Author Topic: Blender new viewport Eevee (Read 52580 times)

melviso · 2017-07-19, 03:13:08

I am really stunned by Blender's new viewport called eevee. This is going to be huge competition for marmoset toolbag and possibly game engines in the future(once VR becomes a thing in Blender). Makes me wonder why Autodesk isn't implementing something like this in 3dsmax. 3dsmax deserves a better viewport imho. Love 3dsmax but Autodesk seems to be more focused on Maya with each new release.

It's still in early development and they intend to add soft shadows, sss and other stuff quite soon. Autodesk better get 3dsmax viewport upgraded.

lacilaci · 2017-07-19, 07:59:51

Blender cycles is getting disney principled shader and denoising in 2.79 and this PBR viewport in 2.80... Making autodesk run for their money faster and faster :D

Fritzlachatte · 2017-07-19, 10:23:32

Quote

Making autodesk run for their money faster and faster

racoonart · 2017-07-19, 19:57:30

Quote from: melviso on 2017-07-19, 03:13:08

Makes me wonder why Autodesk isn't implementing something like this in 3dsmax. 3dsmax deserves a better viewport imho.

Well, you usually don't care much about your lawn if your house is on fire. They cut back on R&D expenses, software maintenance and people - they fired 10% of their staff "recently", including the complete Viewport dev team for max. So afaik there currently is not one developer left who has been working on the current Viewport technology in max.
But honestly, I don't need a "realtime"/"engine" like viewport if max doesn't even handle tangent/bi-normals correctly :D Normal maps look like crap anyways.

melviso · 2017-07-20, 05:37:29

Quote from: lacilaci on 2017-07-19, 07:59:51

Blender cycles is getting disney principled shader and denoising in 2.79 and this PBR viewport in 2.80... Making autodesk run for their money faster and faster :D

I heard about the Disney shader. Definitely trying it once it's out. I am not happy with the slow development 3dsmx is getting while Maya gets all the attention. I must admit I am loving Blender more as I continue to use it. It's being adopted now by studios as an auxillary tool and some employees are now allowed to use it in projects which is good news. I think the competition is a good for the industry. I remember reading somewhere that Blender was downloaded 6 million times last year and is being downloaded half a million times a month. I am glad I use it from time to time. It's a great software.

@ Fritzlachatte Autodesk better run, there are rumours that they might drop 3dsmax sometime the way Softimage was killed off. Or maybe merge 3dsmax and Maya into one? But I am curious, if they merge 3dsmax into Maya, I wonder if the archviz industry will still embrace it.

Quote from: DeadClown on 2017-07-19, 19:57:30

Well, you usually don't care much about your lawn if your house is on fire. They cut back on R&D expenses, software maintenance and people - they fired 10% of their staff "recently", including the complete Viewport dev team for max. So afaik there currently is not one developer left who has been working on the current Viewport technology in max.
But honestly, I don't need a "realtime"/"engine" like viewport if max doesn't even handle tangent/bi-normals correctly :D Normal maps look like crap anyways.

That's not cool on their part. 3dsmax viewport has been really crapy for a long time. Meanwhile they keep developing Maya's viewport 2.0.

cecofuli · 2017-07-20, 14:56:22

Max installbase is several times bigger than Maya's =) Rumor spreading about Max's death was a popular hobby.

lacilaci · 2017-07-20, 15:10:57

Quote from: cecofuli on 2017-07-20, 14:56:22

Max installbase is several times bigger than Maya's =) Rumor spreading about Max's death was a popular hobby.

Yeah, not max nor maya is going to be abandoned anytime soon... Doesn't make sense with subscription system i guess...

It's just that competition is becoming more and more attractive with every new release.

melviso · 2017-07-21, 01:24:33

Quote from: cecofuli on 2017-07-20, 14:56:22

Max installbase is several times bigger than Maya's =) Rumor spreading about Max's death was a popular hobby.

Really? I have always thought Maya had more users due to it's use in movies, tv, animations, vfx and all. 3dsmax seems used more in archviz and construction/automobile firms. Thus why Maya is getting more features and the supposed rumours.

cecofuli · 2017-07-21, 16:48:40

Try to think how many small arch-viz studios there are in the World, or in you Country or city. Also think how many freelancer too.
And think how many studio there are for movies/VXF etc... studios Maya based there are.

Yes, Maya is used, I think, for AAA movies, animations, etc... etc... but, 3ds max is more popular.

Ondra · 2017-07-21, 22:47:31

Quote from: DeadClown on 2017-07-19, 19:57:30

Quote from: melviso on 2017-07-19, 03:13:08
Makes me wonder why Autodesk isn't implementing something like this in 3dsmax. 3dsmax deserves a better viewport imho.
Well, you usually don't care much about your lawn if your house is on fire. They cut back on R&D expenses, software maintenance and people - they fired 10% of their staff "recently", including the complete Viewport dev team for max. So afaik there currently is not one developer left who has been working on the current Viewport technology in max.
But honestly, I don't need a "realtime"/"engine" like viewport if max doesn't even handle tangent/bi-normals correctly :D Normal maps look like crap anyways.

do you have any info/source on this? AFAIK the viewport team moved to rendering API after nitrous was done

Ondra · 2017-07-21, 22:50:30

Quote from: melviso on 2017-07-21, 01:24:33

Quote from: cecofuli on 2017-07-20, 14:56:22
Max installbase is several times bigger than Maya's =) Rumor spreading about Max's death was a popular hobby.

Really? I have always thought Maya had more users due to it's use in movies, tv, animations, vfx and all. 3dsmax seems used more in archviz and construction/automobile firms. Thus why Maya is getting more features and the supposed rumours.

AD is publicly traded, you can easily google their financials and annual reports, that include breakdowns by application ;)

racoonart · 2017-07-22, 10:40:20

Quote from: Ondra on 2017-07-21, 22:47:31

do you have any info/source on this? AFAIK the viewport team moved to rendering API after nitrous was done

Closest thing I have found is the third post in this thread http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=8248862#post8248862 . It only refers to the shanghai team itself, not their work. Maybe there's something to be found in the "less public" forum but I can't link that of course, or it might be already gone anyways. Afaik it was the Shanghai team doing all the nitrous stuff over the years.

[Edit] Another one, linking the shanghai team to nitrous:
https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-forum/3dsmax-2018-excuse-me-i-seem-to-be-looking-at-2017/m-p/7011596#M135332

melviso · 2017-07-24, 23:47:16

Quote from: Ondra on 2017-07-21, 22:50:30

AD is publicly traded, you can easily google their financials and annual reports, that include breakdowns by application ;)

Thanks for the info. Then why the pandering towards Maya then? Is Maya easier to write code/ incorporate features for than 3dsmax?

Another really nice use of eevee viewport in Blender:

Ondra · 2017-07-25, 08:35:00

Quote from: melviso on 2017-07-24, 23:47:16

Thanks for the info. Then why the pandering towards Maya then? Is Maya easier to write code/ incorporate features for than 3dsmax?

based on how it usually looks in bigger companies, they are not "pandering" in any way (such as "we are putting more developers on maya" or "we are forbidding max developers to add features" - they just have 2 independent teams, each working on single software, and one of them produces more new features for various reasons (such as legacy issues)

melviso · 2017-07-25, 11:38:30

Quote from: Ondra on 2017-07-25, 08:35:00

based on how it usually looks in bigger companies, they are not "pandering" in any way (such as "we are putting more developers on maya" or "we are forbidding max developers to add features" - they just have 2 independent teams, each working on single software, and one of them produces more new features for various reasons (such as legacy issues)

So why does 3dsmax continue to remain stale? Is Autodesk not questioning why this is or they don't care? I can't understand why 3dsmax continues to get a very crappy viewport compared to Maya. Even Maya has a lighter version. 3dsmax does not. Maya has better hair/vfx

3dsmax hair and fur still very much the same. At some point, we are gonna need some of these features like wind, ocean hair for archviz in the possible future. Better tools, easier life :)

Legacy issues? Any chance you can pls elaborate on this?

Ondra · 2017-07-25, 12:52:54

Quote from: melviso on 2017-07-25, 11:38:30

So why does 3dsmax continue to remain stale? Is Autodesk not questioning why this is or they don't care? I can't understand why 3dsmax continues to get a very crappy viewport compared to Maya. Even Maya has a lighter version. 3dsmax does not. Maya has better hair/vfx

This is cliché answer, but is it stale from sales perspective? If the sales are not down, then there is no reason to change anything from the point of view of executives.

Quote from: melviso on 2017-07-25, 11:38:30

Legacy issues? Any chance you can pls elaborate on this?

When you are just adding new features, the code starts to rot and needs to be refreshed from time to time. If you do not do this, you get into technical debt - you add features quickly, but needed repairs/cleanups are not done. At some point, the debt overcomes you and starts slowing down the development. This is why we are doing just cleanups/rewrites for approx 3 months each year. 3ds max has all sorts of 20 years of technical debt accumulated, that slows everything down.

melviso · 2017-07-26, 21:19:03

Quote from: Ondra on 2017-07-25, 12:52:54

When you are just adding new features, the code starts to rot and needs to be refreshed from time to time. If you do not do this, you get into technical debt - you add features quickly, but needed repairs/cleanups are not done. At some point, the debt overcomes you and starts slowing down the development. This is why we are doing just cleanups/rewrites for approx 3 months each year. 3ds max has all sorts of 20 years of technical debt accumulated, that slows everything down.

Okay, I do recall a time when 3dsmax was getting a lot of cool features so what they are doing now is refreshing and cleaning up code. Didn't know that tbh. Thanks for the info.

racoonart · 2017-07-27, 14:24:32

Quote from: melviso on 2017-07-26, 21:19:03

...so what they are doing now is refreshing and cleaning up code.

Well.... let's say it should be what they are doing.

melviso · 2017-07-27, 20:47:23

Quote from: DeadClown on 2017-07-27, 14:24:32

Well.... let's say it should be what they are doing.

But I would wonder why not split the devs into two teams? One that adds new features and the other that cleans up code? Wouldn't that be a better approach. Blender is open source. Probably doesn't have as much devs as Autodesk yet they seem to be up and doing feature wise.

Nejc Kilar · 2017-07-28, 09:58:09

Its probably really hard to develop new features if the underlying code that is supposed to be the foundation keeps changing because it is being updated. I mean it can be done but in smaller, gradual steps.

Maxon is pretty much doing that with Cinema 4D right now - the last 2/3 releases all included a big feature coupled with minor workflow additions. Under the hood they are supposedly rewritting everything.

I think sometimes we as users get a little carried away with how we think things can be changed easily but as most code troubleshooting goes I imagine one small thing can be tied to 100 other big things. Change that thing and the whole system goes weird.

That said, with the leadership and commitment that Autodesk has shown in the past I somehow doubt they've been doing "that much" to the base of the program. Its not a knock off to the dev team but to the organization as a whole - You can't update stuff regularly if you company goals change from week to week. Since most of the functionality (node material editor etc...) presumably just got patched in because they were plugins before, the debt in 3ds max is probably super duper high.

Then again, I could be wrong :)

Ricky Johnson · 2017-07-28, 11:58:06

Quote from: nkilar on 2017-07-28, 09:58:09

the debt in 3ds max is probably super duper high.

I reckon that Autodesk's profit margin is super duper higher than the debt in the code. :)

Even given the magnitude of the task, they could surely employ the resources to deliver a product worthy of the price we all pay endlessly month after month. Obviously the organisation has become too big to act in a decent human fashion.

It's a shame that it would be so impractical for all subscribers to 'down tools' on 3ds max for a month in a coordinated protest of some kind!

melviso · 2017-08-06, 23:02:32

The funny thing is I am noticing some prominent 3d artists are starting to switch to Blender even as an auxillary tool for some side tasks like uv mapping, texture painting, even sculpting. I am guessing it might take another 2 to 3 years before we see awesome stuff for 3dsmax if the cleanup is that big. I still don't get why Blender devs add features with each release compared to Autodesk though. I guess they are making bank enough not to worry about sales as most companies and 3d artists have adopted their apps as far back as 2003 or thereabout and have built their pipeline/workflow as well as inhouse plugins and tools around these software so to switch is gonna be a pretty bad move.

MaterialX from LucasFilm seems cool though I wonder if this is a good thing for renderer devs especially when it comes to competition.

melviso · 2017-08-23, 21:22:48

Really nice stuff in Blender eevee:

melviso · 2018-02-13, 02:33:55

Stumbled on this work using Blender eevee. This is awesome. I wonder what can be achieved when 2.8 branch fully released.

melviso · 2018-03-04, 13:35:35

Rather than create a new thread, decided to post this here. An informative interview of Blender's creator, and Blender's beginnings and its future:

He also talks about eevee, Blender's realtime viewport.

Also you can read more about eevee with some nice demo videos here:
https://code.blender.org/2018/03/eevee-f-a-q/

Nejc Kilar · 2018-03-04, 17:29:30

@melviso,

Thanks for sharing :) Always fun reading about Blender, heh.

So BlenderGuru says 2.8 will feature a massive UI overhaul. I can't seem to find anything of that magnitude being mentioned on the roadmap or on the "teaser" docs available online. Do you perhaps have any idea what he is talking about?

All I found out was the workspace and layers changes... Huh :)

edit: I guess it gets covered in the middle / at the end of the video there. Stupid me :) Fun video but I do think Andrew is a little too "home use" oriented. Maybe thats just my impression.

Benny · 2018-03-04, 19:54:51

That looks incredible. Could anyone give a quick summary of using Blender vs 3ds Max for architecture? Does Evee support HDRI?

Didn't I read a while ago that Corona won't be native in Blender due to some API restriction or something?

melviso · 2018-03-05, 01:11:58

Quote from: nkilar on 2018-03-04, 17:29:30

@melviso,

Thanks for sharing :) Always fun reading about Blender, heh.

So BlenderGuru says 2.8 will feature a massive UI overhaul. I can't seem to find anything of that magnitude being mentioned on the roadmap or on the "teaser" docs available online. Do you perhaps have any idea what he is talking about?

All I found out was the workspace and layers changes... Huh :)

edit: I guess it gets covered in the middle / at the end of the video there. Stupid me :) Fun video but I do think Andrew is a little too "home use" oriented. Maybe thats just my impression.

No worries, nkilar. :- )

I think the UI is okay tbh. Way better than how busy Zbrush is haha. Most 3d artists complain about UI since it's the first thing u encounter when you open a new app. U need to figure out what does what and where the tools are and how they work compared to the softwares you are familiar with. But the truth is it's just like opening a new book you need to read to acquire info or knowledge, they are like hurdles but most times for me, if you have a little patience and take it easy, you are up and doing with the software in no time.

I remember trying it out after 3dsmax and Maya. Blender does have the 3dsmax navigation for viewport but some of the shortcuts differ. In a week or so, the UI was second nature to me. I do understand why to some artists where tools and features are placed or managed is important but for me, I care more about what I can do with it :-)

@ Benny
Blender does pretty much everything 3dsmax does. Even better as it does sculpting, texture painting very well. I hardly have to use external softwares for those. I would suggest you try it out yourself and try and compare because opinions differ based on different artists experiences with it. I do understand most artists find the UI a bit daunting especially coming from 3dsmax or Maya but I have also seen people who have switched successfully after getting a hang of how it works. In architecture, 3dsmax is still the most used in archviz studios. 3dsmax is still awesome by its right and it works very well with a lot of renderers. I think renderers devs find it easier to work with (I may be wrong here).

I am currently playing about with it. Quite pleased with how quick you can get things up and running. No need to bake maps like ue4 and Lumion is quite pricey.

From this video, Yes, Eevee supports hdri:

I don't know where the Corona devs stand with Blender at the moment. Corona Standalone with Blender has bump and displacement problems. Hopefully there is something done towards that. With 3dsmax, this is not an issue though.

Benny · 2018-03-05, 17:18:44

Thanks Melviso, I gave it a look over the weekend and it is very impressive. It must really create a question mark for those looking at Lumion 8 as a real time alternative, which I was initially very impressed with. However, Lumion's funky interface combined with the need to import everything made me feel too much workflow was lost. Having this kind of realtime integrated in an interface that still has powerful modeling and texturing tools is ground breaking.

I need to study it deeper and understand the limitations. As always with realtime you are missing things, and I wonder how Blender works with things like Forestpack, proxies, FBX import and larger scenes. I did a search and although I can't seem to find I remember Ondra saying something about a software, which Corona would not be able to support, that I believe was Blender due to some form of public domain API stuff. I would not want to be dependent on Evee alone in my work, as I have varying quality demands.

melviso · 2018-03-06, 01:44:54

I think Blender handles fbx pretty well. Although Autodesk changes fbx requirements from time to time.

I appreciate everything Ondra has done with Corona. It's a really great renderer and I really appreciate them creating a plugin for Blender. It still manageable with Corona standalone. They have worked hard on getting Corona where it is today. If they decide not to support Blender anymore. That's completely fine and I would respect that decision. I remember playing around with A6 for 3dsmax.That version still delivers awesome quality :- )

romullus · 2018-03-06, 10:56:28

From my experience Blender handles FBX just horribly. I was never able to exchange model between 3ds Max and Blender through FBX. Last time i tried, was about a year ago. Maybe newer Blender is better in this regard?

melviso · 2018-03-07, 02:28:41

Quote from: romullus on 2018-03-06, 10:56:28

From my experience Blender handles FBX just horribly. I was never able to exchange model between 3ds Max and Blender through FBX. Last time i tried, was about a year ago. Maybe newer Blender is better in this regard?

From the interview with Blender's creator I posted, he noted how autodesk are always changing coding for their fbx exporter used with their apps. So Blender always has to update theirs so it can import assets from autodesk seamlessly. The last time I used an fbx from an external app was in December and it worked. I am not sure about now though. I have also imported sketch up files as well directly into blender, I used an addon specifically for that.

Jpjapers · 2018-03-07, 20:23:21

I used fbx from blender into max about 5 years ago and it worked fine.
I have conference calls with the max dev team monthly so next time i might bring the viewport up and see what thy have in store. I know for a fact they are working closely with unreal engine and epic.

Ondra · 2018-03-15, 10:45:09

There are 2 major problems with supporting blender:
1) technical - the API is python, not C++. Which is unnecessary complication for us, and it is slooow, compared to C++. So the plugin would take longer to develop and would be slower than for example 3ds Max one
2) legal - the application is not public domain (what would be fine and we would be developing the plugin right now, probably ;)), but GPL. Which means no closed-source plugins. We would have to complicate stuff even further to get around this one.

We cannot significantly improve upon the current approach with exporter and Corona standalone with these limitations. But if the application is released under less restrictive license (LGPL for example), and adds C++ API, it would immediately jump to the top of our list.

melviso · 2018-03-15, 12:56:05

Quote from: Ondra on 2018-03-15, 10:45:09

There are 2 major problems with supporting blender:
1) technical - the API is python, not C++. Which is unnecessary complication for us, and it is slooow, compared to C++. So the plugin would take longer to develop and would be slower than for example 3ds Max one
2) legal - the application is not public domain (what would be fine and we would be developing the plugin right now, probably ;)), but GPL. Which means no closed-source plugins. We would have to complicate stuff even further to get around this one.

We cannot significantly improve upon the current approach with exporter and Corona standalone with these limitations. But if the application is released under less restrictive license (LGPL for example), and adds C++ API, it would immediately jump to the top of our list.

This sheds light on a lot of things. Thanks for the explanation, Ondra. ;- )

Ondra · 2018-03-19, 10:22:47

I was looking at some more blender stuff... and I really hope they will come up with LGPL C++ API, so we can join in ;)

Nejc Kilar · 2018-03-19, 10:58:56

Quote from: Ondra on 2018-03-19, 10:22:47

I was looking at some more blender stuff... and I really hope they will come up with LGPL C++ API, so we can join in ;)

Perhaps you need to get in touch with the devs, put some pressure on them :)

romullus · 2018-03-19, 14:51:37

Quote from: Ondra on 2018-03-19, 10:22:47

... and I really hope they will come up with LGPL C++ API, so we can join in ;)

Is that possible in principle? I recall that i read somewhere that they would need to get permission from every single person that ever contributed to the Blender...
Anyway, the day you would officially anounce about Corona plugin for Blender developement, would be the day i start to learn Blender :]

melviso · 2018-03-20, 01:37:55

Quote from: Ondra on 2018-03-19, 10:22:47

I was looking at some more blender stuff... and I really hope they will come up with LGPL C++ API, so we can join in ;)

That's cool to know Ondra :- )
Blender is ever changing. I think somewhere down the line, this might happen but when would be hard to tell.

melviso · 2018-03-20, 06:15:06

Realtime raytracing? The impossible is happening?

https://www.polygon.com/2018/3/19/17139358/nvidia-rtx-real-time-ray-tracing-volta-gpu-gdc-2018

maru · 2018-03-20, 19:17:58

Quote from: melviso on 2018-03-20, 06:15:06

Realtime raytracing? The impossible is happening?

https://www.polygon.com/2018/3/19/17139358/nvidia-rtx-real-time-ray-tracing-volta-gpu-gdc-2018

I'm pretty sure it's been happening since some time already. ;)

davemahi · 2018-03-21, 14:51:48

Quote from: Ondra on 2017-07-25, 08:35:00

Quote from: melviso on 2017-07-24, 23:47:16
Thanks for the info. Then why the pandering towards Maya then? Is Maya easier to write code/ incorporate features for than 3dsmax?
based on how it usually looks in bigger companies, they are not "pandering" in any way (such as "we are putting more developers on maya" or "we are forbidding max developers to add features" - they just have 2 independent teams, each working on single software, and one of them produces more new features for various reasons (such as legacy issues)

From what I can see with Maya is they are buying and slapping plugins as fast as they can. I remember reading Vlado commenting about how they are also slapping in lots of bugs into Maya by doing this too. They are more concerned with making Mayas look better, they are actually not going back, or have no time to fix the technical problems with the plugins.
I remember a day when everyone made fun of how many plugins max has or needs. Now I see the same thing going into Maya.

melviso · 2018-03-21, 17:41:19

Quote from: maru on 2018-03-20, 19:17:58

I'm pretty sure it's been happening since some time already. ;)

But this is really cool. So many things are going on graphics wise :- ) Maybe we might be seeing this for next gen gaming consoles? Realtime graphics is catching on pretty fast.

Benny · 2018-04-06, 06:05:27

Quote from: Ondra on 2018-03-19, 10:22:47

I was looking at some more blender stuff... and I really hope they will come up with LGPL C++ API, so we can join in ;)

So is your code or approach different than that of Vray, as I understand there is a Vray version for Blender?

The sad fact is that I'm not particularly interested in learning Blender or jump ship from Max if I don't have to, and it would seem logical that Max sooner or later also will have a PBR viewport. Unfortunately I guess in the case of Autodesk it will mean later. :(

lacilaci · 2018-04-06, 07:39:55

Quote from: Benny on 2018-04-06, 06:05:27

Quote from: Ondra on 2018-03-19, 10:22:47
I was looking at some more blender stuff... and I really hope they will come up with LGPL C++ API, so we can join in ;)

So is your code or approach different than that of Vray, as I understand there is a Vray version for Blender?

The sad fact is that I'm not particularly interested in learning Blender or jump ship from Max if I don't have to, and it would seem logical that Max sooner or later also will have a PBR viewport. Unfortunately I guess in the case of Autodesk it will mean later. :(

Oh man, this is so much more than just having a pbr viewport.
I was using blender for a longer time, but last 3 months almost exclusively (aside some rendering) and while I had to adopt some concepts that seemed weird at first I gotta say it's incredible. I really can't believe what these guys done with this software in past few years. For me, the only thing missing is corona.
But cycles is progressing too (principled shader, cpu+gpu rendering, denoising, filmic color management...)

The 2.8 pbr viewport is to be fully compatible with cycles, same shaders. So you setup everything realtime and then just switch to rendering having the same shaders, no preview needed to check for materials. 2.8 is also to have lot's of workflow changes on how scene is organized etc... And in some video there was even talk that aside making a new game engine that uses eevee rendering they want to build some simplified tools that allows to build interactive scenes.

If you look at how much progress max goes through in a year or two and then compare to blender it's ridiculous. Not mentioning that there are addons for almost anything you want, and even whole customized branches of blender. Whenever I have to open max these days it feels like going 10 years back, slow and full of bs.

Sad thing is, I don't think blender will change it's licensing. I think, it's been working for them so far so I guess, why change?

burnin · 2018-04-06, 13:25:48

... GI cache will come to Cycles too ;)

TomG · 2018-04-06, 13:28:23

Quote from: Benny on 2018-04-06, 06:05:27

So is your code or approach different than that of Vray, as I understand there is a Vray version for Blender?

Which works the same way as far as I know - it certainly uses V-Ray Standalone for rendering, just as the Corona Standalone is used. Presumably for the same licensing reasons :)

lacilaci · 2018-04-06, 13:35:25

Quote from: burnin on 2018-04-06, 13:25:48

... GI cache will come to Cycles too ;)

Interresting, someone over at blenderartist mentioned to me that cycles will focus more on sampling improvement instead of this...

Anyways, regarding corona standalone + exporter, I don't have problem with that but not everything worked and I don't even know if it's being updated often.

Benny · 2018-04-06, 17:33:56

Quote from: lacilaci on 2018-04-06, 07:39:55

For me, the only thing missing is corona.

The other big obstacle is being able to reuse about a decade of collected and produced models and scenes in 3ds Max/Vray/Corona format.

melviso · 2018-04-08, 14:15:33

Quote from: lacilaci on 2018-04-06, 07:39:55

Oh man, this is so much more than just having a pbr viewport.
I was using blender for a longer time, but last 3 months almost exclusively (aside some rendering) and while I had to adopt some concepts that seemed weird at first I gotta say it's incredible. I really can't believe what these guys done with this software in past few years. For me, the only thing missing is corona.
But cycles is progressing too (principled shader, cpu+gpu rendering, denoising, filmic color management...)

The 2.8 pbr viewport is to be fully compatible with cycles, same shaders. So you setup everything realtime and then just switch to rendering having the same shaders, no preview needed to check for materials. 2.8 is also to have lot's of workflow changes on how scene is organized etc... And in some video there was even talk that aside making a new game engine that uses eevee rendering they want to build some simplified tools that allows to build interactive scenes.

If you look at how much progress max goes through in a year or two and then compare to blender it's ridiculous. Not mentioning that there are addons for almost anything you want, and even whole customized branches of blender. Whenever I have to open max these days it feels like going 10 years back, slow and full of bs.

Sad thing is, I don't think blender will change it's licensing. I think, it's been working for them so far so I guess, why change?

I wholeheartedly agree with this post. The progress Blender has made is huge. Even Cycles right now is very intutive and works perfectly. In all honestly, Corona standalone doesn't work well with Blender unfortunately, some things work. Some don't. I am trying to redo somethings for a previous project and some nodes have stopped working, it's being a pain really. I don't also think Blender licensing will change anytime soon. Also eevee has been dope so far testing it. :- )

A lot of people and studios will keep using Autodesk products due to pipeline investments and familiarity. It has been in the industry for a long time so I understand changing pipeline will not be the best option. Still love 3dsmax. Also, the addons on Blenderartists forums being made by the community is just great. How they come up with these features astounds me. Reminds me of the awesome scripts for 3dsmax the community used to make.

Latest awesomeness with eevee:

Ondra · 2018-04-18, 11:21:29

Blender's license and API type does not make the integration impossible (as proved by Vray), but rather difficult, because we need to go through several layers to circumvent the licensing and to convert to C++. Which is why we are not doing it at the moment. That might change if blender becomes more powerful and popular. We are watching it. But no work is being done, no plans to do it right now, and no "threshold" when we would start is set. It might happen, it might not.

melviso · 2018-04-20, 22:56:08

Thanks for the response, Ondra. No worries. Whenever you guys feel the time is right or it's discontinued. It is fine. :- )

I still like 3dsmax and Corona too.

melviso · 2018-04-21, 22:32:52

Me playing with eevee. Still very WIP:
Might flesh it out more. Shadows need more adjustments.

melviso · 2018-05-10, 07:12:33

Another nice animation someone did with Eevee;

melviso · 2018-05-14, 04:35:38

Particle hair support for Blender viewport eevee:

I have been wondering if this becomes competition for game engines. U can move around the scene in real time. Render out animations if u need to. Also u can render using Cycles for more photorealistic results, render out 360 images. I am wondering if they are planning on adding support for VR with the eevee engine. Does this eliminate the need for UE4? Since with this, lightmaps, export and import problems are completely eliminated.

melviso · 2018-05-29, 18:17:08

Testing Blender eevee. Materials are still very WIP. Scale issues will be fixed. This has actually given me some idea about using complete dynamic lighting for ue4. Will have to test it out to use if it's valid. Eevee does not require lightmaps at all for GI calculations. I wonder why this can't be implemented in game engines. Rendered straight from viewport. There seems to be a problem with opengl render whereas sun shadows are accurate in viewport. Render Time: 1 second.