Chaos Corona Forum
Chaos Corona for 3ds Max => [Max] I need help! => Topic started by: tomislavn on 2015-10-06, 15:22:11
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Hey guys, I am currently working on a project that includes lots of snow and I am kinda stuck in making it look realistic - precisely, I'm stuck with creating believable sparkles. Is there anyone who did it before so he could help me a bit with that? Thank you in advance :)
P.S. Here is some quick references about the looks I am trying to achieve.
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Here is my super quick attempt as you asked mostly for the spark effect. Basically I rendered a normal map of tiny rectangles scatter on a plane, then used this map as bump for the snow material. If you look at reference photos, you can see that the snow has tiny flat surfaces in it, and they reflect sun at different angles. The trick is to recreate this. So here it is. It would of course require more material tweaking and would look much better with proper SSS/translucency/refraction.
I am attaching render + max2014 scene.
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Wow! That was quick Maru :)) Thank you very much, it is looking great even with that basic setup! I have downloaded the scene and I am gonna check it out.
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oh my god what a result. looks perfect
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Rendering snow is very problematic because:
Snow in reasonable distance (>2m) can be easily faked with overall bump and SSS. Snow from up close won't be looking good unless you physically model individual snowflakes - at least approximately.
Now, there are solutions to render good looking snow up close, and good looking snow in distance, but good looking snow from up close takes tremendous amount of rendertime and RAM. So when you need to see snow closeup and distant snow in one shots, it can get little problematic, especially in animation where you zoom in to the ground and close up on the snow surface.
If you are doing stills, it could be manageable though.
Here's the result I've got:
(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9691.0;attach=37119)
And I am also attaching scene, but it's Max 2016 and you will also need latest daily because of vector displacement.
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maru & rawalanche, booth are nice results - thx for sharing this with us :)
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Oh my freakin' God Rawa :D that is completely insane! Thank you very much also - will definitely check it out! <3
EDIT: I was breaking my head over why doesn't the scene look exactly like yours (missing small micro displacement)... then I went over and re-read the post and installed the latest daily build :) Working amazingly good right now!!! Love you man! :)
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You can also increase detail by reducing displacement px size to 1 and increasing tiling of the displacement map to 150 or 200%. But I am not sure if it would hold up in large resolutions if you don't have much memory :)
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You can also increase detail by reducing displacement px size to 1 and increasing tiling of the displacement map to 150 or 200%. But I am not sure if it would hold up in large resolutions if you don't have much memory :)
Thank you for the tips :) Yeah, I have tried it but the RAM usage is insane. Since this is some personal project, which I am doing on my home PC, the RAM usage goes up to 16GB in a matter of minutes. Will have to render it on REBUS in the end I guess, but for previews without vector disp. it will be just fine =)
EDIT: Added some quick fiddle from testing environment :) raw render, no post
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brrr....cool :-)
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You can also increase detail by reducing displacement px size to 1 and increasing tiling of the displacement map to 150 or 200%. But I am not sure if it would hold up in large resolutions if you don't have much memory :)
Thank you for the tips :) Yeah, I have tried it but the RAM usage is insane. Since this is some personal project, which I am doing on my home PC, the RAM usage goes up to 16GB in a matter of minutes. Will have to render it on REBUS in the end I guess, but for previews without vector disp. it will be just fine =)
EDIT: Added some quick fiddle from testing environment :) raw render, no post
Hey tomislavn,
Nice results already, without vect. displ.
So did you simply plug the snow noise texture into the material bump slot?
Also, could you save Rawa's awesome test scene in Max2015 please? I have not upgraded yet as I'm right in the middle of a project that needs some nice fresh snow :)
Thank you.
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This snow is insane!
Can i ask how did u make the vector displacement? Is it zbrush noise? Did u sculpt it in zbrush and than exported or is procedural noise ? I'm quite noobie, so please explain if you wish. Thank you.
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once i tried vector displacement maps from zbrush to 3dsmax/corona but i never succeeded. Any helps in relation with the snow and vector displacement thing ? Thank you
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Rendering snow is very problematic because:
And I am also attaching scene, but it's Max 2016 and you will also need latest daily because of vector displacement.
Hello user, can someone convert the 2016 Max scene to 2014?
Thanks a lot!
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Here:
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thx maru!
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Reviving an old thread for C4D users.
Would someone be kind enough to take a screen grab of the material setup so I can have a go at recreating this in C4D?
Cheers
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Bear in mind, it's not converted over to the PBR mode!
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Many thanks Tom, do you know if we've got vector displacement in C4D yet?
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Hi I'm new to 3DS Max. Your scenes can't be used by me cause I use V-Ray as a renderer, not Corona. Why don't you guys use V-Ray? it's the most popular one.
I was thinking of using the sparks.png on my snow. Do I add it in ME through Bitmap like we normally do?
The sparks.png is colored, can I just simply change the color of it so my snow the color of the sparks (purple, blue)?
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Why don't you guys use V-Ray?
Because I like the rotating smiley while rendering. It´s the most popular one. Can´t live without it. V-Ray does not have this.
Good Luck
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I think you've mixed forums, Vray users goes here: http://forums.chaosgroup.com/ ;]
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Hi I'm new to 3DS Max. Your scenes can't be used by me cause I use V-Ray as a renderer, not Corona. Why don't you guys use V-Ray? it's the most popular one.
Not always the most popular things in life are the best solutions too... Be open minded and stop following the mass! :)
Dionysios -
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Why don't you guys use V-Ray? it's the most popular one.
10/10 logic, using vray now ;)
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I use V-Ray as a renderer, not Corona. Why don't you guys use V-Ray? it's the most popular one.
No ? Where are you dude ? Your search on google has been unsuccessful unless it is normal that you redirected to this forum?
But no, there is no Vray answers here...
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Wow so many stuck up idiots in this forum, a beginner can't ask an innocent question.
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Wow so many stuck up idiots in this forum, a beginner can't ask an innocent question.
The reason nobody gave you a straight answer, is because the situation is really funny and everyone decided to troll you. In fact, because it was so innocent.
This Forum is specific to one renderer and it's development - Corona Renderer. The name is in the Url and in the banner of the forum.
Corona competes with V-Ray, as it was designed to work around some issues V-Ray was / is plagued by (Difficulty of setup, too slow in unbaised mode etc.)
As such, you will not find information or help for V-Ray specific setups, as nobody uses it here, or left V-Ray for Corona.
From a technical standpoint V-Ray and Corona target a very similar demographic, so any technical / physical help you can use in V-Ray just as well as in Corona.
But setup and Renderer related problems, you will not find solutions for here.
Romullus had a soft spot in his hearth and already linked the proper place for your questions, the V-Ray forum.
I think you've mixed forums, Vray users goes here: http://forums.chaosgroup.com/ ;]
Good luck in your endeavor :]
ps: You know the trolling is so goddamn tempting, when even the lead dev joins in
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Ondra, if this one doesn't get printed and stuck on your board I'll be sorely disappointed... :)
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Because I like the rotating smiley while rendering...
good to know that I'm not alone :)
Ondra, if this one doesn't get printed and stuck on your board I'll be sorely disappointed... :)
lol!
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Rendering snow is very problematic because:
Snow in reasonable distance (>2m) can be easily faked with overall bump and SSS. Snow from up close won't be looking good unless you physically model individual snowflakes - at least approximately.
Now, there are solutions to render good looking snow up close, and good looking snow in distance, but good looking snow from up close takes tremendous amount of rendertime and RAM. So when you need to see snow closeup and distant snow in one shots, it can get little problematic, especially in animation where you zoom in to the ground and close up on the snow surface.
If you are doing stills, it could be manageable though.
Here's the result I've got:
(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9691.0;attach=37119)
And I am also attaching scene, but it's Max 2016 and you will also need latest daily because of vector displacement.
Sorry to reignite this thread, but in the scene you made available, what is the box surrounding the snow geometry doing?
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following up on the "distance" thing i saw early in this thread, talking about how snow can benefit from a simple bump map starting at 2meters distance and needs displacement for detail in close ups:
Is it possible that Corona will ever have a "distance-map" to use inside material shaders? I'm having alot of problems with displacement in corona when we're looking for example at streets or pavements (flat surfaces, horizontal, like snow, pavements, streets; ...)
Displacement looks good in the foreground, when using for example 1pix-displacement. The displacement does not look good at all when looking at the same material, in medium distance for example. Simple reason being pixels are being squized into eachother, and when displacement is calculating in 1pixel-detail, this wont look good, it gives jittered edges and small points being displaced upward, instead of for example the joint of a tile.
I can upload an example later on if needed, but I think it's clear?
If I'd be able to use a "distance-map" within my material shaders, I could use a blend of 2 materials: one with displacement, and one without. This saves me memory for calculation hopefuly + no more crappy artifacts for distance-displacement. This distance-map could be a golden map here for a mask within a blend material.
Right now I'd have to augment my displacement settings to 0.5 pixels or more, which explodes my memory usage to +64Gb EASILY.
This is a very frustrating factor atm. I cant use displacement on pavements and flat horizontal surfaces. Trying to use normal maps and bump maps, but they look bad without displacement on the foreground.
Solution atm: Render crop of foreground with displacement + render full without displacement and photoshop the displacement over the non-displacement version in photoshop.
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I am not sure blending materials with and without displacement would work, as probably the one with displacement would need to be fully calculated anyway. You could use the existing CoronaDistance to blend between the textures / shaders going into the displacement though.
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okay tyvm, I will use this method. Atleast that way I can tell to displace using 2 pixels (which is enough or 4K resolution, in the foreground) - so the RAM doesn't go through the roof -
Grts
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Generally it is recommended to use displacement for large scale details (such as the shape of bricks in a brick wall) and bump for fine details (such as cracks in a brick wall). Displacement should not be used for tiny details.
There are some displacement tips and tricks here: https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=9728.0
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Hi,
I don't know what is going on here: I tried the snow scene in Max 2016 and Corona 5, just open the scene
and say switch to new Displacement 2.5 and new medium resolving... (but it's the same without doing this)
This is the result, at the same resolution, different render form IR and production... both wrong.
I'm I the only one with this wrong output?
Thank you,
Man
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Can you right click in the VFB on one of those black pixels an see if it tells NAN somwhere? Also try to turn bloom and glare and/or denoising and see if that helps.
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No NAN appears; bloom and glare and denoising didn't help.
The same happens with Max 2018.
What is really strange is the different behavior between IR and production mode...
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Actually i wanted to say - try with B&G and denoising turned off, but i guess you already did that. As far as i remember, the original scene is using refraction and volumetric displacement. I'm not sure about latter, but refraction has seen major change since, so it could be that scene needs to be updated to render correctly with recent Corona. Do you have possibility to test the scene with older version of Corona?
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Hi. Check out the displacementmap settings. Set it to "high dynamic range", and/or turn the level down (maybe somewhere around 8,5).
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I quickly checked the scene, and originally having same issue as posted by Place, it seems to be resolved after checking high dynamic range as PROH advised.
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Those black spots are related to the new medium resolving method and it's logged in our tracker.
(Internal ID=419535796)
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I confirm, resolved doing as suggested by PROH and confirmed by cexec
Thank you all!
Man