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Messages - dubcat

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16
Work in Progress/Tests / Re: dubcats secret little hideout
« on: 2019-02-03, 04:42:46 »
Fstorm has so many useful features like that and I wish they were higher on the agenda for corona.

For sure!

It was plugged in, that's a gamma issue for sure, I'll prepare you an explanation of what's going on.

Me and Fluss will be having some direct messaging. Just letting you guys know, so you don't think I'm an asshole that ignore all his posts :P

P.p.p.s. Your LUT is correct, my fault, i don't understand why 167 instead 170... Bah!

Hehe, I feel you! 3dsmax slate and linear/srgb is a real pain in the ass. Software that compile LUTs are also a pain in the ass, there is no standard.
I will be supporting Corona/Vray/fStorm/Octane/Renderman and Blender 2.8 on my site in the end. (Corona is always first priority)
I have high hopes for Blender 2.8, finally I can click on that damn default cube with my left mouse button and delete it. Can't wait to code my procedural mask generator!

17
Work in Progress/Tests / Re: dubcats secret little hideout
« on: 2019-01-31, 02:45:12 »
There is a really strange behavior I cannot explain. After further testing, it looks like it's the 1/IOR part that not working here. On the render result at least as the material preview and the rendered material do not follow the same behavior.

Weird stuff.

This is how it is supposed to look like when you use my setup



And this is how a normal Corona material looks like without the IOR combo. A reflection pass that only a mother can love.



Looks like the exposure inconsistency is related to the gamma 2.2 part in the IOR mask generation.

From the screenshots it looks like you didn't plug the highpassed linear roughness map into the mask slot ? Hard to tell since the screenshot is clipped off.


This material is a perfect example on why we should use cross specular maps as IOR maps https://quixel.com/assets/tbxkajlk

edit:
I overlooked the first response, sorry!

How do you have such knowledge of the technical aspects of lighting and shading?

It all began with Half Life 1 and Sims 1. The first thing I noticed when making textures for these games, was that I could have a static camera and move a light around (at the same distance). Then I could blend multiple photos together with "Lighten", this blending mode will only lighten dark pixels (shadows) and make an "albedo". Back then I didn't know what an albedo was, but it was good enough to import into Wally and make a .wad. I used to hang my cloths up, take a picture and then use the transform tool to turn them into the Sims 1 skin format, good times.

Half Life 2, Doom 3 and Oblivion opened my eyes when it comes to normal map and parallaxing effect. fStrorm still does volume displacement, and it's
 fuc***g awesome. https://fstormrender.ru/manual/displacement. Ever wondered why fStorm users can use displacement on every single plant in their interior, and why the displacement only take like 400mb instead of 200 gazillion terabytes ? This is why.

When Quixel began posting beta versions of roughness, I understood that the next step was to get my hands on some polarizing filter. You can get good quality sheets from https://www.polarization.com/polarshop. I still use sheets from these guys, even though I have to pay almost double the prize in tax, only to import it.

Since then I've been doing SSS, IOR and albedo tests on my own.
When it comes to SSS. Shorter wavelengths (blue) gets scattered more easily than red light. This is why skin looks red when you shine a light thought it, not because of the red blood. Scatter color in render engines should only be monochrome or blue to be physical correct.

You already know my view on glossiness/ior integration. Again, download https://quixel.com/assets/tbxkajlk and have a look at the glossiness map. This is not possible with normal maps.

18
Why is it that Dubcat believed the disable IOR node was helping, but it is being suggested here that it is not making a difference.

You could disable IOR like in Vray a few patches ago. In the latest Corona version you can't, and I have no idea why the devs would go with this decision.

19
Work in Progress/Tests / Re: dubcats secret little hideout
« on: 2019-01-24, 00:55:43 »
Hey Fluss!

"perform mixing in sRGB space" checkbox is unticked. Do you have any insight about that?

I tried 2 multiplied with 0.75 and 1 pluss 0.5 and they seemed to give me 4% IOR. I used the latest Daily Build.
I use the 1/IOR method in my Substance Designer generator since my maps will work in multiple render engines. This proof of concept was based on that generator. For people who are reading this later, feel free to simplify the material with pure float values as Fluss mentioned.

single scattering GGX is kind of a blocker here

When I generate my IOR maps with my Substance Designer generator, it takes into account the global PBR IOR reduction (glossines value). So it only enhances the micro shadows or gem stones in the material. If a 4% flat material has 3% because of the PBR glossiness, it will still be 3% when you use the IOR map. This is something Corona could do behind the scenes, since they know what IOR and Glossiness value we are using in the material.

Finally, as you said, Micro shadowing most of the time overlooked.

For sure!

Bump/Normal to IOR is kind of inferior to "Cross Polarizing" to IOR. Since it is only height based and not specular, (while Cross Polarizing also takes height into account, if we use scanned data), but I would not say no to a height based feature in our current state.

Megascans official specular maps are generated from normal maps, and they kinda have this flat plastic feel that you are talking about (I always associate this feel with Elder Scrolls Oblivion). The next major Quixel Bridge update will include my Roughness to IOR LUT + my latest script for Corona (Metal and Fabric support). Corona is the only engine that support all this stuff, because we have devs that actually listen to user requests.

Here is an example from my generator with roughness and normal map as input, you can see the plastic feeling you get from normal maps (height to IOR).



Also, have you tried to change the exposure between renders with the node graph you provided plugged in the IOR slot? Render->Lower exposure by let's say 2 stops->re-render. I have some weird inconsistent results under different exposures here. Everything is fine when you generated IOR map is unplugged. Let me know if you observe any issue or if it is on my side.

I generate all my maps in Substance Designer, this was only a quick port to 3dsMax as a proof of concept. Maybe Corona Curve map has the same issues as the LUT map had before ? I hope not :( I can do some tests later this week, if you don't want to.

EDIT:
I've added a Photoshop action script that convert normal maps to height info. You can then plug this into the highpass chain in my proof of concept material.

20
Work in Progress/Tests / Re: dubcats secret little hideout
« on: 2019-01-16, 00:25:27 »
Do you have a link to your site perhaps?

Hey!

There are still a couple of pages I need to write before the site goes public.

Here is a little preview of the calibrated paint page.



It's one thing to calibrate swatches to real world LRV, but the most important step is to remove IOR.
IOR really de-saturates colors (If they are middle dark++). Everyone will notice this the first time they cross specular scan something.

LRV = Value in Corona Color Picker and this value is linear. It's just plain stupid that the "sRGB" check box does not affect Value in "Corona Color Picker" yet.



Maybe you could reach out to the team ?

Hey!

Ondra and the dev team have direct contact to me, so if they ever need anything they know I'll be there.

Hey Dubcat, can you elaborate about this? I'm not sure I get it.

Basically you're asking a slot to input cross polarized specular scan in order to modify the microfacets distribution, is that right?

Hey man!

I want to merge Glossiness/Roughness and IOR/Specular into one map (aka Roughness/Glossiness, it will not degrade the current real world scanned material PBR system in anyway, only improve it). Because we are already 50% there. The lower pbr glossiness value we use, the lower the IOR gets, but this is a global change. The glossiness IOR change does not go above or bellow the initial value (If we use asphalt as an example, it does not respect gem stones in the scan, or micro shadows. Micro shadowing is the #1 error that has to be fixed in CGI imho beside Coronas diffuse roughness ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ), but kinda act like reflection level did before pbr. Like when you change the opacity of a layer in Photoshop.

I made a quick and dirty proof of concept material for you guys, to show what I mean.



I don't know if the Corona Curve settings get saved with the material preset, I guess so. But just in case, here is the curve.
We really need X/Y value inputs in Corona Curve!



edit: Fixed a mistake in the material.

I also want to mention that the super blurred texture in the "High Pass" section has to be Corona Bitmap with 9999999442119689768320106496 Blur value. 3dsmax bitmap can't blur this much.
We really need a "gaussian blur" function in one of the Corona maps, I made a request on mantis a year or so ago. This feature is the only thing that is halting my mask generator, because we have to gaussian blur procedural maps.

21
Work in Progress/Tests / Re: dubcats secret little hideout
« on: 2019-01-13, 01:01:45 »
Hey!
I will be backtracking every post.

is it true that the high pass filter + LUT results in about 1.52 IOR?

Quixel cross specular scan real world materials and generate a roughness map based on their internal system. This result in a less contrasted version of the real specular scan with arbitrary values.
When we high pass a texture, we remove all the arbitrary values and are only left with the contrasting values. These values are universal and will work with any megascans scans. My LUT is calibrated to give you 1.5 IOR when a high passed roughness map should give you 1.5 IOR. If you apply the LUT to an asphalt scan, the base asphalt will give you 1.5 IOR. If there are any gem stones, they will get more IOR, and all the micro shadow areas will get less IOR.
In the future, I hope that render engines will fuse "PBR" and "scanned cross specular" into glossiness. Right now PBR glossiness reduce IOR at lower glossiness values, but it's global and ignore micro shadowing.
My ultimate wish right now would be to get Diffuse Roughness in Corona, and then get some kind of futuristic PBR + scanned cross specular interaction into glossiness for micro shadowing. This would not break the current PBR workflow and/or maps, but only improve them.

I could artificially color correct the node to bring the brightness down a bit but it seems contradictory to the whole setup

This would be 1000 times easier if only Corona had specular support like Unreal 4 and fStorm. We don't have to settle on IOR or Specular, we can have both. I can generate a LUT that has 1.4 IOR as base. But let's cross our fingers that Corona will get a dual setup in the future!

The only problem I see with OCIO is that it is only a view transform, so you can't save the image from the VFB with transform applied. This is the annoying way Vray has of doing things.

THIS! I beta tested this stuff last summer and everything was VFB only, everything got ignored when you saved the image. And the ACES profiles did't have the Epic Unreal 4 blue fixes, so blue turned pink.

Instead of using IOR maps to add this detail could you still use maps in the reflection slot remapped with a falloff map to upkeep the pure white edge?? Sorry if its a dumb question have been keeping up with all your posts for a while, love all the information and theories/ideas you provide, keep it up

I've never though about this situation after PBR glossiness got introduced. But when you think about it, this is something that PBR glossiness should handle. Reflection level reduces everything as Photoshop opacity, so it would reduce everything at the same %. While IOR tell the shader how much reflectivity the material should have if you are facing straight on. Corona glossiness is not linear, when you go bellow 0.6. The glossiness values are pretty much exponential from my tests.
Let's hope that I foresee the future and that glossiness and IOR will be one single map that respect micro shadowing.

This test use 0.5 Glossiness.



Im trying to move my workplace onto an ACES workflow and i was wondering if anyone can explain if theres anything that im supposed to be doing with textures?

ACES is something that is applied after the fact. That's the whole points of ACES. You can take a photo with a shity camera, render a linear CGI scene, record some video on your phone. It doesn't matter what color space or format you use, everything is converted into ACES, and everything will work in harmony when you composite.

Also @Dubcat are you still working on the paint LRV LUT? Id be interested to see a step by step tutorial!

I have a whole page dedicated to factory paints on my new site (still in beta), all the values already have IOR 1.5 factored into the value. You only have to sample the value with Corona Picker. If only I had this page 15 years ago!

edit: fixed 3 typos, I bet there are more!

22
Work in Progress/Tests / Re: dubcats secret little hideout
« on: 2018-10-28, 05:53:08 »
Hey!

I've blocked a few web sites this month so I don't have an excuse to procrastinate. I haven't read through the pages since my last post. I see the last post has a question for me. I just want you guys to know that I'm not ignoring you. I will respond when my "official" block is over. I just had to make this post on my phone.

I've been pushing for linear display value for "Value" since Corona Color Picker got introduced. Every time I talk to the Corona team, it seems that this request gets confused with something else, and I honestly don't understand what they confuse it for. I see the RC is almost ready and it results in me clenching to my pillow at night, crying inside.

Every studio/person out there that deal with real world reflectance values, knows that we need linear display for "Value".

This long time "bug" / feature request has now turned into a meme



This is the best way I can describe the current problem.



If you have to deal with real world paint values and scanned values, please let your voice be heard so we can get this quality of life feature implemented.

23
Work in Progress/Tests / Re: dubcats secret little hideout
« on: 2018-09-28, 02:42:27 »
Bertrand Benoit aka BBB3viz released an awesome set of images lately, you can check them out at https://bertrand-benoit.com/blog/classical.
People have asked him what wall paint value he used, and he responded 180 RGB.
This answer has then turned into another questing. What does he mean about 180 RGB, does it mean sRGB or does it actually mean RGB.

180 sRGB is 46.5% reflectance and 180 RGB is 70.6%.
So he is talking about real linear RGB values. 70.6% is still dark for white values, but this is the common average value for white paint.

In Scandinavia we have a standard white color for doors, windows etc. And that color is called Eggwhite, you can find it here https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Lab_values.asp?cRange=RAL%20Classic&cRef=RAL%209010&cDescription=Pure%20white. This paint is 84%. If we remove 1.5 IOR from the scanned value, we get this albedo value.



edit:
Made the image 500px wide.

24
Work in Progress/Tests / Re: dubcats secret little hideout
« on: 2018-09-28, 01:58:27 »
What command did you use for the dcraw dump (Especially for the color option)?

Hey!

-v -H 0 -o 1 -q 3 -4 -T

In this specific case, since I shoot all the lights at 6500 (since our CG life is depending on this setting), the exif is already 6500.
So these settings give me the same result

-v -w -H 0 -o 1 -q 3 -4 -T

I haven't had any spare time since last time.
The next thing on my schedule is to 3D scan the analysis scene, and replace the rough scan geo with proper 3D models.
After that I will material scan the rough black fabric that my analysis scene is covered with.
When those two variables are finally taken care off, we can nail the raw image variables.
Everything will be open source as always :)

25
Work in Progress/Tests / Re: dubcats secret little hideout
« on: 2018-09-26, 01:26:52 »
Did you try to make a profile without that HSV inheritance to see how it compares to the capture one pro linear response?

Hey!

If we disable HSV in Fusion/3D LUT Creator it looks like this, it matches Capture One closer.



Even though the current tests are spot on intensity wise, maybe Capture One or no HSV are more spot on when it comes to colors. I've noticed that the current light temperature looks really greenish. Even though both are loaded as 6500k. Thanks for the head up, will try both on my 18% sphere!

26
Work in Progress/Tests / Re: dubcats secret little hideout
« on: 2018-09-25, 23:23:12 »
Here is my attempt.

Hey Fluss, thanks for the tests. Really appreciate it!

---------------------------------------------------------------

I've been drained for energy all month, but I really want to get this analysis scene up and running as fast as possible.

A few days ago I generated a custom Linear Camera Profile for Lightroom. Camera Profiles contain 3 main settings, I kept Adobes raw sensor color conversion, but removed the contrast curve.
I wanted to compare my new Lightroom camera profile against DcRaw and Capture One.

I've read a lot of great things about Capture One, so if anyone know why Capture One is so off compared to the others, let me know. Because I would love to use Capture One as my tethering program. Capture One is using the Linear Response Curve setting.



I loaded my Ikea 60W light dump into Corona, changed to orthographic view, and matched a Corona Light to the actual captured light bulb dimensions.
I matched the Corona Light intensity against the HDR values using "Default: W/(sr.m^2)".
When I changed the light settings to "Lumen (lm)", the intensity was 760 Lumen.
A 60W bulb is rated around 800 Lumen, the bulb I was using has some kind of coating. So these test results are pretty sport on.




27
Work in Progress/Tests / Re: dubcats secret little hideout
« on: 2018-09-23, 02:49:39 »
Here's the first puzzle, it's 14 cm in diameter.

edit with some facts:
This is an Ikea ARÖD lamp with a 60W bulb (Keep tuned for a 3D model, and scanned scene).
The HDR is calibrated to real world values.
This 60W lamp is almost 33+, makes you second guess those 16+ HDRIs with a sun.
This HDR dump has never touched Photoshop.

This initial scan already give us a lot of camera bloom information.

This is how the original capture look at 22 fstop, 30 sec exposure, 100 ISO.



Hit 8 in 3dsMax "Environment and Effects", drag the HDR into "Environment Map", change "Environ Map" inside the bitmap to Screen. Change your Render size to 5184x3456. Go into "Scene" and change your "Pass Limit" to 1. Change your exposure settings to 22 fstop, 30 sec exposure, 100 ISO. Hit render. Go crazy and try to match the real world bloom. The background is black in real life.


28
Work in Progress/Tests / Re: dubcats secret little hideout
« on: 2018-09-16, 03:54:44 »
Thank you Dubcat for providing this LUT. What do you mean by iPad "7.4"?

Is it sRGB by the way?

Hey!

Apple iPad Pro 10.5-Inch from 2017. All the current dumps are sRGB (not log) made to work inside Corona VFB.

sorry for bothering you with the issue that i shoud've be able to solve by myself :]

Hey man, any time. I was curious myself.

---------------------------

I finally have all the materials for my calibrated test room. I will use this scene as a real world example to push Corona features further.


29
Work in Progress/Tests / Re: dubcats secret little hideout
« on: 2018-09-07, 03:49:02 »
For example 03-29_Sunset from noemotion if you wouldn´t mind :) thanks a lot

Hey!

It's really hard to calibrate these HDRis when you don't have a real world reference. Archviz is really lacking behind when it comes to greycard and chrome sphere "light direction" reference, but one day there will be a store that provide these maps publicly. And it will change everything.

The best thing you can calibrate against is Corona Sun 64 Size at the sun angle, this size will not cover the shadow diffusion. And we know that shadow diffusion is not the same as EV. Since the HDRi source have not given us any real world reference, it is just a guessing game at this point.

Hi dubcat! The link is this: https://www.cgtrader.com/free-3d-models/exterior/landscape/8k-mountain-rock-scan-a

Hey!

I have done a few tests, and it all comes down to bad displacement map.
You can generate a proper map inside zBrush like this:
Go into the "Preferences" tab, and select "Transpose Units". Make sure it's calibrated to 1 scale cm.
Load the low res unwrapped mesh in zBrush, and then load the high res mesh as a sub tool.
Divide the low-res mesh as much as you can for good measure. Select the low res mesh in "Subtool", but deactivate the eye. Activate the eye on the high res mesh, if it's not already activated.
Click on "Project" and increase "Dist" to 1, hit ProjectAll.
Go down to "Displacement Map" and activate 32 bit.
Export the map.

Is there any chance to have an iPad Air LUT?

Hey!

The closet physical thing I can get my hands on is Apple iPad 7.4. I have limited knowledge of Apple, as I'm an Android user. Maybe they have kept the same curve on all their devices. If you are the person capturing the photos on iPhone, I would do a google search on "ipad capture raw" and capture the photos as raw. Most modern phones/pads have raw support, but not officially.

30
Off-Topic / Re: catnip sessions
« on: 2018-08-29, 01:16:29 »
catnip sessions (Top August 2018)

ฅ^•ﻌ•^ฅ meow purr purr.



01. Matisse & Sadko - Saga (dubcat intro mix)
02. KhoMha - Aether
03. Omnia - CYBERPUNK (dubcat Big Room Reconstruction)
04. Jam El Mar & Adina Butar - Right In The Night (dubcat Big Room Reconstruction)
05. Davey Asprey - Azile (dubcat Big Room Reconstruction)
06. Dave Neven & Ellie White - Try For Me (dubcat Big Room Reconstruction) [Tune of the Month]
07. Ben Gold & Allen Watts - Strike As One (dubcat Big Room Reconstruction)
08. Ben Gold & Omnia - The Conquest (dubcat Big Room Reconstruction)
09. Rank 1 - LED There Be Light (Cosmic Gate Remix) (dubcat Big Room Reconstruction)
11. Ran-D - Hurricane

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