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Messages - pokoy

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16
General CG Discussion / Re: Render Network
« on: 2024-12-12, 14:58:42 »
Isn't this be a legal nightmare in terms IP and safe harbour regulations word wide? You probably have to sign a couple of waivers since no one can guarantee that the data is safe.
I know I wouldn't use it on any job and probably would be hesitant with my private data, too.

17
[Max] Bug Reporting / Re: Tonemapping Order/Behaviour
« on: 2024-12-11, 14:54:00 »
Quote
there is no correct/wrong behavior...vignette operator...

Funny you mention vignette in the same paragraph. Vignette *should* be applied before any TM, otherwise it would be more visible over HDR values than it should. A pixel with a luminance value of 4 (sorry for the wrong wording, doing it for the sake of clarity) would result for example in a value of 3.5 - still overbright, hence white in the tone mapped image.
On a tone mapped image it would work on a value of 1 and the result could be 0.75 - this wouldn't be correct.

Some operators do work differently and while we can be artistic with them, I agree, it would be nice to know which ones are designed to be HDR-aware by you. It could be that development didn't care for operators to work in HDR, in that case this is the answer - not 'the order is up to you'.

And since we're talking about operators - Corona has the worst saturation adjustment operator on this planet (maybe only matched by max built in CC node which is similarly unpredictable). Are there any plans to redesign it and provide something that will finally work for human vision?



18
Ah I see. I haven't looked too much at OCIO but it's crazy to me they go with one config and chose not to extend it with each update. Interesting to see May and VRED got a different treatment.
Both look transform and virtual display would be something I'd definitely like to see.

Some years ago I was in contact with the creator of VFB+, Rotem Shiffman, asking if he could update it to allow a color transform from a user-specified ICC profile. Well, it took him 2 days and it was in, worked and was perfect. Something Autodesk (and Corona, btw) haven't managed to add for way too long. Of course, this wouldn't care about input and rendering spaces etc. but the final step is already a huge help.

This is maybe another reason why people are not profiling or even just learn about the advantages - their expensive super-capable 3d app is worse at displaying colors than any image viewer or web browser which you can get for free. Isn't that just great.

19
OCIO sytem has support for ICC profiles. it’s just Max that does poor job supporting OCIO.

one way of going around it is adding the same functionality but with luts in custom ocio config.
Since you're an expert on this, what's your take - why is OCIO support in Max poor? I have no idea (still on max 2021 here), asking out of interest and would like to hear your opinion.

20
Yeah, I wish OCIO in Max was accompanied by something (ICC) with the print guys in mind, too.
As for ICC profiling, there are two ways:
1. Additional hardware - colorimeter, plugged in via USB - comes with software that'll guide you through the process and profile your monitor by displaying different colors on your display while measuring the results and calculating the profile from that. You can set it to different targets (luminance, gamuts etc).
The result is an ICC file. It'll then set your OS to use that ICC profile (or guide you through the process). You can use it on any display and you can use separate profiles for each display, too. Your display should however meet some standards in terms of the gamut, otherwise you may not get correct color reproduction. If your display only makes 80% of let's say the AdobeRGB gamut, your display will not be able to display all colors of AdobeRGB of course.
If you've done it once it's easy to repeat, which you should do every few weeks. Some places need high accuracy and will need do this on a weekly basis since displays tend to age.

2. A display with a built-in colorimeter (for example certain Eizo displays, I have one and it's fantastic). You profile it once to a target gamut. You can then set a timer to validate the profile automatically periodically, for example every friday at 3am.
The resulting profile is then - at least in the case of the display I own - stored in the display itself and the Eizo software will sync your OS to use it, too. The advantage is that the device is now calibrated independently - ie, you can plug any other PC to that monitor, it'll still look correct (you'd still have to take care of the OS to use that profile).
This is a very convenient and care-free solution and it's well worth the extra money. I'm talking about Eizo here but it may apply to other vendors.

In any case, I've been working for print a lot and it really helps to know that what you see is what you get. I agree you may not need that accuracy in display-only-times apps but whenever I talk to clients about colors, it really helps to know I'm on the right side of things and can quickly end any discussion once they realize their display/phone whatever is just not a proper device to judge colors.

I remember well working at a studio once and 3 of us were comping different shot where the same asset was in full display, each of us on a separate PC/display next to each other. It was a shiny red car with a very distinct color and each displayed the color differently. Everyone was tempted to correct it but no one was able to tell which display was closer to the truth since nothing was ever calibrated in that place. This problem is not present when you calibrate displays and is the no1 reason I always went with calibration since then.

21
I recall seeing in some other thread that Max would crash (when going back) whenever a camera was present in the scene. I'm not sure the info will help but who knows...

22
[Max] Bug Reporting / Re: Corona colour correct issue
« on: 2024-12-02, 16:27:17 »
I'd love the Color Correct node to have min/max clamp values. Maybe it can be added when fixing this?

23
I wonder if it depends on the target? If ever you are doing something in print, then those folks profile. If the work will just be on displays, then those folks don't because every display will be differently set up so even with profiling you have no idea what the end customer will see (that is, not our users client, but their clients... e.g. render an image for a client who will put it on their website selling that apartment space / advertising the upcoming restaurant opening / etc. and the viewers of the website could end up seeing any old thing in terms of profile).
Nah, there's way more reason to properly profile your monitor. Proper black and white level alone can spare you some trouble.
In one or all of the Star Wars ep 1/2/3 (the new ones, not sure which ones anymore) you can see some hilarious black level misalignment where you can clearly see the cut out stance around space ships in some places. It's the most basic comp error there is, and it's all coming from people not caring about the display they use. Everyone assumes it's good enough if it has proper contrast. Now the fact that it slipped through ALL the stages after comp is telling, and to think no one caught it is just amazing. Wouldn't have happened with proper profiling, or even the most basic.

Ferrari and Coca-Cola will torture you for weeks to get their red color right. Sure, this is not the common job. But even in archviz, if you deliver your images and the sky is just a a bit too green or has too much magenta, the entire image is ruined imo.

24
Interesting... pretty much 50/50 right now with 24 people.
In the music production world, if 50% of the people wouldn't care for proper monitoring and mastering much of the music would sound like reproduced through a tin box, proper input/output leveling and post production is a key factor. Not sure why the graphics world doesn't care too much, probably because our visual perception is much more forgiving than our auditory senses.
For example, I can see and recognize someone's face in the dark, different lighting conditions etc. But hearing just a bit of a difference in a voice you already know can cause a lot confusion pretty early.

25
I see, you'll have to wait for a support response then. I know that the suggested way to handle Max OCIO was to use the 'Gamma Workflow' OCIO preset, but I have no hands-on experience with Max 2023+ and it might have changed for Corona 12 Update 1.

26
I'm not really up to date on the OCIO implementation in Max and how Corona handles it but judging from the screenshot your OCIO setting already use an ACES view transform, which is already passed along to the Corona VFB. If that's the case, applying the ACES Operator in the VFB will result in a double application of ACES tone mapping, which probably why it's throwing the error/warning in the log. Again, only an assumption but probably the reason why the warning comes up.
I agree that a 404 is not helpful :D, and Corona could probably automatically set the correct settings in the VFB (and probably let you choose whether to apply them or not).


27
[Max] I need help! / Re: Node to rotate a texture?
« on: 2024-11-11, 19:59:35 »
Hmm... this serves that one example but still doesn't solve the general ability of a map that could:
- use one texture node and change only coordinates in a general scene-global way, without the need to wire things
- if the concept works the other way around (like with CoronaColorCorrection) one could use different maps and transform coordinates by a single coordinates map node

With scene tidiness in mind, wiring objects to maps in Max is highly problematic imo. Someone else in the studio opening your file might not understand what's wired where. Wiring parameters in Max is just hidden way too deep, and a person not selecting the right object might not find it at all. A map displays the stuff right in its properties in the most readable way there is.

Wiring is also problematic with animation playback, as wiring is reevaluated globally on all scene objects. Environment maps tend to be huge, so say good bye to scene responsiveness if you want to wire them.

---

28
[Max] I need help! / Re: Node to rotate a texture?
« on: 2024-11-11, 17:45:01 »
An image files that is loaded in Max will be loaded only once in memory, regardless of whether it's copied or instanced or uses different mapping/tiling settings, so there is no memory saving.

I can totally understand the need though and have wished for such a node many times.
Internally, the coordinates rollout is actually a separate node, it's just that Max doesn't offer it as a separate node, probably because Max developers never saw a need.

If you're open to using 3rd party maps, Bercon Maps plugin has a BerconMapping node, which is exactly what you're looking for. It also offers an additional 'Distortion' slot, also very useful in some cases.



Personally, I'd also prefer Corona would offer such a map node (and also offer some sort of distortion/perturbation, too). 3rd party stuff can be problematic (some studios will not allow using them) or not recompiled on time for new Max versions etc.

29
TBH, I expected more of a progress by now, given that dome mode is essentially broken since day 1.

30
I was wondering if there was any progress here?

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