2.2 in all the fields and you'll be safe working with linear workflow, after that render to 32bit exr and you can play as much as you want with color, gamma, exporsure, etc... in comp.

Cheers!
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: Image Box Studios on 2015-03-01, 17:42:07
Put gamam always to 2.2 in all the fields and you'll be safe working with linear workflow, after that render to 32bit exr and you can play as much as you want with color, gamma, exporsure, etc... in comp.

Cheers!

Thank you juang ..but if you visit this link the process is totally different: https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/5000515647

So what is the right way for correct output? i am getting confused.and you said put gamma always 2.2 in all the field but it is very disturbing to put 2.2 value every time manually. we are facing this problem with version 1.0 but alpha 7.2 worked well and i did not put 2.2 values every time.

i am also sharing here two results on same pc but in different scene files. and the bitmaps look totally different into material editor for a same object[BOOKS]...i don't know why is this happening...i would really thankful if anyone suggest the right way.

 Both scenes have same gamma settings on same computer but the book object's map,material slot and gamma is looking different on both scenes..why is this happening....both files on version 1.0.

(http://s18.postimg.org/o3jwfps09/gamma_settings.jpg)
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: juang3d on 2015-03-01, 20:58:18
maybe I did not explained myself right.

When I say put 2.2 everywhere I mean in the settings tab (I forgot that they removed the additional gamma spinners and now there is only one spinner hehehe), you can forget about the load texture or save image dialogs, they will be automatically managed by max unless you specify a different thing manually, you should do that to load Normal maps and such type of maps, but that's it.

From the link you gave here:

"In 3ds Max 2014 or newer it is not required to alter any settings when saving any types of rendered images. "

and

"When loading ordinary bitmaps (for example into "diffuse" slot), you should always use "Automatic" gamma setting. "
"When loading bump, displacement or normal maps, use gamma override 1.0."

All this is correct, that link is all correct :)

About the texture difference, try manually reloading the texture, I mean, create a new "bitmap" node and manually load the texture there, also try resetting Corona settings, but I bet is the bitmap node, there are times when max gives these type of errors with bitmaps when you change Gamma inside an ongoing project.

Cheers!
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: Image Box Studios on 2015-03-01, 21:44:19
maybe I did not explained myself right.

When I say put 2.2 everywhere I mean in the settings tab (I forgot that they removed the additional gamma spinners and now there is only one spinner hehehe), you can forget about the load texture or save image dialogs, they will be automatically managed by max unless you specify a different thing manually, you should do that to load Normal maps and such type of maps, but that's it.

From the link you gave here:

"In 3ds Max 2014 or newer it is not required to alter any settings when saving any types of rendered images. "

and

"When loading ordinary bitmaps (for example into "diffuse" slot), you should always use "Automatic" gamma setting. "
"When loading bump, displacement or normal maps, use gamma override 1.0."

All this is correct, that link is all correct :)

About the texture difference, try manually reloading the texture, I mean, create a new "bitmap" node and manually load the texture there, also try resetting Corona settings, but I bet is the bitmap node, there are times when max gives these type of errors with bitmaps when you change Gamma inside an ongoing project.

Cheers!

Hi....i am using max 2014 and set gamma to 2.2. but if i use automatic when load texture onto diffuse slot the result become wrong. and if i use override value to 2.2 the result become good.   see the image attached. one with automatic gamma and another with 2.2 override. and 2.2 overide gamma output look correct and good....and above link on corona website explains that use automatic for diffuse....so what should i do.
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: PROH on 2015-03-01, 21:59:07
Hi. Seems that your Max behaves different than it should. So just to be sure:

1) Have you tried to save the file with gamma/lut enabled (2.2), close file, close Max, restart Max and reload the file?

2) Have you installed the latest SP for v2014?

I'm running Corona v1.001 in demo mode on MaxDesign 2014 SP5, and haven't had this problem (yet).
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: maru on 2015-03-01, 21:59:33
if i use automatic when load texture onto diffuse slot the result become wrong. and if i use override value to 2.2 the result become good.
Could you check how the bitmap looks in your native system image viewer or some other graphic application?
Title: Re: difference in renders from v.1 and A7.2
Post by: juang3d on 2015-03-01, 22:39:13
Another thing, did you created a new bitmap node?

Don't just load another texture inside the same bitmap node, but destroy the old one, clear it out adn then create a new one and see hat happens, also do this after you save the file with the gamma settings already configured.

Cheers.