Chaos Corona Forum
Chaos Corona for 3ds Max => [Max] Daily Builds => Topic started by: maru on 2019-04-23, 20:27:19
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Today marks the day when Corona + Caustics became reality!
We hope that you are as excited as we are, and that you will share your experiments in this thread!
The daily build is available to all license holders. Info and download:
https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/5000570015
The new caustics can be enabled with a checkbox in the Performance tab.
Any tests are welcome, and we are super interested in your feedback.
More about using the new caustics on the helpdesk:
https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/12000056738
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This looks great - can't wait to give it a try!
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Inevitable one.
Good Luck
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Congrats team- a beer is in order! Quick shots focusing on reflective vs. refractive.
Suggestion: My shop does a lot of work in visualization for glass products, and one thing that helps a lot is controlling the caustics in post (thank you for including a separate pass for caustics). However- what would be great is if we could control it directly in the VFB for Corona. Is it possible to figure out a way to treat the caustics like a light in lightmixer so we essentially turn it up/down via exposure? A further suggestion (and I'm sure more complicated for denoising), would be to have a checkbox next to the light in lightmixer so you can turn each light's caustics up/down in-render.
Thanks again- looking great!
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I have absolutely no need for this in my workflow, but damn if don't think this is cool. Have fun
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So much need for this! love it! 15min's at 2500px wide, no denoise on a shitty 4core i7. (looks like the image size was lowered through something, could have been FB where it was posted before I remembered this thread. anyway it's looking really promising!
lit with a single hdri.
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I don't know or really think it has to do with the new caustics per say, but it's very clear that using an hdri with a more complex glass object, generates some nasty fireflies, made super obvious here with dispersion as they are all coloured.
I am running denoise "remove fireflies" on 1.0 in this test. Is there any way around this?
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Super exciting news guys! Well done.
I did a very quick test, see attached. I'm getting a sort of double shadow (one shadow, in the correct place according to the location of the sun, and the offset caustics). Is this normal, physically behaviour?
Seems kinda wrong to me. Am I missing something?
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Super exciting news guys! Well done.
I did a very quick test, see attached. I'm getting a sort of double shadow (one shadow, in the correct place according to the location of the sun, and the offset caustics). Is this normal, physically behaviour?
Seems kinda wrong to me. Am I missing something?
yes, it is normal, since the geometry setup is unphysical. It will look better if you model it properly
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Seems kinda wrong to me. Am I missing something?
If you would like the caustics to perfectly overlap with the shadow, you would have to set IOR of that material to 1.0. ;)
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
Another issue discovered (though its working pretty damn well and I'm loving this!).
I'm using displacement map for the waves in this pool. It's working well, very fast. However, I'm guessing the calculations of the displacement are causing problems with the projection of the caustics. See two attachments - the first (camera) is incorrect, the caustics stop (near the black line - coincidental), however, if I change the view slightly (so more of the pool is visible) and restart the render, the caustics renders properly. If I then switch back to the camera view (without restarting the render) the caustics renders properly from the camera.
I hope this makes sense - happy to share scene if helpful. Any suggestions how I might overcome this problem?
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Don't get me wrong, this features is one of the killer features, and it's so useful in many cases. But, because of the overwhelming NaNs pixels and slow render time, it is kinda useless in animation productions...
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Without wasting time I started working with caustics, so my results were weird at the beginning.
The issue you see on "Test 02" was caused by a missing texture, on a network path that wasn't even part of this shot.
Other than that MAN can't wait to try my water splashes now!
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
Another issue discovered (though its working pretty damn well and I'm loving this!).
I'm using displacement map for the waves in this pool. It's working well, very fast. However, I'm guessing the calculations of the displacement are causing problems with the projection of the caustics. See two attachments - the first (camera) is incorrect, the caustics stop (near the black line - coincidental), however, if I change the view slightly (so more of the pool is visible) and restart the render, the caustics renders properly. If I then switch back to the camera view (without restarting the render) the caustics renders properly from the camera.
I hope this makes sense - happy to share scene if helpful. Any suggestions how I might overcome this problem?
Either switch to "World size" displacement in the Performance tab (this will calculate displacement globally, not just for the camera view, but may be slower and more RAM-consuming), or use this string option:
float geometry.displace.maxSizeScreenOutFrustumMultiplier = 1
More on string options: https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/5000518663-string-options
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Don't get me wrong, this features is one of the killer features, and it's so useful in many cases. But, because of the overwhelming NaNs pixels and slow render time, it is kinda useless in animation productions...
Please send us any scenes where you are getting NaNs and slow rendering. We will do our best to fix it!
Also, we have not encountered any NaNs in our internal tests, so your help is invaluable!
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Don't get me wrong, this features is one of the killer features, and it's so useful in many cases. But, because of the overwhelming NaNs pixels and slow render time, it is kinda useless in animation productions...
NaNs are easily fixable once we get repro scene. But for animations, I am afraid caustics in v4 will be reserved for the ultimate high-end, due to the performance cost
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Hi guys,
just experimenting with the new caustics solver.
Same glass material is working in an empty scene but not in the scene file where it's from.
I would expect some caustics because of the strong sunlight. Am I wrong or doing it wrong?
Thanks for your feedback in advance.
Belle
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Hi. Looks like the last pic (caustic not working) isn't an perspective view. If that's the case, then try it with perspective.
Hope it helps
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Also don't forget there is a limitation at the moment: "One very strong light may disable caustics from weaker lights (will be fixed soon)." (so, e.g., adding an HDRI to your scene might cause caustics to disappear). Check https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/12000056738-how-to-render-caustics-with-the-new-caustics-solver- for known limitations.
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Hi guys,
just experimenting with the new caustics solver.
Same glass material is working in an empty scene but not in the scene file where it's from.
I would expect some caustics because of the strong sunlight. Am I wrong or doing it wrong?
Thanks for your feedback in advance.
Belle
Does it help if you reset render settings? ("Reset settings" button in the Scene tab)
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Thank you. I just reset the settings but it didn't work either. Guess it's because of the limitation...
Hi guys,
just experimenting with the new caustics solver.
Same glass material is working in an empty scene but not in the scene file where it's from.
I would expect some caustics because of the strong sunlight. Am I wrong or doing it wrong?
Thanks for your feedback in advance.
Belle
Does it help if you reset render settings? ("Reset settings" button in the Scene tab)
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it's amazing) i wish reflected rays were calculated and scattered in the fog too))
could we expect this in the near future?
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Just two images where I was testing some quick modifications to existing scenes.
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Hi guys,
just experimenting with the new caustics solver.
Same glass material is working in an empty scene but not in the scene file where it's from.
I would expect some caustics because of the strong sunlight. Am I wrong or doing it wrong?
Thanks for your feedback in advance.
Belle
Is the other scene by any chance lit by sunny HDRI instead of CoronaSun?
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it's amazing) i wish reflected rays were calculated and scattered in the fog too))
could we expect this in the near future?
You have to ad a copy of the ball, scaled (100,1%) with that volume material apllied on. It seems that a ray is not "continuous" in a meaning of path from light source to camera, so even the reflected ray have to go through 2 planes of volume object. I hope it's understandable :D
Also you can't have allowed only single bounce in volume material settings, then you render only scattering of direct light.
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Ah an exterior with bounced GI, what could be missing in a scene like this, nothing at all, this is how they have always looked! Reflected caustics off the glass windows perhaps?
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Of course there are wishes, it is felt that the product is raw. But even at this stage it looks very impressive.
Very cool caustic. You are geniuses! :)
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Doing my best to get this to work - is there a switch asides from the material one to get caustics to start rendering?
I am not getting any better or any faster caustics than the previous corona 3 version - Is there a trick to use this?
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@rombo: check out post #18 right above :)
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it's amazing) i wish reflected rays were calculated and scattered in the fog too))
could we expect this in the near future?
You have to ad a copy of the ball, scaled (100,1%) with that volume material apllied on. It seems that a ray is not "continuous" in a meaning of path from light source to camera, so even the reflected ray have to go through 2 planes of volume object. I hope it's understandable :D
Also you can't have allowed only single bounce in volume material settings, then you render only scattering of direct light.
nope, its not working for me, ive just tried different variations of this method) but in future it will be cool to create scenes with laser beams reflecting from a lot of mirrors)) devs, it is possible?
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test
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Just to dispel any doubts about the volumetric caustics: currently caustics in the volumes are calculated the old way, meaning that the new solver is not used. They will render, but very slowly. It's listed as one of the limitations here: https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/12000056738
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Does anybody tried to render caustics without adaptivity? I've noticed that rays/s falls dramatically the moment adaptivity kicks in, but hadn't time to test it without adaptivity.
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That little caustics devouring fellow should't be missing either.
Good Luck
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Hi guys,
just experimenting with the new caustics solver.
Same glass material is working in an empty scene but not in the scene file where it's from.
I would expect some caustics because of the strong sunlight. Am I wrong or doing it wrong?
Thanks for your feedback in advance.
Belle
Hi!
Do you have the same light sources in both scenes?
It the second scene much bigger than what we can actually see in the image?
Actually having the scene would really help us to solve this issue :)
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Loving it- really adds another level to the game. I bet we are going to see a lot of images with extra photoshop boosted caustics element for some time now :D
I think I´ve found a limitation. I´m trying to use caustics in a pool. Everything works well until I unhide landscape which covers a very large area (few kilometres). It then won´t render caustics at all.
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Yes. Both issues may be this:
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=22530.msg147946#msg147946
(See 2.)
I didn't want to spam this thread with it.
Good Luck
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Yes. Both issues may be this:
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=22530.msg147946#msg147946
(See 2.)
I didn't want to spam this thread with it.
Good Luck
I have found.
Scene: a sphere, a plane, an enable caustic. The size of the plane is 2000x2000 cm. You increase to 2000000x2000000, the caustic disappears. You return the plane size 2000x2000, Turn on the interactive render, increase the plane to 2000000x2000000. Caustic works!
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Loving it- really adds another level to the game. I bet we are going to see a lot of images with extra photoshop boosted caustics element for some time now :D
I think I´ve found a limitation. I´m trying to use caustics in a pool. Everything works well until I unhide landscape which covers a very large area (few kilometres). It then won´t render caustics at all.
Yes, this is a current limitation of our caustics solver. If the scene is extremely large compared to the caustics, they will disappear.
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Loving it- really adds another level to the game. I bet we are going to see a lot of images with extra photoshop boosted caustics element for some time now :D
I think I´ve found a limitation. I´m trying to use caustics in a pool. Everything works well until I unhide landscape which covers a very large area (few kilometres). It then won´t render caustics at all.
Yes, this is a current limitation of our caustics solver. If the scene is extremely large compared to the caustics, they will disappear.
Would it be possible, until this is properly solved of course, to allow caustics to work but only up to a certain distance from the camera/perspective view? So perhaps they could work up to 100m from camera in a sphere then disappear or something. Just to help get things working on normal every-day scenes?
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Does anybody tried to render caustics without adaptivity? I've noticed that rays/s falls dramatically the moment adaptivity kicks in, but hadn't time to test it without adaptivity.
I did quick test and indeed it looks that caustics and adaptivity doesn't go along well. Noise in caustics cleans much better without adaptivity.
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Have you looked at the sampling focus with adaptivity enabled? Just asking if it was reasonable in your opinion. In my tests I had nothing to complain and it worked well. Except for the dragon scene when I added global volume :) Sampling focus looks like snow and after 500 passes and 1:26 render time I reached 5.23% noise ;]
Good Luck
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Loving it- really adds another level to the game. I bet we are going to see a lot of images with extra photoshop boosted caustics element for some time now :D
I think I´ve found a limitation. I´m trying to use caustics in a pool. Everything works well until I unhide landscape which covers a very large area (few kilometres). It then won´t render caustics at all.
Yes, this is a current limitation of our caustics solver. If the scene is extremely large compared to the caustics, they will disappear.
Would it be possible, until this is properly solved of course, to allow caustics to work but only up to a certain distance from the camera/perspective view? So perhaps they could work up to 100m from camera in a sphere then disappear or something. Just to help get things working on normal every-day scenes?
We will try to do something about this issue
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Have you looked at the sampling focus with adaptivity enabled? Just asking if it was reasonable in your opinion. In my tests I had nothing to complain and it worked well. Except for the dragon scene when I added global volume :) Sampling focus looks like snow and after 500 passes and 1:26 render time I reached 5.23% noise ;]
Good Luck
Not for this particular test, but i did look at sampling focus earlier and it seems that adaptivity is aware of caustics, but for some reasons it just makes noise worse.
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If adaptivity puts more samples inside caustics, it will slow down rays/s (because we are doing expensive caustics lookups more), but the caustics do not get better - it is more samples reusing the same batch of photons, so no net improvements. If this is the case, it should be fairly straightforward to fix
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I'm quite surprised you choose the photon mapping route (or maybe not->). What about VCM (maybe it is already) or UPBP (I know you're familiar with those ones ;) ) or even Bidir MLT? This is still a great addition in its current state but I found the results pretty noisy (speckles) or blotchy at times. Wouldn't one of the aforementioned algorithms be more suited in some cases?
The only drawback I can see is that's you'll be almost constrained to remove MSI for the caustics to works with those, leading to very high render times and speckles fest. Is that the main blocker?
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I was tried to test on old scenes with glass in different scenarios with liquid and without. And i do not see good result with caustic, it barely visible. Is this something wrong with my scene setup? Is it required some special light to see caustic more brighter?
In new simple scene i can see it because i am trying to see it, but in scene with more complex light and materials like absorption in liquid or ice cube it's almost not visible.
here scenes without caustic what was tested https://i.imgur.com/Ha8ema8.jpg
they was saved in old version of corona
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Bear in mind the limitation in the current build that will be fixed, where one light source can make the caustics disappear (most often this shows as "enable an HDRI environment, and the caustics from other light sources disappear).
I've had no trouble with absorption, e.g. thick glass. So I suspect this is just the issue above (which is noted as a limitation at the moment on the web page).
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Yes all my scenes lights with hdri and other several light source for reflection on glass, thanks for explanation
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NP! I had the same thing happen to me, just adding an HDRI caused the bright sunlight to stop creating caustics - is on the cards to be fixed before release though.
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I suppose another limitation is how it works with shadowcatcher?
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Caustic just works with simple scenes. When all objects were unhiding, caustic was invisible - it just worked a couple of time.
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The new Caustics are just pure gold, very well done Dev`s!
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Update: it works now, but just for only one light in my scene, when I added a new light, the sun's caustic is off.
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I suppose another limitation is how it works with shadowcatcher?
I fear this is Pandora's Box. But yes, we would need a CausticCatcher or a consolidated matte material able to do both (and more).
Good Luck
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Is this known limitation that when you use Volumetrics with caustics the render goes black as soon as caustics kick in?
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Overall i think there is something wrong with calculation of number and randomisation of rays caused by caustics, when there is more than 1-2 lightsources and dificult reflective materials (bump, complex glossines etc) it freaks out and stays with the first raycast of caustics wich causes a lot of overbright fireflys wich are not removed by the denoiser nor intel nor native.
I will try to provide proving tests for my words in couple of days.
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Update: it works now, but just for only one light in my scene, when I added a new light, the sun's caustic is off.
Could you perhaps share this scene (or maybe its simplified version where this issue still occurs)?
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I suppose another limitation is how it works with shadowcatcher?
I fear this is Pandora's Box. But yes, we would need a CausticCatcher or a consolidated matte material able to do both (and more).
Good Luck
What you mean by this? Currently caustics should be displayed on shadowcatcher? Is this something that you don't want? Or is it just not working?
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Is this known limitation that when you use Volumetrics with caustics the render goes black as soon as caustics kick in?
This looks like a bug. Could you please provide a scene for us?
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What you mean by this?
You cannot use simply "For compositing" currently like for shadows (and reflection to some extent) because the shadow catcher alpha does not respect caustics. So you would need the CShading_Caustic pass + additionally any arbitrary object mask to have caustics properly prepared for compositing on matte shadow catcher objects.
Good Luck
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Is this known limitation that when you use Volumetrics with caustics the render goes black as soon as caustics kick in?
This looks like a bug. Could you please provide a scene for us?
If I will be able to reproduce it then yes, but its the same scene that Maru has from me. Just added some mist to check how do they work and as soon as caustics kicked in WABANG it goes black.
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I'm impressed !
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Quick test with reflective caustics on my mountain bike frame that I'm modeling.
I'll try on larger and more complex scenes later..
So far, I'm impressed!
(https://gionacg.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/tyee_caustics.jpg)
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Is there a way to exclude a reflective object from the caustics calculation?
I think it could be usefull to have a caustic button like for the refraction, but for reflective caustics. In this way we can optimize a huge scene..
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Is there a way to exclude a reflective object from the caustics calculation?
I think it could be usefull to have a caustic button like for the refraction, but for reflective caustics. In this way we can optimize a huge scene..
Currently only by using the RaySwitch material (with black or otherwise non-reflective GI slot).
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Is there a way to exclude a reflective object from the caustics calculation?
I think it could be usefull to have a caustic button like for the refraction, but for reflective caustics. In this way we can optimize a huge scene..
Currently only by using the RaySwitch material (with black or otherwise non-reflective GI slot).
Ok, thanks!
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What you mean by this? Currently caustics should be displayed on shadowcatcher? Is this something that you don't want? Or is it just not working?
To my scenes above caustic was not works with shadowcatcher, as i was used photos as background.
And yes it produce too much white noisy bounce on complex material with bumps like ice for example as Nekrobul said
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Prism Trap technical feature
/adaptivity off/
(https://i.imgur.com/iOkwgfY.jpg)
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I'm in love :]
(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24520.0;attach=103563)
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I'm in love :]
(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24520.0;attach=103563)
This one was a good test, too bad that it's conducted on an object with "flat" mesh. But still looks cool
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on an object with "flat" mesh
What does that mean?
The Teapot is no a single-sided polygon, it has thickness, if that's what you mean.
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I guess he meant a more bumpy surface to get more funk in the caustics :)
Nice test tho
edit : typo
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This one was a good test, too bad that it's conducted on an object with "flat" mesh. But still looks cool
The caustics aren't affected by bump maps. Bump on left, displacement modifier on right.
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This one was a good test, too bad that it's conducted on an object with "flat" mesh. But still looks cool
The caustics aren't affected by bump maps. Bump on left, displacement modifier on right.
we fixed it already, will be included in some daily build soon
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Quick test on a 3D model from Artemide of one of their new products.
I wanted to see the differences of light with and without caustics.
What a difference! Also for the rendering time...
Without caustics: 8 min, NL 1.90, 47 passes
With caustics: 1h 30min, NL 3.29, 412 passes
Without caustics
(https://gionacg.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/atelier_caustics_off_test.jpg)
With caustics:
(https://gionacg.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/atelier_caustics_test.jpg)
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I modeled a projector type headlamp as closely as possible to real-life:
material caustics off - render caustics off:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6ez1SyUkRkRdsg2e4Hzqmcdx8i9brS-tVWBuIElrEtuksoSy_GpEK_cy50Rri7e521Zl28uziwgvB81fwK3v5l2sQJOehIEmWVf9P-ra-UQZgMemm0BJXdpFs97fHLwrkqKm6q_deqV7rf3T_HeNbLtAt7KoyS-HBEBYnzweryq8m52eCNMMPjD5Qp7Yxq7bpGrxvJWJp6U7vD3Alw4D7BuIZ73WQLqRM_OmEDL-3HahhW9Y_Z2vrjeCo_BmFmvlyiy5SbN_SpkrWCjZGMTM4qb3tIv0vf0ICnutE-6QJkyk19Ylj-PZgS1TAhieBaviegHbcwnaRed_co5_BmOoB74NCqg33PyzDbj9eHfE34mYKXAX6KnAX-I182jneXHmR4JP-BFLgIvSqJNhHigg4p4YJkqu-FI2c_iIsrAr2d86kOZ6Zyc6lGa9RmMjK132SwK1JXJumAHO7EUKUzTQwVt_G5jsOp7lDpxfPV1KaARgB1m0Z2X5886jPgO53rrMmH93cd1IHRI-AoW6L4pYydmvZf6n1YBqI1y4o9nzO6CshJl4M6uzYfP_Imungv5Fk0RzkPE4XTEDxycEKyypG4WjAEh55tAhzFSG1YlBjSi3OeuC2UDHuk_BX_MRF-y0CBTPxBCOC2xnt8NGepEWoulcf2KjMiY=w1280-h720-no?pageId=103504779555619467549)
material on - render off:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Zv80mbW17CjSGZAPXwYi81pby2_nvQ0rvXIzC3a2ckSr41GhFm-z5ILAv4ymjusg6reBrnq3IyMwzA3Vk1-IDKTEK70gILTLdQUkaGXvrDbHQdHtGK8qUHsc7AE_ltX8LSeTCT3D1APbcRlFLpsgxB0FqNMLI3JYQLK8KIzQ0smSAh7Up_Fhl2azFywC3KAFw6P4-6iLcUIWtH9kkrJU-kqudSTuu0qpeWIYOgpzyTFaju6g_MqKEtRG1r-YuasonEfNUd7VaipULxi_fZ19uGOpGnZd4ZQu7cy2Ru6v8lUaWGyV4TkIHBQrRjHwcW-9Es8b0bmWDyKV-0h2Q4ohCrs9fY3D-79JI3K-3UE2ncYudImidU_GNEFuJooFHX95v0acqX2vtrGe9Bote9XiRSfH-QpGy0KRhYkTORHmT5UvPMlM_hDKtX6-3SIqWLRYBA3zLkSylYHXeRjBaIZysgsqCF24mKX6a0-PGq_BmvG6hQHiBC_DQTxPZkpLp34WPLkHFlTVSnwfQxQLD6Xhd8jDtfDZLBUJoSV1UrTMIpXN00E9_E8IrMbtgirX_88FyBgi9W5LgaC-xDE2UJUktGD7gGS8VtnoJ3sh2L1Ojkw3m6bk50a5Et7XW2S22685gDz5qNBIcCJkQbvFgmd5SJ4zenummig=w1280-h720-no?pageId=103504779555619467549)
material off - render on:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5H-QYtkbCMoxk20uljuslgFWNUHd-fikjGSkCU8MWm0vazjVf1nb0X9LcHhg00OM7fm6_k5WFJTxFj-pTJ222xo6seLYe1oQg7Nn0i624pKlVBGuHAAutZOlT2HrFmyhk-PKR5EN9Cc9GNBCYIhL2aS9tnCiAiJB1DSvsGkFWMU2P5iKaCE5KHw6dYwbfmd8eTL95dUgvbXUQuMZVmzKHcTMgONrT7A1QUaPwFP-3zG2hHYaTL7zCvnxr_m7GIHwXhf1g-o92N8cAwAWHDo6YS7u4JQdn1y-s2oaoLMuoHHok2vR0uuECtMiT6mjQIhp1clivy9Uo_x0x9TdbgsT4DGswcVjOJLnCLzDrM0dcX20w_si0nyTe0NwbIzMFqaFWJRrXZV1WNJ-xQAZkz0bgQ1ZdMG6dMyJR7donW7q7iyhAlOFBnwFnPdIiHnG09AR-d-ZsCGsdP0qKCzU7tbQbjiNCK-jCvmu_wMVF-lo5u985DpFDk4COHv9GesEAYVCHM1a69yo0M-JOAwLk-uOet5BLS42gE2QdLFyWXYoJ320Bh6CJEsdrQOyhY-ep3m08ShOGquLfbSyADhCqqPUH5JZ1jD_qqLUyvCHWR8GNTkA2Ou7e6li0FIoXE5lTgl6k_Td2mmNWb0BrPJer3RItgGhM57J47g=w1280-h720-no?pageId=103504779555619467549)
material on - render on:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2X0kxiowyA81epau2JicIw4up2_yG1NalwOBtCclbd8u0htCLTB_Caajv7yP2fJBqe9c9WpS-M_DHZQ8PCdu65YpX0MKOWgm-hzQNmIsnCV3KbqbvhKdlCK1O3M4tOmPx3UGNi7DA6ijLm0Wo4SFGunuCa5rb_UKq-N-U4cbZRdiYmiwMt6NA_qkBu0qFrUzIxq4Ds2Gpfa8nV0-S7ziIDEwdMX8ETrSyHbMut8iZxdpreQCEKd3v0lYLOj8tG6y2U8ML4aVGqMvAAzg5URgOv0jvoV4LE5BmTptx1nICTuSNEN9izFpwiPc5ygz3021t-LLPQ0l4cTQqlRx6DqhPnQAGBj-HyOW1GAQcsCIfB588ExFC3JtNcCBTenCZnFzj09Q4EgdMo8f7rmJQZIsNWq5D3homkRJge9HFwK5AGmxrsEFBDnIH8fIIoAhWMYgZGfH5u_8rSi0i5p65dDLS0zZ2wd5l1A75-fjbU1cYxhS6jfvmcK1cO3L2KNczmu-PreNfkjnEn_KWcrwJ2cwOf-CaPHsrh8mry3toMEx7p8CLX2_hyfZuI6MtzpeNEBeLEle-rsz3G8QI5YGxx4UKvjVxuixlKG7Scw37PjWuwczQDRCybdQVeik_A8ydd4MP16LvWIcbv2cu3_PrS24jQ8VCkjbRMo=w1280-h720-no?pageId=103504779555619467549)
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Since caustics are the noisiest part of the image once turned on, naturally you would want to set some setting to number crunch caustics more than the rest of the image.
As I understand, caustics are calculated with the every pass.
So If you have noise from caustics, you should lower AA vs GI to get more Passes done in the same render time, just like with DOF and MoBlur.
I tested it and it seems to be the case. Both images had a 10 minute limit. GIvsAA = 4 managed 76 Passes and GIvsAA = 32 managed 31 Passes. GIvsAA 4 was cleaner than 32.
So noise from caustics = lower GIvsAA.
Is my notion correct? Makes me recall that Dynamic GIvsAA on the roadmap...
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Since caustics are the noisiest part of the image once turned on, naturally you would want to set some setting to number crunch caustics more than the rest of the image.
As I understand, caustics are calculated with the every pass.
So If you have noise from caustics, you should lower AA vs GI to get more Passes done in the same render time, just like with DOF and MoBlur.
I tested it and it seems to be the case. Both images had a 10 minute limit. GIvsAA = 4 managed 76 Passes and GIvsAA = 32 managed 31 Passes. GIvsAA 4 was cleaner than 32.
So noise from caustics = lower GIvsAA.
Is my notion correct? Makes me recall that Dynamic GIvsAA on the roadmap...
Yes, it is exactly like you say.
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One of our recent projects was screaming out for caustics with all the glassware and colorful lights, here's the caustic's pass from one of the the cameras. The ceiling spots are supposed to be dichroic lights, faked it with 3 lights with different IES profiles and colors.
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/59ad9cdff14aa16da6bdd455/1557159740780-FSXTRLKP1H2UPHLL2109/%24180090-V003_CShading_Caustics_0000.jpg?content-type=image%2Fjpeg)
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Anyone tried the caustics on a large scene? For example reflective caustics on a road from glass facade of a tall building.
I made a quick test on an old scene, but it was not working.
I'll post later an image
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This is known limitation, currently caustics may not work in bigger scenes.
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we already fixed it and it will be probably released in next daily build
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Great! Can't wait to test the new build.
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Looking forward to the fix for larger scenes, currently moving a scene closer to the origin and at some point it seems to start working
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Caustic Courtyard!
(simplified test scene)
I wanted to be able to render something like this as easy as it is now using Corona v4 since... for quite a long time ;]
Good Luck
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One of our recent projects was screaming out for caustics with all the glassware and colorful lights, here's the caustic's pass from one of the the cameras. The ceiling spots are supposed to be dichroic lights, faked it with 3 lights with different IES profiles and colors.
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/59ad9cdff14aa16da6bdd455/1557159740780-FSXTRLKP1H2UPHLL2109/%24180090-V003_CShading_Caustics_0000.jpg?content-type=image%2Fjpeg)
AmajGawd this looks amazing
This is exactly the caustics I was waiting for in corona
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Another test.
Inspired by an artistic installation by Finnbogi Petursson.
I'll try to refine this image with better shaders, and I'm planning to make a short animation.
(https://gionacg.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/tides_test_1.jpg)
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was the fix for larger scenes included in the daily build on the 7th? dont see anything about it in the changelog
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was the fix for larger scenes included in the daily build on the 7th? dont see anything about it in the changelog
Hi,
It was not in that build (7th), it will be coming soon though.
Thanks,
Rowan
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are .ies lights supported with caustics?
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are .ies lights supported with caustics?
AFAIK any sort of Corona Light should be supported with caustics, whatever parameters you give it (e.g. enabled an IES profile). Does your experience suggest otherwise? If so, we'd love to hear about it!
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was the fix for larger scenes included in the daily build on the 7th? dont see anything about it in the changelog
Hi,
It was not in that build (7th), it will be coming soon though.
Thanks,
Rowan
Thanks Rowan!
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Build 2019-05-09 (sorry, it took us a bit longer than expected to test this build)
- Fixes and improvements of the fast caustics solver
- Fixed issue when caustics disappear after adding new light sources
- Fixed issue when caustics disappear after adding large geometry
- Caustics are now influenced by bump mapping
- Caustics now work with rayswitch material
- Added fisheye projection type to CoronaCamera
Caustics fixes are in the latest daily. Looking forward to your feedback :)
Cheers,
Rowan
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sorry, it took us a bit longer than expected to test this build
You guys are the most consistently active / interactive devs I have ever witnessed. Literally nothing to say sorry for :]
Feels almost like this situation... (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42009839)
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sorry, it took us a bit longer than expected to test this build
You guys are the most consistently active / interactive devs I have ever witnessed. Literally nothing to say sorry for :]
Feels almost like this situation... (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42009839)
+1 to this, the Corona team is amazingly fast and effective. It's a pleasure to keep an eye on the daily build thread and just watch the features and fixes roll in. I remember the day Optix integration came out...I was giddy all day, hehe.
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I'm testing caustics on a quite large scene with a lot of glass and reflective materials. In this scene there are 3 houses and a lot of scattered vegetation.
The first test was not good. I turned off the grass scatter to try to improve the speed.
(https://gionacg.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/caustics_full_scene.jpg)
Second test with a simplified scene, just one house, some trees and the ground was on.
With this scene it started to work quite well.
(https://gionacg.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/caustics_simple_scene.jpg)
(https://gionacg.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/caustics_pool.jpg)
The main problem that I see is that with large scenes with a lot of metallic or glass materials, the computation can be quite slow. If we can have a button to deactivate reflective caustics from materials that are not important, maybe we can have faster caustics.
The rayswitch option is not the best one, especially when working with a lot of different shaders.
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Would definitely agree that having this available as a simple check-box in materials would be fantastic. That way you can limit the effect only to what you need, such as pool water, and keep computation simplified.
For us I can see this very much being a love-it/hate-it thing for certain clients. The more control we have over where they are generated from/to and compositing options the better this will be. No, it's not realistic, but some clients just insist...
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I agree with that but there must be overrides to turn caustics for everything then. Just try to not flip the issue on the other side of the coin.
Caustics for everything (two separate options for both reflective and refractive ones) or only selected ones (in material properties)
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Would definitely agree that having this available as a simple check-box in materials would be fantastic. That way you can limit the effect only to what you need, such as pool water, and keep computation simplified.
For us I can see this very much being a love-it/hate-it thing for certain clients. The more control we have over where they are generated from/to and compositing options the better this will be. No, it's not realistic, but some clients just insist...
QFA. Also, it's needed in cases like the one posted above where you run into super-long render times. That alone would make it a much needed option.
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My tech demo shown on Total Chaos 2019
Thanks for co-operation to TomG which helped a lot with making experiment more live and with the hardware side of this production :)
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My tech demo shown on Total Chaos 2019
Thanks for co-operation to TomG which helped a lot with making experiment more live and with the hardware side of this production :)
After a few moves, it would be nice if the prism rotated or something. Nice portfolio entry tho.
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After a few moves, it would be nice if the prism rotated or something. Nice portfolio entry tho.
Yeah, but that would mean much more rendering ;]
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After a few moves, it would be nice if the prism rotated or something. Nice portfolio entry tho.
Yeah, but that would mean much more rendering ;]
Yeah, time was limited before the conference presentation, and there were lots of other things to render too :) There is in fact a lot you could do with this to create cool "abstract art", it's great fun!
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I spent some time today testing Corona 4 release candidate. I must say I'm in love with this release, can't wait when it's officially available.
Attached the image taken from under the pool of water, testing caustics and learning Grow Fx.
Are volumetrics not supported while using caustics yet? Out of curiosity I rendered version without caustics enabled and volumetric pass looks completely different.
Anyways, I'm amazed how quickly corona handled those!
(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24520.0;attach=105414;image)
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I spent some time today testing Corona 4 release candidate. I must say I'm in love with this release, can't wait when it's officially available.
Attached the image taken from under the pool of water, testing caustics and learning Grow Fx.
Are volumetrics not supported while using caustics yet? Out of curiosity I rendered version without caustics enabled and volumetric pass looks completely different.
Anyways, I'm amazed how quickly corona handled those!
(https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24520.0;attach=105414;image)
The new caustics solver does not work with volumetric media yet. Caustics in volumes will be resolved using the classic path tracing, which will be a loooot slower and probably almost non-visible.
By the way, is the camera placed underwater here? If so, the IOR should be different - you should create a Corona material with refraction level 1 and refraction IOR of 1,33 and use it as the global volume material. :)
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The new caustics solver does not work with volumetric media yet. Caustics in volumes will be resolved using the classic path tracing, which will be a loooot slower and probably almost non-visible.
By the way, is the camera placed underwater here? If so, the IOR should be different - you should create a Corona material with refraction level 1 and refraction IOR of 1,33 and use it as the global volume material. :)
Thanks Maru!
And no camera is not under water, idea behind this was just to have a thin water surface on top of the glass to achieve nice caustics penetrating the well.
But what you proposed sounds cool, I will use your tip and do the underwater version later today ;)
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I'm playing with Caustics and finding lots of fireflys that do not want to go away.
Heres a test with a Hdri map with the enable caustics environment from the render settings
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Found another limitation in caustic, it does not work on hair and fur.
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I'm playing with Caustics and finding lots of fireflys that do not want to go away.
Heres a test with a Hdri map with the enable caustics environment from the render settings
Could you share this scene with us? That would really help us understand the issue.
Found another limitation in caustic, it does not work on hair and fur.
We will definitely look into this!
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I'm playing with Caustics and finding lots of fireflys that do not want to go away.
Heres a test with a Hdri map with the enable caustics environment from the render settings
Could you share this scene with us? That would really help us understand the issue.
Do you still need it? If so I'll cut down the scene, should I PM you a link?
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I'm playing with Caustics and finding lots of fireflys that do not want to go away.
Heres a test with a Hdri map with the enable caustics environment from the render settings
Could you share this scene with us? That would really help us understand the issue.
Do you still need it? If so I'll cut down the scene, should I PM you a link?
Yes, that would be great. We are always interested in user scenes. You can use this private uploader and then let me know which upload method you used and what was the file name: https://corona-renderer.com/upload
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I'm playing with Caustics and finding lots of fireflys that do not want to go away.
Heres a test with a Hdri map with the enable caustics environment from the render settings
Could you share this scene with us? That would really help us understand the issue.
Hi Maru,
Scene uploaded and PM sent, File was to big for the Corona Uploader so I used onedrive.
cheers
Do you still need it? If so I'll cut down the scene, should I PM you a link?
Yes, that would be great. We are always interested in user scenes. You can use this private uploader and then let me know which upload method you used and what was the file name: https://corona-renderer.com/upload
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( internal note: Javadevil persistent splotches: id=370421839 )
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I'm playing with Caustics and finding lots of fireflys that do not want to go away.
Heres a test with a Hdri map with the enable caustics environment from the render settings
The latest daily (27.08.2019) shows huge improvement in this scene. You can get it here: https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/5000570015
Please let us know if you can confirm our findings.
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Hi guys a just for fun test with caustics..the animation quality is a bit crap fo now
link
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Literally in every second scene, caustics cant become clean and remains noisy regardless of the number of passes.
Is it possible to denoise the Cshading_Caustics element with Nvidia denoiser separately and use Corona HQ denoising for other passes? im pretty tired from using photoshop smudge tool every time)
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here is a quick test.
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Literally in every second scene, caustics cant become clean and remains noisy regardless of the number of passes.
Is it possible to denoise the Cshading_Caustics element with Nvidia denoiser separately and use Corona HQ denoising for other passes? im pretty tired from using photoshop smudge tool every time)
Observing the same thing here. Every other scene basically is too tough for the caustic solver to resolve. I'm talking 400+ passes to at least get something usable. :\
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Be sure to send in such scenes where at all possible :)
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The newest 20.09 V5 daily features many caustics fixes and improvements compared to V4. You can check it out here: https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/5000570015
Further fixes/improvements possibly coming.
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The newest 20.09 V5 daily features many caustics fixes and improvements compared to V4. You can check it out here: https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/5000570015
Further fixes/improvements possibly coming.
ofc i use the latest daily builds as always, and there is another strange thing - sometimes i have black square gaps in big caustic spots, i suppose it is because i use a lot of ornatrix hairs in the scenes, but this is just my guess) i will send some test scenes later, when i finish my current projects
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corona 5 vs maxwell 5.
rendertime on both 53min.
consider me impressed!
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Forum,
I know it's not ready for animations - but any tips/trick on how to leverage caustics in animations? I always get massive flickering-- are there any parameters in the advanced caustics settings that help?
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I am not sure what you mean by not ready for animation - Recent Spaces would say otherwise :) https://corona-renderer.com/blog/recent-spaces-test-out-caustics-in-production-scenes/
It would help to see an example of the kind of flickering you mean.
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For animations I would probably suggest throwing more passes at it. Even if it looks fine, let it converge more than a still image would.
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I would suggest rendering caustics as separate pass that's 100perc. denoised. Btw AI denoising (Optix) does pretty cool conversion of caustics because the artifacts it produces sort of just look like more detailed caustics :- ).
I would even go one step further and render it as separate simplified scene (ultra simplified, only to produce caustics in best way and nothing else), and render that with Optix denoising, that way you don't even need many passes at all.
This setup is more laborous but you will get super clean caustics at fraction of time.
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I am not sure what you mean by not ready for animation - Recent Spaces would say otherwise :) https://corona-renderer.com/blog/recent-spaces-test-out-caustics-in-production-scenes/
It would help to see an example of the kind of flickering you mean.
- Thank you for sharing, gave me the confidence this does in fact work well. After looking back at the scene, I made some adjustments (it's caustics coming from condensation on bottles)-- and got much better results. Essentially, the very very small drops were messing everything up so I separated those out and turned off caustics in their material setting.
I would suggest rendering caustics as separate pass that's 100perc. denoised. Btw AI denoising (Optix) does pretty cool conversion of caustics because the artifacts it produces sort of just look like more detailed caustics :- ).
I would even go one step further and render it as separate simplified scene (ultra simplified, only to produce caustics in best way and nothing else), and render that with Optix denoising, that way you don't even need many passes at all.
This setup is more laborous but you will get super clean caustics at fraction of time.
Appreciate the tips here on denoising! As you suggested, I have been rendering them out as a separate simplified scene for just the caustics and layering it in during post, but never used Optix- will give that a go.
Thanks!
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Any news on the trello update or new dailies ? Have you guys decided on the new features yet ?
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Any news on the trello update or new dailies ? Have you guys decided on the new features yet ?
Hi,
Due to recent events the roadmap might take a little longer to be updated..
However a new daily is coming soon :)
Thanks,
Rowan
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Has anyone come across these black blocks in their caustics pass? (40 passes with default denoise)
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never... weird! Does it show up as NaN when you right click on it in VFB?
Render looks neat though by the way.
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There was few reports about black square artifacts in caustics on the forum. I believe the team is investigating and working on the fix.
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Has anyone come across these black blocks in their caustics pass? (40 passes with default denoise)
Hi,
Are you able to send over your scene so we can investigate? Instructions on how to do this are in my signiture.
Thanks,
Rowan
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Has anyone come across these black blocks in their caustics pass? (40 passes with default denoise)
Hi,
Are you able to send over your scene so we can investigate? Instructions on how to do this are in my signiture.
Thanks,
Rowan
I am not allowed to send due to a NDA. Is there any thing you can suggest?
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Hi,
Do these blocks show up as a NaN when you use the pixel probe on it? (right click in the VFB)
Secondly, does this only happen in the caustics pass, or are the visible in the beauty too?
Your scene would really be the best way for us to debug it. Are you able to strip down the scene to a point where the issue still occurs? We are also able to treat the scene confidentially.
Thanks,
Rowan
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The blocks do not show up as NaN, and yes the issue is only in the caustics pass. I have uploaded the scene for you to inspect, thanks!!
1581356575_Caustics-Black-issue.zip
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Hi,
Thanks for the scene. We can reproduce the issue here and I'll send it over to the dev team.
Cheers,
Rowan
(Internal ID=460381847)
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For anyone who might be interested, we just published a big project all about caustics!
https://www.recentspaces.com/lathampools
Testament, I think, to how awesome they work in Corona. We're really excited to see the new changes in caustics and PhoenixFD/foam too, in v6.
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For anyone who might be interested, we just published a big project all about caustics!
https://www.recentspaces.com/lathampools
Testament, I think, to how awesome they work in Corona. We're really excited to see the new changes in caustics and PhoenixFD/foam too, in v6.
Marvelous work, really came out great! I do wonder, if you don't mind me asking, did you have them render in the beauty pass or did you compose it on top linear style?
The thing is, for production scenes where the caustics can get trickier than a single light shining through a glass I sometimes need to do 50000 passes to get it to clear. It's like an exponential curve.
Sorry for the offtopic :P
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For anyone who might be interested, we just published a big project all about caustics!
https://www.recentspaces.com/lathampools
Testament, I think, to how awesome they work in Corona. We're really excited to see the new changes in caustics and PhoenixFD/foam too, in v6.
Marvelous work, really came out great! I do wonder, if you don't mind me asking, did you have them render in the beauty pass or did you compose it on top linear style?
The thing is, for production scenes where the caustics can get trickier than a single light shining through a glass I sometimes need to do 50000 passes to get it to clear. It's like an exponential curve.
Sorry for the offtopic :P
Thanks :) All in the beauty pass. 50000 passes is madness. Probably just 150-200 or so needed for most of these. Maybe less for certain scenes. The key is to use them wisely and in scenes where they're really needed and not going to cause issues elsewhere. Once we have a working include-exclude for caustics (being received) it will make a world of difference.
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For anyone who might be interested, we just published a big project all about caustics!
https://www.recentspaces.com/lathampools
Testament, I think, to how awesome they work in Corona. We're really excited to see the new changes in caustics and PhoenixFD/foam too, in v6.
Amazing images!
Did you tweaked the shaders in some way to optimize the computation/remove unwanted fireflies?
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For anyone who might be interested, we just published a big project all about caustics!
https://www.recentspaces.com/lathampools
Testament, I think, to how awesome they work in Corona. We're really excited to see the new changes in caustics and PhoenixFD/foam too, in v6.
Amazing images!
Did you tweaked the shaders in some way to optimize the computation/remove unwanted fireflies?
Cheers. Not really, no. Most of the work was involved with testing different displacement settings to get the caustics to read how we wanted. i.e. strength, scale, detail level etc.
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For anyone who might be interested, we just published a big project all about caustics!
https://www.recentspaces.com/lathampools
Testament, I think, to how awesome they work in Corona. We're really excited to see the new changes in caustics and PhoenixFD/foam too, in v6.
Marvelous work, really came out great! I do wonder, if you don't mind me asking, did you have them render in the beauty pass or did you compose it on top linear style?
The thing is, for production scenes where the caustics can get trickier than a single light shining through a glass I sometimes need to do 50000 passes to get it to clear. It's like an exponential curve.
Sorry for the offtopic :P
Thanks :) All in the beauty pass. 50000 passes is madness. Probably just 150-200 or so needed for most of these. Maybe less for certain scenes. The key is to use them wisely and in scenes where they're really needed and not going to cause issues elsewhere. Once we have a working include-exclude for caustics (being received) it will make a world of difference.
Huh, interesting! :) In the past I've also used the denoiser in a virtual beauty pass with cranked up settings so as to overlay that image on top where the caustics were at.
Oh and 50000 passes, that was a bit of a caricature of the situation. It was more like a 1000 really :)
Anyho, thanks for the reponse, it seems like it can be done! Thanks for the input!
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So hypnotizing :- )
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and again, do you guys know the reason of that? 300 passes for the third time, i'm pretty tired
(https://i.ibb.co/MSgMFq1/black-squares-crop.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9gpsQR4)
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Best to start a new thread with a bug report, so it can be tracked, responded to etc. Those look like NaNs. When starting the new thread for a bug report (or submitting a ticket), we'd need to know host software, which version of host software, which version of Corona, are those really NaNs (right click on the dark squares in the VFB to see if they give a color value or if they say NaN), the scene would be good too so we can see the setup (can be sent by private uploader). Thanks!
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Has anyone come across these black blocks in their caustics pass? (40 passes with default denoise)
Hi,
It looks like this was caused by some caustics optimisations.
We have a workaround for this now. For the time being you can disable the "Caustics Adaptivity" checkbox in the advanced caustics settings. We will carry on looking into this and try to find a more permenant solution.
This in present in the v6 DB from 2020-06-18 onwards.
Thanks,
Rowan
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P.S. you need to enable the devel / experimental rollout first - https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/12000021288
;)
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Hi
After installing rc5 black pixels are still appearing in the caustics pass. There's no option to disable caustics adaptivity. Any way to fix this?
Thanks
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After installing rc5 black pixels are still appearing in the caustics pass. There's no option to disable caustics adaptivity. Any way to fix this?
You need to enable the development / experimental stuff rollout first (see my post above), and then you will find the adaptivity setting (see screenshot).
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Silly me, I was checking the dev settings in a previous version. I see the checkbox is now visible after installing RC5. I will check if this fixes it.
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Yeah, the devel rollout sometimes gets hidden when re-installing Corona or updating to a newer version.
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Can verify that turning off Caustics Adaptivity does completely solve the problem. But it does indeed add quite a bit of extra render time to certain scenes, doubling it in some cases. Very much hoping this can be solved soon! (Maybe at the same time as a dedicated include/exclude list for Caustics Receive built into the CoronaMaterial....) :)
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This is really good caustics from Otoy:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/OctaneRender/permalink/2048831091960625/
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This is really good caustics from Otoy:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/OctaneRender/permalink/2048831091960625/
I have been thinking for a long time that if Corona remains proudly CPU based, it would be great to shift all sorts of secondary tasks to the GPU, for example, denoiser, caustics, bloom and glare, etc., it would be a really efficient use of resources, I understand how complicated this task is but maybe one day :D
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This is really good caustics from Otoy:
I think that's the understatement of the year. That video is simply mind blowing.
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That is very impressive although it's a super duper simple scene. I'd love to see it applied to a complex scene.
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Hi Guys,
We implemented some changes to the caustics render elements in the last daily build. These should hopefully improve the include/exclude feature we implemented previously.
- Caustics
- Added the following options to caustic render element
- Include direct - includes directly visible caustics in render element
- Include reflected - includes caustics visible through reflection (and then possible following reflection/refractions)
- Include refracted - includes caustics visible through refraction (and then possible following reflection/refractions)
- Include GI - includes caustics visible through GI
I'm interested to hear your feedback on it. You can grab the build from here: https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=33839.msg193564#msg193564
Thanks,
Rowan
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These look really useful! Nice work guys. Will hopefully get a chance to test a DB soon to give these a go.
Cheers,