Author Topic: Tonemapping - Plz Halp  (Read 53009 times)

2020-05-21, 21:56:58
Reply #345

cjwidd

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2020-05-22, 00:27:38
Reply #346

Designerman77

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Also fron the F-Storm FB site...

The one who made this test allowed me to post his image her for comparison purposes.
Thanks for it, in case you read here, too. :)

2020-05-22, 00:46:06
Reply #347

lolec

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lol at the pathetic shading work on the corona version. That is not the render's fault, that user is either incompetent or intentionally misleading. look at the leather LOL

2020-05-22, 01:02:02
Reply #348

Designerman77

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lol at the pathetic shading work on the corona version. That is not the render's fault, that user is either incompetent or intentionally misleading. look at the leather LOL

That dude stated that he was a Corona user and just tested FStorm...
That's at least what he said. Can be true, can be a lie... who knows?

2020-05-22, 01:06:08
Reply #349

lolec

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Maybe you should download Fstorm and give it a go for a few weeks. Report back.

2020-05-22, 01:21:02
Reply #350

Designerman77

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Maybe you should download Fstorm and give it a go for a few weeks. Report back.

Impossible for me... on Mac machines & Radeon GPUs. :))))

However, my goal is for sure not to switch form Corona to FStorm.
I'm only interested in stuff that improves the image quality in the Corona renderer. And observing what others do is always useful.

2020-05-22, 01:29:13
Reply #351

Designerman77

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Maybe you should download Fstorm and give it a go for a few weeks. Report back.


Ah, look, I found another image that this guy gave me.

Watch the totally pixelated map of the bricks in FStorm... I don't think he is a FStom-genius. :)))

2020-05-22, 01:36:02
Reply #352

lolec

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If you want to improve image quality you should switch to Windows, the vastly superior tool!!!

hehe, of course, I'm messing with you, the only thing worst than an extremely subjective corona vs fstorm comparision is a Windows to Mac comparison thread :) 

Corona render was founded with a revolutionary approach and user-centric philosophy.  Being used in production by many many users means new features are harder and harder to add, but I trust the team and the vision.

That's the same reason I don't like Fstorm. Single developer, self-aggrandizing "genius" aura, adds cool feature after cool feature but can't seem to be able to work with a team, can't seem to mind about mission-critical features for production.
He has an artist brain. Real-world, functional products need an equilibrium between artist brain and engineer brain.

Heres the cool thing, artist brain types are great at finding what people want and pushing the edges. Great mixed teams with great vision are great at making that available to the masses in a reliable way.

I  believe the GOOD things about Fstorm will eventually find it's way into corona, implemented in a robust and production-ready manner, instead of like a cool, tech demo.




2020-05-22, 01:37:50
Reply #353

lolec

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Maybe you should download Fstorm and give it a go for a few weeks. Report back.


Ah, look, I found another image that this guy gave me.

Watch the totally pixelated map of the bricks in FStorm... I don't think he is a FStom-genius. :)))

He doesn't know how to enable caustics in corona or what?

If you ask him for that scene, I can give it a go in Corona.

2020-05-22, 01:44:27
Reply #354

Designerman77

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Maybe you should download Fstorm and give it a go for a few weeks. Report back.


Ah, look, I found another image that this guy gave me.

Watch the totally pixelated map of the bricks in FStorm... I don't think he is a FStom-genius. :)))

He doesn't know how to enable caustics in corona or what?

If you ask him for that scene, I can give it a go in Corona.


The bricks look more like a displacement problem in FS, don't you think?

I will try to find that thread on the FStorm FB page and ask him for the scene.
However, I already told him to get involved in this thread here, as he is an active Corona user... exactly for the reason that people will start asking me things. :))))



2020-05-22, 02:17:05
Reply #355

hldemi

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Lolec can you explain why are new features harder to implement if more users are using engine in production ?
I dont get the correlation. Would it not be the opposite, the bigger the user base, the more money, the bigger and more talented team, the more features. No ?

2020-05-22, 02:44:59
Reply #356

lolec

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Lolec can you explain why are new features harder to implement if more users are using engine in production ?
I dont get the correlation. Would it not be the opposite, the bigger the user base, the more money, the bigger and more talented team, the more features. No ?

Sure, I will try.

First, more money = larger team , unfortunately not always true. Finding talented people is incredibly hard. Even with all the money in the world. I bet the corona team hasn't gotten much bigger and most of the core developers have been there for years. VERY hard problem to solve, finding people.

When you have more users you have more "versions" of users.  THAUSANDS that use 3dsmax 2016, Thausands that NEED Phoenix for work. Or need to use their existing material libraries or absolutely NEED the render to be compatible with renderfarms.... the list goes on and on.

When you are creating a new niche product you can break compatibility or not work for 5% of people and that means a few dozen users, no big problem.

I will give you a good example:

Let's say corona team finds a way to make the render 50% faster but it will break compatibility with old materials. They CANT do it. There are a lot of people who depend on corona for work. They cant do something like that :(
Fstorm? he can probably still do stuff like that and upset people slightly, but not bring whole studios down.

Fstorm releases a feature, it doesn't work for some users, he gest 3 angry messages on facebook.

Corona CANT do it. they just cant afford to realease a broken feature. thousands of people depend on corona for work and need it to be rock solid.

It is a universal phenomenon, the larger the user base, the slower you can move. That's just the way it is :(


2020-05-22, 03:39:42
Reply #357

lolec

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Great real-world example:

Not only is Fstorm not supported by Rebus farm, but look at the list of supported plugins for corona just in rebusfarm!

https://mx.rebusfarm.net/en/3d-software/corona-render-farm

You can imagine there are probably a dozen ways of improving tonemapping, the corona developers are brilliant engineers, if we can find those in google I bet they can too. Well, if they want to do something, they have to consider compatibility with a huge number of dependencies, there are many users that expect corona to behave in a certain way, and "improving" things could mean they need to rebuild internal tools or rework scenes and assets. 

Vray started from scratch with NEXT, probably for a very similar reason. Backwards compatibility is a huge pain in the butt for new features, it is also a big part of why people choose to pay for corona, because they are investing much more than the license cost, they are investing hours and hours creating a workflow.

You can probably run windows 3.1 code on windows 10 today. That is the reason your bank uses Windows. While OSX can afford to loose 5% of it's user base by breaking compatibility in favor of fancy new features, windows cant afford to do that, hence, windows move slowly and OSX moved faster.

2020-05-22, 07:52:37
Reply #358

cjwidd

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I can't remember who said it first on this thread, but after converting scenes back in forth from Fstorm to Corona Renderer, and vice versa, I have to agree that the two renderers can produce very similar results. However, it seems that the default tonemapping settings in Fstorm are preferable to a lot of people.
« Last Edit: 2020-05-22, 08:20:11 by cjwidd »

2020-05-22, 10:22:23
Reply #359

Designerman77

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Lolec can you explain why are new features harder to implement if more users are using engine in production ?
I dont get the correlation. Would it not be the opposite, the bigger the user base, the more money, the bigger and more talented team, the more features. No ?

Sure, I will try.

First, more money = larger team , unfortunately not always true. Finding talented people is incredibly hard. Even with all the money in the world. I bet the corona team hasn't gotten much bigger and most of the core developers have been there for years. VERY hard problem to solve, finding people.

When you have more users you have more "versions" of users.  THAUSANDS that use 3dsmax 2016, Thausands that NEED Phoenix for work. Or need to use their existing material libraries or absolutely NEED the render to be compatible with renderfarms.... the list goes on and on.

When you are creating a new niche product you can break compatibility or not work for 5% of people and that means a few dozen users, no big problem.

I will give you a good example:

Let's say corona team finds a way to make the render 50% faster but it will break compatibility with old materials. They CANT do it. There are a lot of people who depend on corona for work. They cant do something like that :(
Fstorm? he can probably still do stuff like that and upset people slightly, but not bring whole studios down.

Fstorm releases a feature, it doesn't work for some users, he gest 3 angry messages on facebook.

Corona CANT do it. they just cant afford to realease a broken feature. thousands of people depend on corona for work and need it to be rock solid.

It is a universal phenomenon, the larger the user base, the slower you can move. That's just the way it is :(



Well, Corona is not 100% "rock solid" either.
If it was the case, then why for heaven's sake does the "Quality Filter" in C4D still mess up all edges and surfaces, as soon as round-edge-map and / or bump map is applied?
This problem was literally shutting down my business for about two months when this denoising mode was integrated.
If the devs had not integrated the AI-denoiser after similar complaints from other users, I would have switched to Arnold as a last escape.

Lolec, for sure Corona is a fantastic engine, but we don't have to praise it like the golden calf. :)
Only constructive critique brings improvement...