Chaos Corona Forum

Chaos Corona for 3ds Max => [Max] Feature Requests => [Max] Resolved Feature Requests => Topic started by: Bigguns on 2013-01-11, 19:19:03

Title: Skin shader
Post by: Bigguns on 2013-01-11, 19:19:03
We need a skin shader, and a hair shader too :)

I'm doing character and I think if Corona have a good skin shader, let's say as good as Vray, then I will do some awesome realistic renders :D  I discovered Corona last week, and can't stop making render test!  So fast! wonderfull renderer and the workflow is perfect :S , simple, well integrated,etc.

Can't wait fo the next release :)
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: maru on 2013-01-11, 20:37:12
You mean subsurface scattering?
Brazil had a standard skin shader, it was pretty useless. I think it would be better to add a standard SSS shader and manually tweak it to mimic skin, wax, or whatever you like. It will be implemented for sure.
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Bigguns on 2013-01-11, 23:21:06
I would say both them.

Brazil had a crappy skin shader, don't take this one as a ref please haha. The one that Vray is, is quite good and you can do many things with it.

but, ideally, what we need is a standard SSS that we can multilayers as we want it, so we can customise it and a separate shader, called : Skin shader.

Why ? Because skin  is a very special kind of SSS, it's has not the same properties as let's say a toy with SSS on it... we need a shader dedicated to do skin SSS. I never ever have seen a realistc skin shader or render of a character beeing realistic in an unbiased renderer.. and that's why.. they all have a SSS.. but not a SKIN shader.. that's the point, it's different!

Fryrender had some cool SSS, but no one can mimic great skin as I can in Vray..never ever..

So that's why ideally we should have both shader :)  Otherwise nobody will render characters in Corona, and don't underestimate the importance of having a good SSS, MANY peoples I know, and or company, like let's say Blur, had switched for Vray because of this (of course not just because of this, but it was a big facotr) Ok I may use Corona for Archviz,etc, but I would really like to see what he can do with a true skin shader, I'm sure the result would be astonishing :)

So I cross my fingers and I hope to see a great skin shader, and a hair shader too in a close future :)
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: lacilaci on 2013-01-12, 13:40:12
It needs to be like this...(imho): standard SSS feature in coronaMtl and a separate SkinShader for skin... BUT definitely not like the one Vray has, Mental ray (like this one http://www.ir-ltd.net/mental-ray-skin-phenomena ) or Arnold  have better much better solutions! Some crazy BSSRDF skin shader at speeds corona would be.... fucking awesome!
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: tigre85 on 2013-01-14, 23:00:53
Yes mental ray has so far better skin shader than vray, final render has a good and fast skin shader and again better than vray.
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Ondra on 2013-01-14, 23:17:36
First I'll try something really simple... some guy at siggraph said in his course, that you can nowadays just use brute force for most SSS. So I'll do that to get a really simple implementation with superb quality and minimum setup requirements.
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Chakib on 2013-01-14, 23:42:50
First I'll try something really simple... some guy at siggraph said in his course, that you can nowadays just use brute force for most SSS. So I'll do that to get a really simple implementation with superb quality and minimum setup requirements.

Nice !!!
back to work? :D
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Ondra on 2013-01-14, 23:52:05
First I'll try something really simple... some guy at siggraph said in his course, that you can nowadays just use brute force for most SSS. So I'll do that to get a really simple implementation with superb quality and minimum setup requirements.

Nice !!!
back to work? :D

not yet, 3 more days, then some time to rest.
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: airflow on 2013-01-15, 00:22:48
Bigguns, nice to see you in here. I am doing a project with my Gf as an elven warrior. Using translucency and blurry refractions for soft shadows with a layered specular via a composite material. Its nowhere near as good as Vray, but with tweaking I could get a mentalray level out of it.
Will post at the weekend. Busy with work atm.
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: lacilaci on 2013-01-15, 09:49:39
I guess I should slowly start to work on some kind of monster, for corona :D lol:D
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Paul Jones on 2013-01-15, 09:54:20
Could you post some of your vray images and the vray skin shader ui?
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Bigguns on 2013-01-29, 18:25:02
lacilaci : The old MR skin shader is a pure crap.. and the one in the thread of Lee, was an upgraded one, by a simple individual, was better then the original, but FAR away from Vray. If you say the one Vray has is not good, then you just don't understand how it work.. Arnold is a good one, but it has his own problem too.

tigre85 : I think you never tried the SSS2 in Vray, or just don't understand how it work.. it do not work the same way as the MR one! and it's WAY more simple then mr... and final render have one of the crappiest skin shader out there.. just after Brazil.. no wonder why we never see peoples rendering character in it lol. Look on Cgfeedback, dozen of great character rendered with Vray sss2... The nold MR skin is pure crap, the new sss2 is cool, but can't retani enought details in the SSS even if I boost the resolution of the ligmp like a crazy, past a point, there is not difference... just in the render time we see the diff lol so..

Now, in max2013 there is a new SSS2 skin shader,witch is MUCH better then the old one. The sss feel is very good.. but it still have one of the old problem, and it's a big one to me, the lightmap can't retain enought details when you render in small, let's say 800/600. while Vray retain like 90-95 % of all the details. So if I render in 2k with Vray or in 800 pixel, I get mostly the same result. But in Mr, you get a lot more details when you render at 2k and up.. in fact to compete with Vray in the details retention, you have to render at lest at 2500 pixels height to retain similar details as a 800/600 of Vray..and even Vray still have some more crispy details in the SSS.

airflow: Heay great, can't wait to see it :)

 jonesthesteam : I did post in this post and image, to compare Vray and MR.

Here's an exemple, The new BETA MILA SSS ligtmap free (will be a hidden feature in max 2014 ) with 2 layers of MILA reflection compared to a Vray skin shader with 2 layers of reflection also. Vray has his weak point too,( like no control for the backscatter,etc but there is work around..) but still he retains  more details in the sss wich is crucial.




If you want more details about what make a good skin shader you can PM me :)

Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Ondra on 2013-01-31, 23:29:36
I'll just try to make it the arnold way after the next alpha (no fakes, maximum simplicity). I hope it will work ;).
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Bigguns on 2013-02-08, 17:54:40
Wow great, I like the Arnold skin too, so let's see :) If we can customise it a la Arnold it will  be great for sure :P can't wait!!
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Chakib on 2013-02-08, 21:55:23
Interesting thread, hope to see you next feature for this Ondra !

This my simple test of skin with some P.P... i'm sur with real sss thing will look much better.



Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: yolao on 2013-05-20, 14:40:52
I'll just try to make it the arnold way after the next alpha (no fakes, maximum simplicity). I hope it will work ;).

please can you tell me what`s the status of this?. Not having an skin shader is the only thing that keep me away for me using this great app entirely for all my render needs.
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Ondra on 2013-05-20, 15:47:53
closest date it could be done is at the end of the summer
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: yolao on 2013-05-21, 02:41:11
closest date it could be done is at the end of the summer

Great, thanks Ondra.
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: michsaporito on 2013-06-13, 17:59:44
Hi! where I can found Daniel Craig head 3D model for my experiment with subscattering in Corona Render?
I try with translucent material in Corona...(http://)
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Ondra on 2013-06-13, 18:34:44
holy fuck thats scary :D
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: michsaporito on 2013-06-13, 23:26:52
holy fuck thats scary :D
Yes brother..A translucent Zombie ;)
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: mike_kennedy on 2013-07-04, 21:59:21
That looks good! :) Would you mind sharing the shader setup?
I am doing a character right now...could you a few tips if you are willing!
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Bigguns on 2013-08-06, 17:01:07
it's not looking good at all lol..

Keymaster: How is it the development of that skin and hair shader, I can't wait to testit :)  If you need me to do render test before it's release I would be glad to help :)

Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Ondra on 2013-08-06, 17:34:03
I have not started, and I will do at least DR and interactive rendering first
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Bigguns on 2013-08-06, 22:19:02
ha ok. Can't wait to see your implementation, I'm sure it will be awesome :)  and I can't wait to test it on some characters :)
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Bigguns on 2014-01-06, 16:27:28
Hi Keymaster, how is going that skin shader ? Did you started it yet, if you want someone to test it out i'm your man! :)
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Ondra on 2014-01-06, 16:56:36
It will still take a long time, you need to keep waiting ;)
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Bigguns on 2014-01-06, 21:00:13
Believe me, it's the most important shader ( and feature to me haha ) that corona need right now, and to make it more used and know by other :) for architecture it's already super good, but cannot do any character stuff or cartoon stuff etc..
I'm sure your skin shader will be a good one, can't wait to try it! We need also after a hair shader for character creation :)
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: poko on 2014-01-06, 22:20:42
I'll just try to make it the arnold way after the next alpha (no fakes, maximum simplicity). I hope it will work ;).

Great news:)
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: yolao on 2014-02-02, 14:53:29
Believe me, it's the most important shader ( and feature to me haha ) that corona need right now, and to make it more used and know by other :) for architecture it's already super good, but cannot do any character stuff or cartoon stuff etc..
I'm sure your skin shader will be a good one, can't wait to try it! We need also after a hair shader for character creation :)

It is the most important feature for me as well that i`m waiting in corona.
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: CHRiTTeR on 2014-02-23, 11:43:25
You mean subsurface scattering?
Brazil had a standard skin shader, it was pretty useless. I think it would be better to add a standard SSS shader and manually tweak it to mimic skin, wax, or whatever you like. It will be implemented for sure.

The reason why other renderers offer a specialised skinshader is because you cant do reaslistic skin with a standard SSS material (unless you are  going to model every layer separately).
Title: Re: Skin shader
Post by: Ondra on 2014-06-10, 12:27:30
We have it here: https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php/topic,96.0.html