Chaos Corona Forum

Chaos Corona for 3ds Max => [Max] Bug Reporting => [Max] Resolved Bugs => Topic started by: Dippndots on 2017-04-10, 11:25:34

Title: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Dippndots on 2017-04-10, 11:25:34
EDIT: I'm an idiot with too many tabs open, can a mod please move this to I Need Help

So I have this weird problem as you can see in the attached image. The sphere lights are really noisy, even though the render thinks it has reached 4% noise.

They are corona sphere lights, visible directly only, and using kelvin settings, no maps or anything else used.

Any ideas?

Edit: this is a top down aerial shot of an exterior garden area, in case you're struggling to figure out what you're looking at :P

Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Dippndots on 2017-04-10, 13:49:49
Looks like the root cause was actually the geometry lighting the inside of the building with a lightMTL and bitmap on them to make it look like a furnished interior.
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Ondra on 2017-04-10, 13:54:00
so can we close it?
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Dippndots on 2017-04-10, 13:59:03
I guess so, an object with a bitmap-based lightMTL is always going to be noiser than a plane light right? I guess the best way to do this in future would be a LightMTL that isn't emitting light and have a plane light in front of it actually producing light right?
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Ondra on 2017-04-10, 14:04:12
yep, it complicates the light transport, so render time increase is expected. I would have to see the specific scene to tell more
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Dippndots on 2017-04-10, 14:07:17
Ok, this is probably one of the rare instances I can send you a scene, so I'll put it together by the end of the day, no rush for you though.
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Ondra on 2017-04-10, 14:12:23
ok, upload it to marcin, he can take a look and pre-screen this. I will look at it if it seems like a bug
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Dippndots on 2017-04-10, 14:19:58
ok, is that via the usual private scene uploader?

I guess the only thing to check is why these interior LightMTL lights are affecting the noise level of lights in another lightmix layer?
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Ondra on 2017-04-10, 15:09:10
yes, go for the dropbox uploader from my signature
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Dippndots on 2017-04-10, 15:30:05
ok, thanks
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Dippndots on 2017-04-10, 18:29:26
Hey Ondra, sorry I haven't sent through the scene, I've been testing all day. I fiiiiiinally have nailed it down.

The noise is caused purely by the HDRI lighting the environment. Strangely, the lower the Output Amount is on the HDRI corona bitmap (or 3ds max or Vray HDRI loader), the more time it takes to render the image and reach my 4% noise limit. I've attached a picture at output amount 1 and .01 and as you can see, the .01 takes significantly longer to render and is much more noise-free than the 1.

If you want, I can try to recreate this in another scene and send it over in the morning.
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Ondra on 2017-04-10, 21:36:44
this looks like something we are aiming to greatly improve in Corona 1.7 ;)
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Dippndots on 2017-04-11, 11:55:36
Ok, yes, it looks like we can't render with the HDRI at .01 and then ramp it up using lightmix because the environment lightmix element seems to include influences of the other lights in the scene.

Powering down the lights and adjusting the camera exposure to compensate for the .01 HDRI results in the same behavior as the 1.0 HDRI, which makes sense I guess.

Any ideas on a half-way solution in the meantime? It is prohibiting us from being able to render clean exterior night animations.
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: 4b4 on 2017-04-11, 12:39:56
I'm using the C4D version so not sure if this is relevant in MAX but I've noticed huge slow downs with high numbers of lights and groups. You might be doing this already but if you're using spheres make sure the render perfect box is checked and drop the segments down to the lowest you can. I've found this massively speeds up scene prep and I think is helping render speed / noise reduction too.
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Dippndots on 2017-04-11, 13:12:46
Thanks b4b, I believe in Max, corona sphere lights are changed into a special perfect sphere when possible.
Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: maru on 2017-04-13, 13:24:09
Ok, yes, it looks like we can't render with the HDRI at .01 and then ramp it up using lightmix because the environment lightmix element seems to include influences of the other lights in the scene.
Powering down the lights and adjusting the camera exposure to compensate for the .01 HDRI results in the same behavior as the 1.0 HDRI, which makes sense I guess.
Any ideas on a half-way solution in the meantime? It is prohibiting us from being able to render clean exterior night animations.
All of this is expected. LightMix should be usually used to introduce only minor changes in light intensity and color, not really to turn day into night or vice versa (unless you have the time to allow longer rendering). One "workaround" is using the ">Scene" button in 1.6. This will bake intensities and colors into the scene, and then it should render noise-free. Of course you will then lose the ability to use LightMix in the way it was used before using the >Scene button.

@4b4 there is no "render perfect" checkbox in the Max version, as this is done automatically like Dippndots mentioned.




Title: Re: Extremely Noisy Lights
Post by: Dippndots on 2017-04-13, 13:37:44
Hey Maru, the HDRI i'm using is a dusk one (CG Source 1deg) so the environment is relatively dark and in the original lightmix setup, I had normalized everything so all my lights were .5-2 and my environment was left on 1.

Do you think using 1.6 to bake these in would result in noticeably less noise?