Chaos Corona Forum

Chaos Corona for 3ds Max => [Max] Bug Reporting => Topic started by: Tanner on 2023-06-23, 18:42:32

Title: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Tanner on 2023-06-23, 18:42:32
I just updated to v10 for 3ds Max this morning, eager to take advantage of the MappingRand and Triplanar overhaul but it's gotten worse in terms of speed material editor speed. I noticed in the blog release that there were improvements to the material editor speed but it's slower now than it was with 9.2.

Even with Rendering disabled, if I have the MappingRandomizer with a bitmap plugged in, I have to wait tens of seconds between each input for the values.  Even plugging a map into the input or dragging from the output into a slot in another map or material locks up SME. It's not just MappingRand and Triplanar, it's connecting anything in SME that takes time now where it didn't before.

I'm using 3ds 2020.3.8, Corona 10, Windows 10 22H2, 128GB RAM, Quadro P3200 6GB.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: romullus on 2023-06-23, 19:54:41
I think that's because now Corona tries to show correct material preview in viewport with triplanar and mapping randomizer, while in older versions it was just showing simple maps. To be honest, i'm not the biggest fan of this strive to show as accurate materials as possible, because of the lags, which is absolutely killing productivity. This is especially bad in recent 3ds Max versions, where show material in viewport is enabled by default.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Tanner on 2023-06-23, 20:14:31
I agree, it'd be nice to have a setting in the Corona System Settings where you can dictate fast viewport representation or typical (typical obviously being the way it is now). We have the ability to say we prefer glossiness over roughness, we should be able to have a setting for default VP display.

But I definitely started to notice a slowdown with the Distance Map in the same regard. Even though there isn't a visual representation of the distance map in the viewport, it makes working with that node a bit too slow.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: romullus on 2023-06-23, 21:39:32
Distance might not be displayed in viewport explicitly, but it still can be used to drive real-time effects, like scattering, displacing, etc. I think that means it has to be evaluated constantly, hence the slowness with complex meshes.

I agree, it'd be nice to have a setting in the Corona System Settings where you can dictate fast viewport representation or typical (typical obviously being the way it is now). We have the ability to say we prefer glossiness over roughness, we should be able to have a setting for default VP display.

I like the idea about the switch between simple and realistic material display. Personally i would probably keep it on simple all the time, since i find realistic material representation in 3ds Max completely useless anyway.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Tanner on 2023-06-23, 22:10:45
I would keep it simple too.  And if I do show materials in the viewport, its typically a bitmap not the material itself. But you can't get rid of it completely, there's probably too many people that find an accurate representation outweighs any performance losses.

Anyway, I hope at least a hotfix could address some of the slowdown issues the new nodes present in SME.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: hurrycat on 2023-06-24, 11:42:31
SME has been the no.1 productivity-killer for me for some years now, mostly due to how 3ds Max handles it. Disabling material previews (bottom-left) improves things a bit, but it remains slow as hell, especially during IR. Wires won't be drawn if you don't click on the map output 3-4 times, the UI constantly freezes etc.

I am using Corona 9 with hotfixes. Has anyone tried 3ds max 2024 (SME has been rewritten i think) to see if it is any speedier?
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: romullus on 2023-06-24, 14:43:07
I am using Corona 9 with hotfixes. Has anyone tried 3ds max 2024 (SME has been rewritten i think) to see if it is any speedier?

While i'm happy with most of the changes in SME in Max 2024, i don't feel that much has been changed in regards of Corona. It still suffers from most of the issues it have in previous versions of 3ds max and itself. Parameter editor is still significantly slower compared to Max'es native renderers and it still gets progressively slower over time. Some UI elements still fails to update while IR is running. I've heard that most of those issues cannot be easily solved by Corona devs, unless they cut support for older 3ds Max versions. Maybe one day, when 3ds Max 2016-18 user base will fall down below certain threshold, we will have much improved Corona experience in SME.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: arqrenderz on 2023-06-26, 05:02:54
Yeah... Vray moved all materials to QT, i asked and Corona just took another road which was the cache, but its no better than the QT road..
I am using Corona 9 with hotfixes. Has anyone tried 3ds max 2024 (SME has been rewritten i think) to see if it is any speedier?

While i'm happy with most of the changes in SME in Max 2024, i don't feel that much has been changed in regards of Corona. It still suffers from most of the issues it have in previous versions of 3ds max and itself. Parameter editor is still significantly slower compared to Max'es native renderers and it still gets progressively slower over time. Some UI elements still fails to update while IR is running. I've heard that most of those issues cannot be easily solved by Corona devs, unless they cut support for older 3ds Max versions. Maybe one day, when 3ds Max 2016-18 user base will fall down below certain threshold, we will have much improved Corona experience in SME.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Marijan on 2023-06-26, 12:26:04
SME has been the no.1 productivity-killer for me for some years now, mostly due to how 3ds Max handles it. Disabling material previews (bottom-left) improves things a bit, but it remains slow as hell, especially during IR. Wires won't be drawn if you don't click on the map output 3-4 times, the UI constantly freezes etc.

Parameter editor is still significantly slower compared to Max'es native renderers and it still gets progressively slower over time. Some UI elements still fails to update while IR is running.

I was really hoping this would be resolved in Corona 10 and Max 2024. There are some speed improvements but as Romullus said I don't feel that much has changed.
Smooth work with material editor while IR is running would be major improvment in productivity.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Ink Visual on 2023-06-26, 12:50:19
Really hope this it a top priority thing to address in Corona 11, if indeed not much has changed.
It's really frustrating that other engines are handling SME much better than Corona does.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: _fosafosa on 2023-06-26, 16:34:57
On top of that, there issues with displaying maps in viewport. These problems do not occur with the 3dsmax default materials...
The "Show Maps in viewport" button with CoronaBitmaps often do not work...
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: NazarVitkovskyi on 2023-07-11, 13:45:02
Hello,

may I please ask somebody to share a scene where you noticed some slowdown/issues?

Use this link for file upload- https://upload.chaos.com/d/qa_corona@corona-renderer.com
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Tanner on 2023-07-11, 14:26:55
Hello,

may I please ask somebody to share a scene where you noticed some slowdown/issues?

Use this link for file upload- https://upload.chaos.com/d/qa_corona@corona-renderer.com

At least for me, the issue wasn't limited to one scene but any scene. I will try to reinstall version 10 this week and provide one of two things:
1. If it is limited to one scene, I'll upload and send it your way,
2. but if it happens even in a fresh file, I'll record it and send the video to you instead.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: NazarVitkovskyi on 2023-07-12, 08:56:15
Hello @Tanner

would be great if submit a scene anyway, even a "fresh one". Also, recording a video showing slowdowns is a good idea.

Thanks.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: NazarVitkovskyi on 2023-07-24, 10:16:26
(Internal ID=1163673412)
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Tanner on 2023-07-24, 13:04:55
Hi Nazar - I totally didn't forget about this, it's been a hectic week. Today I'll try to reinstall and see if I still have the issues.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Tanner on 2023-07-24, 15:21:17
Hello @Tanner

would be great if submit a scene anyway, even a "fresh one". Also, recording a video showing slowdowns is a good idea.

Thanks.

Hi Nazar.  I reinstalled 10 and the issues are still there. Even with the viewport (VP) set to standard and all other VP rendering features set to off or basic, and with the viewport set to display colour not texture, the slowdown still exists. I saved the file and a video for your review. Jump to 2:29 for when the slow down starts.
https://tj-viz.fromsmash.com/Corona10-Slow-SME (https://tj-viz.fromsmash.com/Corona10-Slow-SME) *Link is active for 7 days

Thanks
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: maru on 2023-07-25, 13:22:23
Hi all, we are still investigating, but we have one possible solution (or at least a workaround) for "material editor / viewport freezes for a long time when I change any value in the material / texture":
- Hit the [ + ] button in your viewport
- Select "Configure Viewports..."
- Go to "Display Performance" tab
- Lower the 3 resolution values there
We found out that using large values (like 2048 or 4096) causes massive freezes, while lower values (like 1024 or less) should not be causing any issues. You may need to experiment a bit to find the right balance between the viewport quality and performance.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Tanner on 2023-07-25, 13:53:19
Thank you, Marcin
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: maru on 2023-07-25, 14:57:26
You're welcome, Tanner! Does it mean that this solves the issue for you?
Even if so, please note that some other users may be having other issues with other solutions. This is not a universal fix. :)
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Tanner on 2023-07-25, 16:46:51
It did reduce the stuttering but I ultimately have to downgrade to v9 for a current project. Hopefully a hotfix in the future pulls me back to the latest version.

I do agree with a few others though, if we are using basic/standard viewport quality, the accurate corona material feature should be disabled by default (but perhaps electively enabled in the System Settings tab for Corona Settings) and enabled should the user elect to enable High-Quality Viewport. I know that's a big ask but a checkbox under system settings may be an effective solution.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: maru on 2023-07-25, 17:14:46
It did reduce the stuttering but I ultimately have to downgrade to v9 for a current project. Hopefully a hotfix in the future pulls me back to the latest version.

I do agree with a few others though, if we are using basic/standard viewport quality, the accurate corona material feature should be disabled by default (but perhaps electively enabled in the System Settings tab for Corona Settings) and enabled should the user elect to enable High-Quality Viewport. I know that's a big ask but a checkbox under system settings may be an effective solution.

So you are getting different performance in Corona 9 and 10 when doing the same things? Could you please send us a video recording showing what exactly you are doing? It would be best if we manage to reproduce this.
You can submit a new ticket and attach any files here: https://support.chaos.com/hc/en-us/requests/new


Update: just saw your previous post :)
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Tanner on 2023-07-25, 17:33:29
Yes. The issue - like with others - only arose when you added the feature of applying several maps to one node such as Triplanar or UVWRandomization. And the slowdown only happens when those nodes are applied to a material that is active in the scene. There isn't a stutter if a material hasn't been applied yet. The issues aren't present in any version including 9.3 and older.

And it isn't like my computers aren't up for the task, this has been reproduced on a Dell mobile workstation (i7-8750H, 128GB RAM, Quadro P3200 6GB) and a BOXX workstation with dual Xeon E5-2630v3, 256GB RAM, Quadro M4000 8GB).
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: JoachimArt on 2023-08-24, 19:17:36
Is there any updates on this problem. Its nearly impossible now to tweak materials that are using triplanar and such, because every time you move the color slider one step you have to wait a minute.
Nm, chaning resolution in display performance to 1024 helped quite a bit
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Tanner on 2023-08-24, 20:07:36
Is there any updates on this problem. Its nearly impossible now to tweak materials that are using triplanar and such, because every time you move the color slider one step you have to wait a minute.
Nm, chaning resolution in display performance to 1024 helped quite a bit

It does help but it doesn't alleviate the issue. There are a number of instances where I need the high-res viewport display. Because it hasn't been addressed by a hotfix yet, I have stayed on 9.3. But the Devs are aware and that's half of the battle.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: romullus on 2023-08-24, 20:09:19
Nm, chaning resolution in display performance to 1024 helped quite a bit

Don't be afraid to lower it even more. I have set my display performance settings like this and i have wonderful responsiveness in SME and no observable degradation in viewport textures. Before that i had all three resolutions set to 4096 and work in SME was a nightmare.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Tanner on 2023-08-24, 20:15:24
Interesting... Maybe I'll have to give it another go once I'm done my current project.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: maru on 2023-09-22, 14:31:16
I am not sure if it's related, but we have just released a new daily build of Corona 11 with a fix for Triplanar map performance issues. You can find it here:
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=40442.msg217142#msg217142
 
Please test it and share your results with us.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Tanner on 2023-10-05, 16:05:30
I am not sure if it's related, but we have just released a new daily build of Corona 11 with a fix for Triplanar map performance issues. You can find it here:
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=40442.msg217142#msg217142
 
Please test it and share your results with us.

Thanks Maru! I finally found an excellent opportunity to reinstall 10 and the timing of this hotfix couldn't be more perfectly well-timed. I will test and post back here if I face any additional issues.
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: maru on 2023-10-05, 16:30:50
Just be sure to install V10 HF2, not a V11 daily build - https://corona-renderer.com/download
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: Tanner on 2023-10-05, 16:37:04
I did and I must say it works like a charm. I've only tried with a box but there's been zero stuttering or lag, even when combining a UV Rand and Triplanar together.  I also took romullus' suggestion and set the viewport texture resolutions to 128, 4096, and 4096.

So, thank you for addressing the issues in a hotfix and not leaving it until v11 - its very much appreciated!
Title: Re: SME Very Slow on Corona 10
Post by: maru on 2023-10-05, 17:18:59
Awesome, thanks for confirming!