Vertex connection and merging added!

[Ondra]

Ok, this algorithm is probably the best thing you can get to render reflections/refractions of caustics (objects enclosed in glass, water caustics, ...) in an unbiased way



excuse me while I do my victory dance

[alieneye]

Great! Thank you!

[Chakib]

Oppa OH YEAH STYLE ! :D

waited for it !

[Javadevil]

Sweet !!! Just brilliant :)

[lacilaci]

That's just Amazing!

[relox]

wow!! really its going to help alot with scenes that require light plus glass and reflections on metals, i´ve never heard of vcm but it is more accurate than metropolis i see it on the link posted. this will come with the new alpha corona version? this release will come in christmas or before christmas? thanks for the hard work to make this posible in cg.

[andreupuig]

Well done. Can't wait to try the new alpha/beta.
Thank you!

[petoboso]

it look very helpfull, i have often problem with noise in reflections like this in vray.

[Sam75]

Faster for caustics only means it can replace PT in term of speed right ?

Perhaps an option to turn off caustics with PT and render caustics only on a different pass with VCM ?

[Chakib]

This fix will be released in the next alpha or it is available in dropbox ?

because i did test the latest legacy ( 27 nov ) and i did test VCM mode but it gives me weird result.

[Ondra]

some basic version will be available hopefully soon

[maru]

Thank you for being awesome!

[petoboso]

I tried reproduce scene and render it in maxwell, here is result, rendertime 50s :
In summary is noise litle bit more reduce in maxwell but in reflections (most critical areas)  is very  similar. if you use unbiase setup of course.
Good job 
I would like to try more complex scene

Edit: now i notice that in maxwell version is coplete missing  some reflection ...weird

[Ondra]

Yes, it is missing exactly the problematic part ;)

[petoboso]

i think since version 2 there are some optimalisation, user can change shading quality on each object, default is low. i guess it is therefore.

[racoonart]

This whole technique stuff is pretty amazing, I didn't understand what bidir really does and why it isn't as fast as pt but solves some problems - (excluding this one here). But I found a page for everyone who's interested to learn the principles:
http://youtu.be/QhJhVkbCgVU hundreds of videos explaining render stuff :)
Now I got it :D

[Sam75]

Will Bdir and VCM ever be able to work with HDcache to speed up things ?

[Ondra]

Will Bdir and VCM ever be able to work with HDcache to speed up things ?

no, there is no framework yet to use caching for bidirectional methods

[Javadevil]

This whole technique stuff is pretty amazing, I didn't understand what bidir really does and why it isn't as fast as pt but solves some problems - (excluding this one here). But I found a page for everyone who's interested to learn the principles:
http://youtu.be/QhJhVkbCgVU hundreds of videos explaining render stuff :)
Now I got it :D

Great find, I will be watching them.

[Ondra]

More hard-to-render scenes:

[Javadevil]

Freakin'  Awesome  !!!!!!
Only dancing pony's I could find :)

[Ondra]

Freakin'  Awesome  !!!!!!
Only dancing pony's I could find :)

what about
? ;)

[tomasd]

VCM is not unbiased ;-)

[Chakib]

VCM is not unbiased ;-)

why do you say that?

anyway, i just want to test it very very very soon, i need it :s

[Ondra]

VCM is not unbiased ;-)

why do you say that?

anyway, i just want to test it very very very soon, i need it :s

he is right, it is not unbiased, but consistent - it means that when rendering the bias eventually goes to zero with time.

[Chakib]

VCM is not unbiased ;-)

why do you say that?

anyway, i just want to test it very very very soon, i need it :s

he is right, it is not unbiased, but consistent - it means that when rendering the bias eventually goes to zero with time.

i see , but it's doing a great job here, maybe you should make a 2 hours render of a full test scene with VCM so we can see better.

[Sam75]

I see you don't have those funny white splotches, Do you keep "use merging" off ?

[Ondra]

FYI VCM with "use merging" off equal regular bidir

[Sam75]

FYI VCM with "use merging" off equal regular bidir

I see, you noticed those splotches I am talking about ?

Also edges get over exposed as soon as I used an environmental light, Coronasky or Hdri

Actually both Bdir and VCM are doing great with direct lights but it gets very noisy and slow if I use environment lightning.

[tomasd]

Chakib: Saying that because it is (I am one of the method's authors). But it doesn't really matter, as you want low noise, not some math buzzwords :-)

[Ondra]

FYI VCM with "use merging" off equal regular bidir

I see, you noticed those splotches I am talking about ?

Also edges get over exposed as soon as I used an environmental light, Coronasky or Hdri

Actually both Bdir and VCM are doing great with direct lights but it gets very noisy and slow if I use environment lightning.

grab the newest build, there were some bugs in older ones (including incorrect environment weighting). If the problem persists, post screenshots. Also you usually need to tweak the search radius parameter to get good results (there is tradeoff between blurring and fireflies)

[Chakib]

FYI VCM with "use merging" off equal regular bidir

I see, you noticed those splotches I am talking about ?

Also edges get over exposed as soon as I used an environmental light, Coronasky or Hdri

Actually both Bdir and VCM are doing great with direct lights but it gets very noisy and slow if I use environment lightning.

grab the newest build, there were some bugs in older ones (including incorrect environment weighting). If the problem persists, post screenshots. Also you usually need to tweak the search radius parameter to get good results (there is tradeoff between blurring and fireflies)

does it include the legacy build ?

[lacilaci]

*(there is tradeoff between blurring and fireflies) -> But both are resolved and gone in time, right? Anyway, would also like to test in legacy build if you find time...

[Dom74]

Tested yesterday, it's working very well with glass/refractions/caustics, but antialiasing seems to be less effective than standard progressive path tracing.

[Sam75]

FYI VCM with "use merging" off equal regular bidir

I see, you noticed those splotches I am talking about ?

Also edges get over exposed as soon as I used an environmental light, Coronasky or Hdri

Actually both Bdir and VCM are doing great with direct lights but it gets very noisy and slow if I use environment lightning.

grab the newest build, there were some bugs in older ones (including incorrect environment weighting). If the problem persists, post screenshots. Also you usually need to tweak the search radius parameter to get good results (there is tradeoff between blurring and fireflies)

I use the latest builds

It's easy to replicate, you can use your cornell box scene, turn off direct lights and turn on environment light, you should see those bright edges

It can help you to identify the problem: it happens only with geometry without thickness, if I add a shell modifier to my cornell box, the problem is gone, but there seems to be a relation between the thickness amount and the VCM lookup radius.
 

[Sam75]

Some screens about noise, first one is PT (only PT no HDcache) second is VCM.

[relox]

Hi looks like vcm need more time to render less noise or its more for night lighting, how do i download the alpha version with vcm???? or sam you are a tester for that version that will be released???? thanks i aprecciate any answer.

[Chakib]

Some screens about noise, first one is PT (only PT no HDcache) second is VCM.

too much noise...

There is no glass and metal in your scene, can you add some ?

[tomasd]

If the scene contains no caustics (or even no glass/mirror), then VCM is overkill. It will do lot of heavy lifting to solve problems that are simply not there.
For examples of scenes it alone can handle have a look http://www.smallvcm.com/ (the complicated scenes from paper).
I would look at it as method that opens new artistic opportunities, rather than speeding up the current ways of doing stuff. (At least, that was the hope when we came up with the method)

I am afraid there is no silver bullet (yet).
I got some ideas for time-adaptive algorithm, that is pretty much unpublishable, but could make production guys happy.
(Will bother Keymaster with it once his deadlines are gone).

In the meantime, I will have to re-check with him today, but I am pretty sure there is still a bug in his implementation of environment lights. These things are damn hard to catch, especially since the example implementation uses different way of envrionment light (and I am quite sure still has bugs of its own).

[Chakib]

If the scene contains no caustics (or even no glass/mirror), then VCM is overkill. It will do lot of heavy lifting to solve problems that are simply not there.
For examples of scenes it alone can handle have a look http://www.smallvcm.com/ (the complicated scenes from paper).
I would look at it as method that opens new artistic opportunities, rather than speeding up the current ways of doing stuff. (At least, that was the hope when we came up with the method)

I am afraid there is no silver bullet (yet).
I got some ideas for time-adaptive algorithm, that is pretty much unpublishable, but could make production guys happy.
(Will bother Keymaster with it once his deadlines are gone).

In the meantime, I will have to re-check with him today, but I am pretty sure there is still a bug in his implementation of environment lights. These things are damn hard to catch, especially since the example implementation uses different way of envrionment light (and I am quite sure still has bugs of its own).

Good luck guys your doing great job

[Sam75]

Hi looks like vcm need more time to render less noise or its more for night lighting, how do i download the alpha version with vcm???? or sam you are a tester for that version that will be released???? thanks i aprecciate any answer.

For latest builds you need to see that with Keymaster.

[Sam75]

Some screens about noise, first one is PT (only PT no HDcache) second is VCM.

too much noise...

There is no glass and metal in your scene, can you add some ?

Lot of reflective materials.

[pionier]

should I email to Keymaster in order to get that build?

[Sam75]

Watching CPU usage I ve noticed that VCM is not fully multithreaded, do you think it will be able to make a better usage of CPU in the future ?

[pionier]

should I email to Keymaster in order to get that build?

thanks to answer for my question ; )

[Dom74]

has someone noticed that the anti-aliasing doesn't work well ?

[Sam75]

has someone noticed that the anti-aliasing doesn't work well ?

Yes I did

For some reason the default value for image filter width is set at 1.5 while the documentation recommends to keep it at the same value than internal res. which is by default 2.

So using a width value of 2 makes things a bit better but the image won't be as sharp.

You should make a new topic about this issue.

[Sam75]

Keymaster VCM is still crashing max with the latest builds, it won't render at all. Actually the 2 or 3 latest builds won't even load. There is an error plugin at max start.

[Ondra]

what does it say? Have you copied the new dll from dropbox into 3dsmax folder?

[Sam75]

Have you copied the new dll from dropbox into 3dsmax folder?

I guess I did since this is what I am talking about :)

[Ondra]

that looks like there is corrupted build on dropbox ;)

[Sam75]

that looks like there is corrupted build on dropbox ;)

I tried the latest releases for max 2013.

[Ondra]

I'm uploading newest version which should work

[Sam75]

I'm uploading newest version which should work

Yes loading fine, VCM still crashing max though.

[Ondra]

I went through the code, some parts are currently broken. I'll fix it eventually, but I don't have the time right now.

[Sam75]

I went through the code, some parts are currently broken. I'll fix it eventually, but I don't have the time right now.

Ok, progressive is the only usable for me right now anyway, was just to let you now.

[Sam75]

What is that rar file included in the latest release folder for max2013?

[Sam75]

Keymaster, I see you fixed VCM it's not crashing max anymore.

Can you tell why VCM is not using CPU at 100% ? Is it a multithreading issue ?

[Ondra]

it has many single-threaded stages interleaved in the computation. I haven't optimized it yet, and I don't know if I ever will (if the algorithm proves usable in some real scenes)

[Sam75]

it has many single-threaded stages interleaved in the computation. I haven't optimized it yet, and I don't know if I ever will (if the algorithm proves usable in some real scenes)

Ok thanks.