Chaos Corona Forum
Chaos Corona for Cinema 4D => [C4D] I need help! => Topic started by: wsiew on 2023-11-16, 16:13:28
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Hi,
I have a problem with the display of small, round bar elements in my counter design. The flatter the angle of view of the camera on the counters, the more the elements disappear. They become a smooth surface.
I have already tried:
- to use a different sky (HDRI)
- sometimes with and sometimes without the sun and with different angles
- Striplight in front of the raw rod elements with different angles
- smaller IOR of the wood material (for example less than 1.2)
- less reflection in the wood material
The only thing that makes the elements visible is the change in the camera position. The camera must be pointed exactly frontally (at right angles) to the counter as in picture 2. This works. But it would not be the perspective I need. For example, I need a perspective like in picture 1 and the elements disappear there.
Is there anything I can change in the render settings to make the elements visible? Or is there another solution?
Best regards, Wolfgang
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Are those geometry, or normal / bump / displacement maps? Are you using denoising?
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Also, is this IR or a final render?
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It's real geometry.
No Different with denoise or without denoise.
It's a final render.
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How does it look with the standard renderer? Any chance you can share your scene with us? If so, there's a link for that in my signature below.
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@Beanvision: I've uploaded the File (with Assets) to: „Corona Uploader l Upload“.
I post in the uploader the message:
To Beanvision: This is the File with Assets for the Problem on Topic: Elements disappearing (https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=41393.0)
Best regards, Wolfgang
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@Beanvision: I've uploaded the File (with Assets) to: „Corona Uploader l Upload“.
I post in the uploader the message:
To Beanvision: This is the File with Assets for the Problem on Topic: Elements disappearing (https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=41393.0)
Best regards, Wolfgang
Thanks a lot, I'll check it out!
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Okay, I have had a look and do not see any issues as the geometry is still there. I think the issue is the viewing angle and light combination. If I add a light next to it and zoom the camera in you can see that it hasn't disappeared. ;)
(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41393.0;attach=190649;image)
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I think it could be that there's simply not enough resolution in your final render to resolve finer details. Rendering to higher resolution should help. You can also try to render twice as large resolution than you need and then downscale the image in post. That would greatly help with antialiasing. If you'll go that way, remember that you don't need to render the image as clean as you'd normally do - downscaling will hide significant portion of noise.
Another option you could try is to add some colour variation to the crevices with Corona AO. You can use darker, slightly desaturated version of that same wood texture in occluded areas to simulate dust and dirt. That should help to discern details at oblique angles a little bit better and also improve realism of your scene overall.
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Yes, I already wrote above that it's probably a lighting or camera angle problem. And I also know that my elements haven't disappeared ;-)
But I can't change my entire lighting and camera setup because of this problem.
The point of this scene is to show the counter and some of the surroundings. That's what I set up the camera for. And the light is already the way it will be installed later.
1: This is how the perspective should look. You can see the elements on the right, but not on the left.
2: I have now changed the perspective. One element is now halfway visible, but all the others to the left of it are still blurred. And they have disappeared on the right.
The light remains the same, only the camera is shifted. It's certainly not a problem with the light, but with the camera angle. I also tried changing the focal length of the camera: From wide angle to telephoto. But that doesn't help either.
I'll say it again: if the camera is looking vertically at the elements, you can see them. But the counter has an L-shape. So it doesn't matter how I position the camera, it will never be perpendicular to all the elements. It's not a problem of light. And I can't change the perspective because I have to show the counter like this.
I wanted to know whether I could change something in the render presets, for example.
In image 3, I simply rendered the whole thing with a clay material (physical) and theCinema 4D internal physical renderer. Here you can see all the elements.
This is a corona problem, isn't it?
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If I increase the resolution, you can see something, but not clearly. So I would have to render it in a monstrous resolution so that the elements are visible. That is not possible.
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If I change the lighting and replace the Corona bitmap for a C4D bitmap set to MIP filtering, I seem to get better results.
(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41393.0;attach=190661;image)
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Another thing that has me thinking is that in the real world these ''tube'' features would be constructed from different sections of wood and applied to the panel, in the render the wood texture is applied across all of them making it look like one plane. Perhaps some randomization for each ''tube'' will also help here?
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In image 3, I simply rendered the whole thing with a clay material (physical) and theCinema 4D internal physical renderer. Here you can see all the elements.
This is a corona problem, isn't it?
No, that is not Corona's problem. If you'd completely turn off GI and make the shadows pitch black, like in your C4D example, Corona too would not have issues to discern those tiny details.
I wanted to know whether I could change something in the render presets, for example.
You need more contrast between lit and unlit parts of relief. You could try either to add AO, like i said in my previous message, or you could increase reflectivity of the wood, so that some parts of the panel would catch highlights and help distinguish details from single colour wooden block. Randomizing mapping, as suggested by Benz also could help, unless the panels are carved from single wooden block in rl.
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Hi,
thanks for your help. I understand it's not a corona problem!
It's a problem with the resolution. I would have to render it in a resolution that can show the elements. But that is not possible because of the render time. Other tips are also not possible. For example, more gloss for the wood material. Our client wants the wood with very little sheen and we need to visualize it that way. I also tried randomize mapping, but the result is the same.
The only solution I found is to increase the distance between the narrow bar elements. This is the result.
So I can say: I have learned a lot ;-)
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
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Rendering with higher resolution would not solve your problem. If your final display size is 1920x1080 for example, rendering it at 4k will take a lot longer, but since your final display size is 1920x1080, all those extra pixels are lost when it is scaled or sampled back down the needed size. Make sense?
If you can't change the main lighting, then as noted above, randomize the material and add a tiny bit of reflection. In real life, there are many times you cannot see certain details based on the angle. Photographers cheat all the time by adding a subtle light just to catch certain edges or add reflections. So you're not changing your lighting, just adding a cheat code.
Also, make sure your edges are not perfectly sharp. Can't quite tell from the renders, but they look like they need a little rounding or beveling. That will also help catch light.