Author Topic: Tonemapping playground!  (Read 18908 times)

2022-03-12, 12:54:21

Aram Avetisyan

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The new programmable, stackable and playable tonemapping is here with Corona Renderer 8 RC1!

Link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1QJ_iXVzRHSdX2vUl6Z7cCHWhtQyoORnw

Apply the operators, tweak the settings, move them up and down to change the order (applied from top to bottom), try the new presets and also create and share yours!


Scene from Evermotion
« Last Edit: 2022-03-14, 14:20:20 by maru »
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2022-04-06, 17:37:27
Reply #1

Dionysios.TS

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Hi all, I've downloaded the last Daily Build RC4 and I've noticed the changes on the ToneMapper.
The new ACES OT seems great!!! It seems that there is no need to use the Advanced Filmic Mapping / Filmic processes anymore or am I wrong?

What should be the process and order for the modifiers now? LUT? ACES OT? Ecc.

Thanks in advance and you did a great job guys!

Dionysios -

2022-04-06, 17:56:25
Reply #2

maru

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Hi all, I've downloaded the last Daily Build RC4 and I've noticed the changes on the ToneMapper.
The new ACES OT seems great!!! It seems that there is no need to use the Advanced Filmic Mapping / Filmic processes anymore or am I wrong?

What should be the process and order for the modifiers now? LUT? ACES OT? Ecc.

Thanks in advance and you did a great job guys!

Dionysios -

We're glad that you are enjoying the new features!

As to your questions:

Advanced Filmic Mapping / Filmic processes / other operators - I don't think there is ever "need" to use any of them. :) They are all different, and you can use them if you wish, or if you find them useful in getting the desired look in your images.

Order of operators - here we are also giving the users complete freedom. One thing to remember is that the operators are applied in the order from top to bottom. I would personally strongly encourage experimenting, because even if something is not "technically correct", it can still produce good-looking results. It's similar as with using the Corona Physical Material with the Complex IOR option vs using simple controls with just the base color and edge color. Or using the Corona Physical Material vs using the Legacy Material to produce some un-physical results.
I am sure there will be some users with more puristic approach, or who are used to following strict workflows to produce technically correct results in terms of color management, etc. This is fine too, and as far as I know, in such cases it makes sense to only use the exposure operator, and then apply the ACES OT operator.


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2022-04-06, 18:21:43
Reply #3

maru

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By the way, this thread is awfully empty! Here are some more examples of the new ACES OT operator in action:

1) No operator at all vs ACES OT - the results speak for themselves ;) - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/PUZsqZ

2) ACES OT vs Reinhard Highlight Compression - while these two operators have some things in common, note especially how the highly saturated materials on the spheres react to strong highlights - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/e6y3Zd

3) ACES OT vs no operator at all - again, check out the highlights compression and desaturation - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/tZJdk2

4) An experiment: the same scene, using the ACES OT operator in both cases - left is using the ACEScg color space, right is using the Wide RGB color space (the default in Corona) - as you can see the differences are negligible. The mostly visible difference here is in the green refractive sphere and in the overall saturation of the SSS object. There are also some minor differences because of the UHD Cache recalculation - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/8JStH0

5) ACES OT vs no operator at all - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/SHKcLV

6) ACES OT vs Reinhard highlight compression - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/muavrb

7) Both images are using the ACES OT operator. One is rendered with the Wide RGB color space, the other one in ACEScg color space - take a look at the blue car - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/SPDmwX

8) ACES OT vs no operator at all - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/TyAiwJ

9) Both images are using the ACES OT operator. One is rendered with the Wide RGB color space, the other one in ACEScg color space - take a look at the blue car - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/V9x2sv

10) ACES OT vs Reinhard highlight compression - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/oD7bzE

11) ACES OT vs no operator at all - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/WsfQg7

*By the way, the internal color space can be changed in the Development / Experimental Stuff rollout, and you need to re-render to make it work - https://support.corona-renderer.com/hc/en-us/articles/4402367677713

*Note that both the ACES OT operator and switching between different internal color spaces will make the biggest differences in cases where some kind of color blending occurs (especially in case of highly saturated colors) such as multiplication or division. This happens, for example, when: mixing lights (two spotlights with different colors mix), using refractive materials with colored absorption, using SSS, using the Corona Physical Mtl with colored Clearcoat.



Sorry for the spam! :)
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2022-04-06, 19:15:06
Reply #4

Ondra

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Hi all, I've downloaded the last Daily Build RC4 and I've noticed the changes on the ToneMapper.
The new ACES OT seems great!!! It seems that there is no need to use the Advanced Filmic Mapping / Filmic processes anymore or am I wrong?

While it currently seems that ACES OT is the "make it look nice" tool, I assume some people will still want to create their own custom tone mapping stacks to differentiate their images from everyone else using the default setting ;)
Rendering is magic.How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2022-04-06, 19:53:09
Reply #5

romullus

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Why is aces almost always so contrasty? I didn't have a chance to test Corona's implementation yet, but judging from examples here and also what i see in other apps, it's always the same crushed shadows and overly compressed highlights. Maybe it's my uncalibrated monitor, i don't know, but usually when i look at nice images in the gallery, or artwork in general, i don't see much issues with colours or contrast, so i guess my monitor is not very far off and it's something with aces itself that i don't like it. I guess i'm just not a fan of that overly punchy look.
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2022-04-06, 20:13:24
Reply #6

maru

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Why is aces almost always so contrasty? I didn't have a chance to test Corona's implementation yet, but judging from examples here and also what i see in other apps, it's always the same crushed shadows and overly compressed highlights. Maybe it's my uncalibrated monitor, i don't know, but usually when i look at nice images in the gallery, or artwork in general, i don't see much issues with colours or contrast, so i guess my monitor is not very far off and it's something with aces itself that i don't like it. I guess i'm just not a fan of that overly punchy look.

I think this is very, very scene-dependent. My examples are highly contrasty even with no ACES OT operator. When it's added, they become even more contrasty. In a different scene (maybe exterior? something with soft, diffuse light?) it might look very different.
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2022-04-06, 20:19:22
Reply #7

romullus

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I understand that, but if it's one button solution, then it means that in 50% of cases it might be unusable.
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2022-04-06, 20:23:05
Reply #8

maru

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Some more experiments. Light with negative color values in different color spaces.

Bonus:

ACES OT vs no operators - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/CgEh27

ACES OT Wide RGB vs ACES OT ACEScg - hair color changes :D - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/a64c75
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2022-04-06, 20:25:39
Reply #9

maru

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I understand that, but if it's one button solution, then it means that in 50% of cases it might be unusable.

Unusable? I think that's a bit too harsh. If you don't like the result of applying the ACES OT operator, you can lower the contrast using other operators, like contrast, or Reinhard highlight compression (before or after the ACES OT operator).
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2022-04-06, 20:31:10
Reply #10

romullus

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Sorry, i probably should at least try it before criticising. Didn't want to sound too negative.

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2022-04-06, 20:55:50
Reply #11

piotrus3333

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I would say that if the the rendering does not look at least “quite good” (as far as tone mapping is concerned obviously) after aces display output transform you can safely assume something is wrong with your scene (if “realistic” is what you are after). they nailed the look really well.

ps: sort your display - http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/
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2022-04-06, 21:34:32
Reply #12

Dionysios.TS

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Thanks for your explanation Maru! As for the Filmic operators I understood immediately the issue but I needed a confirmation from you guys as well.

I love the new ACES OT, I personally find the results natural, highlights and contrast while I play with the exposure the behave like a real Photo Camera in my opinion.
Sometimes but not always I see the darks too darks but with a reflex the effect is the same at the end. I find using the Fuji Luts very helpful with ACES OT. I love the results, really!

As for the ACEScg color space, I see in your toy car example a big difference on the blue cars, we do suppose to use ACEScg color space instead of Wide RGB or is just a matter of final color taste at the end.
I personally do all my final correction process in Lightroom which it uses Wide RGB as well.

Great job, I am extremely happy!

2022-04-06, 21:35:24
Reply #13

Dionysios.TS

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Hi all, I've downloaded the last Daily Build RC4 and I've noticed the changes on the ToneMapper.
The new ACES OT seems great!!! It seems that there is no need to use the Advanced Filmic Mapping / Filmic processes anymore or am I wrong?

While it currently seems that ACES OT is the "make it look nice" tool, I assume some people will still want to create their own custom tone mapping stacks to differentiate their images from everyone else using the default setting ;)

Thanks! :)

2022-04-06, 21:51:44
Reply #14

Dionysios.TS

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I am playing tonight with the new Tone Mapper and I've noticed that once applied the Curve Data modifier and then open the Curve Editor CIE is blocked while the Curve Editor is all white and I see no curves.

Thanks,

Dionysios -

2022-04-06, 22:40:23
Reply #15

ONO

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Hello guys,
I haven't had the chance to test out the new tonemapping but am curious about knowing how it stacks up to the Fstorm tonemapping in terms of Realism and Colours control.
P.s
There used to be a Tonemapping forum were the comparison between the Fstorm, Vray and Corona Tonemapping output is it still active or has the new corona tonemapping been used to confirm the improvement in regards to all the Complaints about the previous implementation?

2022-04-07, 00:19:46
Reply #16

Dionysios.TS

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I am playing tonight with the new Tone Mapper and I've noticed that once applied the Curve Data modifier and then open the Curve Editor CIE is blocked while the Curve Editor is all white and I see no curves.

Thanks,

Dionysios -

Just a fast note:

The block CIE issue is only present in CIE standalone, in 3ds Max everything is ok.
I can't understand why in standalone mode the CIE is soooo laggy and slow.

Thanks -

2022-04-07, 12:31:13
Reply #17

rowmanns

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I am playing tonight with the new Tone Mapper and I've noticed that once applied the Curve Data modifier and then open the Curve Editor CIE is blocked while the Curve Editor is all white and I see no curves.

Thanks,

Dionysios -

Just a fast note:

The block CIE issue is only present in CIE standalone, in 3ds Max everything is ok.
I can't understand why in standalone mode the CIE is soooo laggy and slow.

Thanks -
Hi,

What resolution is the file you are working on in the CIE?

Rowan
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2022-04-07, 12:33:59
Reply #18

Dionysios.TS

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Hi Rowan,

the res is 6.100px large.

Thanks!

2022-04-07, 12:43:26
Reply #19

rowmanns

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Hi,

We have some optimisations for the CIE in the pipeline. It should be available in the next build.

I'll let you know when it gets released.

Rowan
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2022-04-07, 12:44:40
Reply #20

Dionysios.TS

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Very good to hear this!!! :)

Take care,

Dionysios -

2022-04-08, 01:05:34
Reply #21

Neil Cross

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Some more experiments. Light with negative color values in different color spaces.

Bonus:

ACES OT vs no operators - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/CgEh27

ACES OT Wide RGB vs ACES OT ACEScg - hair color changes :D - https://corona-renderer.com/comparer/a64c75

The highlights look pretty good considering you got your green value set to 255. I usually keep my values between 30-220. Stupid question but does aces compensate albedo issues?

2022-04-08, 01:14:58
Reply #22

Neil Cross

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2022-04-08, 22:54:59
Reply #23

Dionysios.TS

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Hi,

We have some optimisations for the CIE in the pipeline. It should be available in the next build.

I'll let you know when it gets released.

Rowan

Hi Rowan!

I've installed the latest Build RC5 a while ago and...... WOW!
CIE is super fast buddy, great job guys, great job!!!

Have a nice weekend!

2022-04-12, 11:20:00
Reply #24

Dionysios.TS

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Hi all,

I am on RC5 and I've noticed today a strange beahaviour.
In 3ds Max I've setup on the CIE window my settings, I've sent the render via Backburner to a server with DR Server activated.
Once the render was ready I've opened the CXR file and I've noticed that all the Tone Mapping values were wrong. Even loading a previous saved preset (RC5 version) doesn't change the Tone Mapping values at all.
I had to put them manually again...

My assistant tried to open that CXR file with her computer and it works fine and the preset is loaded succesfully, but on other CXRs she has the same issues as me.

Any clues???

Thanks,

Dionysios -

2022-04-12, 11:27:26
Reply #25

maru

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Hi all,

I am on RC5 and I've noticed today a strange beahaviour.
In 3ds Max I've setup on the CIE window my settings, I've sent the render via Backburner to a server with DR Server activated.
Once the render was ready I've opened the CXR file and I've noticed that all the Tone Mapping values were wrong. Even loading a previous saved preset (RC5 version) doesn't change the Tone Mapping values at all.
I had to put them manually again...

My assistant tried to open that CXR file with her computer and it works fine and the preset is loaded succesfully, but on other CXRs she has the same issues as me.

Could you send exact steps how to reproduce this?
This part is confusing to me: "In 3ds Max I've setup on the CIE window"
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2022-04-12, 11:39:45
Reply #26

Dionysios.TS

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Hi all,

I am on RC5 and I've noticed today a strange beahaviour.
In 3ds Max I've setup on the CIE window my settings, I've sent the render via Backburner to a server with DR Server activated.
Once the render was ready I've opened the CXR file and I've noticed that all the Tone Mapping values were wrong. Even loading a previous saved preset (RC5 version) doesn't change the Tone Mapping values at all.
I had to put them manually again...

My assistant tried to open that CXR file with her computer and it works fine and the preset is loaded succesfully, but on other CXRs she has the same issues as me.

Could you send exact steps how to reproduce this?
This part is confusing to me: "In 3ds Max I've setup on the CIE window"

Hello Maru,

I mean the Corona Frame Buffer in 3ds Max, my bad.
Excuse me, I'll try to be more clear on this:

- In 3ds Max I generate my render and setup my Tone Mapper as I wish.
- I send the render in high-res via Backburner to a server with DR activated.
- Once the render is ready I open the CXR file with CIE and the Tone Mapping values are comlpletely wrong and even if I load my *.conf presets they don't work.

Thanks,

Dionysios -

2022-04-12, 11:44:25
Reply #27

maru

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Thanks, we'll double check this.
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2022-04-12, 11:48:08
Reply #28

Dionysios.TS

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2022-04-12, 12:12:31
Reply #29

Aram Avetisyan

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Hi all,

I am on RC5 and I've noticed today a strange beahaviour.
In 3ds Max I've setup on the CIE window my settings, I've sent the render via Backburner to a server with DR Server activated.
Once the render was ready I've opened the CXR file and I've noticed that all the Tone Mapping values were wrong. Even loading a previous saved preset (RC5 version) doesn't change the Tone Mapping values at all.
I had to put them manually again...

My assistant tried to open that CXR file with her computer and it works fine and the preset is loaded succesfully, but on other CXRs she has the same issues as me.

Any clues???

Thanks,

Dionysios -

Hi,

Do you have RC5, Standalone, DRServer of latest version (which come with RC5) installed on both/all computers doing the render?
Are you able to reproduce this locally, without distributed rendering?

I have tried multiple times and was not able to reproduce this on my machine. Tone Mapping settings loaded all fine when opening the CXRs.

Nevertheless, I will test this yet again.
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2022-04-12, 12:29:20
Reply #30

Jahred

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Hello,

The last daily build (RC4 & RC5, since ACES RT) seems to have broken the VFB update :

I opened a scene adding the new operator "ACES RT", I got an error message due to the fact that I already had the old operator "ACES RRT" and it will be replaced. Since this message, impossible to have a dynamic update of the VFB with the RC4 & 5, I had to regress to the RC2 version for it to work again.

A empty scene with the cameras and where the VFB bug is present is attached. It seems related to Dionysios.TS bug.

2022-04-12, 12:33:23
Reply #31

Dionysios.TS

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RC5 is installed everywhere!

Locally it works fine BTW, no issues.

2022-04-13, 12:14:50
Reply #32

rowmanns

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Hello,

The last daily build (RC4 & RC5, since ACES RT) seems to have broken the VFB update :

I opened a scene adding the new operator "ACES RT", I got an error message due to the fact that I already had the old operator "ACES RRT" and it will be replaced. Since this message, impossible to have a dynamic update of the VFB with the RC4 & 5, I had to regress to the RC2 version for it to work again.

A empty scene with the cameras and where the VFB bug is present is attached. It seems related to Dionysios.TS bug.
Hi,

There is a bug in RC5 which causes camera override pipelines not to update when the IR isn't running.

This will be fixed in the next build, I just tested your scene here and it works fine.

Rowan
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2022-04-14, 08:24:33
Reply #33

lamar_ray

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Hello everyone, I need to know if there is an implementation to keep some points of the default tone mapper, corona was born with the intention of making the desired achievement simple and fast, now from version 7 for some things but from 8 it is incomprehensible having to load a frame buffer preset every time ..?!?!? when starting 3dsmax, why? it is becoming more and more vray ...... it makes no sense.

2022-04-20, 11:34:47
Reply #34

LorenzoS

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Hi,
I noticed that corona8 does not recognize the Tone Mapping of corona7.
A rather boring problem, often having to reuse or modify files made with corona7.
Is there a solution to this or at least a script?

thank you

2022-04-20, 11:42:16
Reply #35

LorenzoS

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Quote
Hi,
I noticed that corona8 does not recognize the Tone Mapping of corona7.
A rather boring problem, often having to reuse or modify files made with corona7.
Is there a solution to this or at least a script?

thank you

as not said, it works except for lut.

2022-04-20, 12:53:16
Reply #36

rowmanns

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Quote
Hi,
I noticed that corona8 does not recognize the Tone Mapping of corona7.
A rather boring problem, often having to reuse or modify files made with corona7.
Is there a solution to this or at least a script?

thank you

as not said, it works except for lut.
Hi,

I don't quite undertstand, can you please explain what the issue is?

Rowan
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2022-04-20, 13:50:35
Reply #37

LorenzoS

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when i load a file made with corona7 and i open it with corona8 the lut present in tone mapping  in VFB not load the file LUT that was present in corona7

2022-04-20, 23:14:36
Reply #38

lupaz

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when i load a file made with corona7 and i open it with corona8 the lut present in tone mapping  in VFB not load the file LUT that was present in corona7

Having issues like that too. I uninstalled Corona 8 for now, but will report when I have more time.
Basically the renderings look different. Not sure why yet.

2022-04-21, 15:03:49
Reply #39

cgiout

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I'm still having problems with LUTs .cube btw.
They don't open because they aren't in standard format. Well known issue common to just a few like me.


2022-04-22, 12:16:39
Reply #40

DelightingPictures

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It is impossible to work with the new frame buffer.
Randomly when opening the .cxr files, some keep the parameters, others don't, others sometimes, others don't, in some computers yes, in others  computers no, it's CRAZY. Now we have more than 30 renders from different cameras, and randomly each file is visualized with post or without post, etc.

2022-04-22, 12:43:13
Reply #41

Dionysios.TS

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Yes and I confirm the same problem which randomly happens. I wrote about it a while ago!

2022-04-22, 13:06:10
Reply #42

GeorgeK

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It is impossible to work with the new frame buffer.
Randomly when opening the .cxr files, some keep the parameters, others don't, others sometimes, others don't, in some computers yes, in others  computers no, it's CRAZY. Now we have more than 30 renders from different cameras, and randomly each file is visualized with post or without post, etc.
Yes and I confirm the same problem which randomly happens. I wrote about it a while ago!

Removing the following Corona folder from your 3dsMax ENU should resolve the issue, can you please verify?

Steps:
Close any 3dsMax that is currently open, delete ONLY the Corona folder (or backup, remove it from the root folder temporarily) from your ENU location: C:\Users\<Username>\AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMax\20** - 64bit\ENU\en-US\plugcfg\corona (Be sure to restart 3dsMax), do not resave the original scene in V8 and only open the old/original one with Corona v8.

Re-Open your scene in v.8 then select the camera, go to its modify panel see if the overrides are enabled for tone mapping (disable it if unwanted), and then please check if tone mapping parameters are still wrong in the VFB.

(Report ID=CRMAX-1492)
« Last Edit: 2022-04-22, 13:59:39 by GeorgeK »
George Karampelas | chaos-corona.com
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2022-04-22, 13:51:28
Reply #43

Dionysios.TS

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Great to know about this solution! Unfortunately I can't try it till next Wednesday, I am out of office.

2022-04-22, 14:10:12
Reply #44

DelightingPictures

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It is impossible to work with the new frame buffer.
Randomly when opening the .cxr files, some keep the parameters, others don't, others sometimes, others don't, in some computers yes, in others  computers no, it's CRAZY. Now we have more than 30 renders from different cameras, and randomly each file is visualized with post or without post, etc.
Yes and I confirm the same problem which randomly happens. I wrote about it a while ago!

Removing the following Corona folder from your 3dsMax ENU should resolve the issue, can you please verify?

Steps:
Close any 3dsMax that is currently open, delete ONLY the Corona folder (or backup, remove it from the root folder temporarily) from your ENU location: C:\Users\<Username>\AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMax\20** - 64bit\ENU\en-US\plugcfg\corona (Be sure to restart 3dsMax), do not resave the original scene in V8 and only open the old/original one with Corona v8.

Re-Open your scene in v.8 then select the camera, go to its modify panel see if the overrides are enabled for tone mapping (disable it if unwanted), and then please check if tone mapping parameters are still wrong in the VFB.

(Report ID=CRMAX-1492)

It doesn't necessarily happen only in 3dsmax, also outside of it, with CIE directly.
Does this also solve the whole post problem when opening .cxr independently in CIE?
Sorry for my english.

2022-04-25, 02:58:31
Reply #45

VASLAVO

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Hi guys, not 100% related to tone mapping but most of the time when i try to copy the current VFB on interactive rendering the max gets frozen and hangs, computer spec: AMD threadripper 3090x, 256 gb ram, video card 3080TI

2022-04-25, 10:06:29
Reply #46

GeorgeK

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Quote
It doesn't necessarily happen only in 3dsmax, also outside of it, with CIE directly.
Does this also solve the whole post problem when opening .cxr independently in CIE?
Sorry for my english.

We didn't encounter any issues with CIE yet so I am unaware if it does affect it, also the aforementioned solution doesn't seem to work for some so it's still under investigation.
George Karampelas | chaos-corona.com
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2022-04-27, 19:15:26
Reply #47

dj_buckley

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Hey guys.  Love the new tonemapping so far.  ACES OT and then season to taste with the tone curve seems to be the one for me.  ACES OT clips the highlights just a bit too much for my liking but that can be easily brought back with the Tone Curve operator.  Lovely stuff.

One thing that would be nice would be to have a histogram visible in the framebuffer without needing to add a curves operator and then click another button to open the curves window.  I'm not talking about something i can adjust, just a visual representation of the histogram that reacts to any changes I make in the tone curve operator for example.

Also I've had a couple of instances where saving a tone mapping config and then loading it again, results in a completely random stack of operators being loaded.

Just to add to this it appears some of the operators affect visible HDRI backgrounds a little to strongly, for example, if there is visible vignetting in the HDRI, adjusting the shadows of the Tone Curver operator seems to affect the vignetting and even some midtone, whilst the vignetting is technically a shadow, it's nowhere near the 'darkest' parts of the image.
« Last Edit: 2022-04-28, 09:52:01 by dj_buckley »

2022-05-02, 16:40:17
Reply #48

rowmanns

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Hey guys.  Love the new tonemapping so far.  ACES OT and then season to taste with the tone curve seems to be the one for me.  ACES OT clips the highlights just a bit too much for my liking but that can be easily brought back with the Tone Curve operator.  Lovely stuff.

One thing that would be nice would be to have a histogram visible in the framebuffer without needing to add a curves operator and then click another button to open the curves window.  I'm not talking about something i can adjust, just a visual representation of the histogram that reacts to any changes I make in the tone curve operator for example.

Also I've had a couple of instances where saving a tone mapping config and then loading it again, results in a completely random stack of operators being loaded.

Just to add to this it appears some of the operators affect visible HDRI backgrounds a little to strongly, for example, if there is visible vignetting in the HDRI, adjusting the shadows of the Tone Curver operator seems to affect the vignetting and even some midtone, whilst the vignetting is technically a shadow, it's nowhere near the 'darkest' parts of the image.
Hi,

We can log those as feature requests.

Regarding the bug of saving and loading the tonemapping config. Do you have a scene where this is reproduceable?

If so I'd like to take a look.

Thanks,

Rowan
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Send me your scene!

2022-05-03, 10:27:03
Reply #49

dj_buckley

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Unfortunately not, but I saved a config in one scene, then tried to load it in a different scene and thats when the random stack loaded.

2022-05-31, 18:18:12
Reply #50

piotrus3333

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one thing about ACES OT - is the drop of one stop of exposure really necessary? I know it matches ACES OCIO lin to srgb transform but this does not make any sense now.

edit:
https://polyhaven.com/a/brown_photostudio_02

« Last Edit: 2022-05-31, 22:52:46 by piotrus3333 »
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2022-05-31, 18:51:05
Reply #51

piotrus3333

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and custom LUT in CIE:
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2022-05-31, 21:45:32
Reply #52

Dionysios.TS

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one thing about ACES OT - is the drop of one stop of exposure really necessary? I know it matches ACES OCIO lin to srgb transform but this does not make any sense now.

Thanks for mentioning it, I've notice that too.

2022-06-03, 17:34:46
Reply #53

maru

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We have this logged, and some of the possible outcomes include:
- making the exposure consistent regardless if ACES OT is on/off
- explaining why it should not be done

We will definitely share some updates on this ASAP.

(Internal ID=909121934)
Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
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2022-06-03, 18:13:33
Reply #54

Dionysios.TS

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We have this logged, and some of the possible outcomes include:
- making the exposure consistent regardless if ACES OT is on/off
- explaining why it should not be done

We will definitely share some updates on this ASAP.

(Internal ID=909121934)

Thanks for the updates and personally I am looking forward for your news!

Have a nice weekend,

Dionysios -

2022-06-04, 11:20:45
Reply #55

piotrus3333

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while I was waiting for some clarification I asked the same on YT. Then I deleted the comment as I realised the forum is the right place for it - but I got a reply anyway. As it is not visible on YT I will share it here as it explains the logic behind ACES OT:

“ There certainly is - two reasons in fact. One is that to change the exposure here could adjust sampling in Corona and the amount of noise, and the second is to ensure that the ACES OT is an industry standard (which does not include any exposure compensations in it). In other words, "if you saved the raw image in Corona, loaded it in e.g. Nuke (or any other package which supports ACES workflow), set up the color science properly and displayed it via ACES pipeline, it would look nearly identical as the output you see in Corona with ACES OT enabled." - while if we added exposure compensation as an additional step in the ACES OT itself, this would no longer be true (and it would no longer be ACES OT, but "ACES OT + Exposure). Last, it is not expected that ACES OT be toggled on or off really; it is expected it is either chosen to be part of your final workflow or not, thus the Simple or Photographic exposure would be set accordingly for it either on or off and there would be no inconvenience there then. If you did have a scene that for some reason mixes both workflows, you could just save configs or set up different cameras with their own unique tone mapping stacks, and in either cases ACES OT would be enabled or disabled and appropriate exposure set to match it. Hope that helps! Tom”
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2022-06-06, 11:26:45
Reply #56

maru

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one thing about ACES OT - is the drop of one stop of exposure really necessary? I know it matches ACES OCIO lin to srgb transform but this does not make any sense now.

Thanks for mentioning it, I've notice that too.

@Piotrus3333 @Dionysios.TS - could you please explain in what exact situations the current behavior is a problem for you? Why would you like to have this changed? (I do have my own ideas, but wanted to hear it from you as a part of research what would be the best solution here)

Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
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2022-06-06, 13:19:09
Reply #57

piotrus3333

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@Piotrus3333 @Dionysios.TS - could you please explain in what exact situations the current behavior is a problem for you? Why would you like to have this changed? (I do have my own ideas, but wanted to hear it from you as a part of research what would be the best solution here)

it's not a problem at all if you know what is happening under the hood. but ACES OT is there by default, ready to be turned on and in its current state it is hardly the "one click tone mapping" that users were expecting.
just copy the AMPAS curve from V-Ray I guess and make this one default. or remove ACES OT from default layer stack and add Corona ACES filmic to preset list (ACES OT + one stop of exposure).
average Corona user would appreciate much more an easy match to V-Ray's output than an easy match to material within colour managed compositing pipeline...

quick comparison of "one click" tone mapping options in Corona:
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2022-06-06, 13:29:50
Reply #58

maru

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Can you explain what exactly those images are showing? Which operators are used in which case?
Also, could you upload them one by one instead of a single image so that it would be easier to switch between them and compare?
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2022-06-06, 14:12:07
Reply #59

piotrus3333

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Can you explain what exactly those images are showing? Which operators are used in which case?
Also, could you upload them one by one instead of a single image so that it would be easier to switch between them and compare?

I posted more detailed comparison in one of the previous posts. this one just shows what difference one lost stop of exposure makes. just quick glance and pick the best looking one. three sort of "one click" solutions: Corona's Filmic, ACES OT and simulated AMPAS. details below:

edit: LUT https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=28156.msg192497#msg192497

« Last Edit: 2022-06-06, 14:17:31 by piotrus3333 »
Marcin Piotrowski
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2022-06-06, 14:22:52
Reply #60

Dionysios.TS

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one thing about ACES OT - is the drop of one stop of exposure really necessary? I know it matches ACES OCIO lin to srgb transform but this does not make any sense now.

Thanks for mentioning it, I've notice that too.

@Piotrus3333 @Dionysios.TS - could you please explain in what exact situations the current behavior is a problem for you? Why would you like to have this changed? (I do have my own ideas, but wanted to hear it from you as a part of research what would be the best solution here)

Hello Maru,

from one side I find personally the ACES OT much way better on everything and I finally see the missing details I was missing with the old legacy version. I do my final color correction always in Lightroom and the ACES OT now gives me a very good base!

When I have no time for a complete manual color correction sometimes I prefer to produce an image by applying a LUT in CIE and the only issue I find is that it produces a lot of contrast in some cases specially if I use some of the Photographic LUTs like the series of Kim_Amland_Photographic and Adanmq_Canon_DSC for example.

I would like to see a good integration of this ACES workflow but not delete it please!!!!

Thanks!

2022-06-14, 11:16:20
Reply #61

dianalacruz

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I like the customization options, but I'm having trouble saving and loading configurations: I can't load some .config files onto any other .cxr than the one where I saved them.
I find it a bit annoying.

2022-06-14, 13:38:18
Reply #62

rowmanns

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I like the customization options, but I'm having trouble saving and loading configurations: I can't load some .config files onto any other .cxr than the one where I saved them.
I find it a bit annoying.
Hi,

Saving and loading issues should be fixed in v8 HF1 which was released a few minutes ago.

Please can you install it and try it there?

Rowan
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Send me your scene!

2022-07-07, 12:53:01
Reply #63

dianalacruz

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Yeah! Solved