Chaos Corona Forum
General Category => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Alexp on 2015-06-11, 13:06:15
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Its ok 50$ for this 3 images?
Im lost in prizes and I would like to talk about it. Its ok?
Best regards
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Images as "images"? Or whole scene as a complete 3d visualization project?
I would charge around 600 euros for a visualization like that one - but I guess it might depend on the country where you do your work. 50$ is definitely a joke for that kind of work.
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Its the prize for all work. The client sent the 3ds, maybe made in archicad or revit, and you need to do all the rest.
Ah, and the work its for Canada ...
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Its the prize for all work. The client sent the 3ds, maybe made in archicad or revit, and you need to do all the rest.
Ah, and the work its for Canada ...
Considering the circumstances, 50$ is way way too little - isn't 50$ in Canada like pocket money? I would go with 500$ in that case.
"At the end of last year, as of December 2014, the average wage for Canadian employees was $943 a week – or just over $49,000 a year. This marks a 2% increase over the same period a year earlier."
I guess 500$ is absolutely reasonable after reading that. But this is only my opinion - feel free to ask others as well.
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Thanks for your reply, I realy apreciate your help.
All are invited to tell sugestions.
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It is simple - somebody wants to charge the client 600$, but is willing to give you only 50$ for the actual work and make 550$ profit ;)
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^true that
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the average wage for Canadian employees was $943 a week – or just over $49,000 a year.
50K CAD is 40K US dollars. That is still a lot, I didn't know Canadian wage is so much higher than US. But the OP's client is canadian right ? Not OP himself ?
Regarding prices: It's always as much as client will agree to. Always...ask maximum you can get away with.
Price per visual depends on project scope, work length, type of visual, your brand, your client's brand,etc... but is between 600 to 6000 dollars in current market. Per visual.
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I would estimate $50 CAD = 1 hours work local rate.
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This is a real project and real prize, its not fake or joke.
I open this thread to know the margin of one work like this in diferent countries. For sure 50$ its very low.
And I upload this images like a start point to speak. I know, the images ar not "amazing awards" but I think its a normal-daily-work and the best example for this kind of discusion.
@Ondra: XD, its good business. but its not the situation. The client is a company of construction, its not a 3th in between.
@GestaltDesign: nice to see 50$ per hour
@Juraj_Talcik: 600$ at start point its a good begining for USA market. Maybe in Canadian market can be 550$ ... Anyway thanks
And why about European market?
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nevermind
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@Ondra: XD, its good business. but its not the situation. The client is a company of construction, its not a 3th in between.
Well somebody somewhere is hoping to get 500$ worth of value for 50$, does not matter if they re-sell or use it directly in their business.
Juraj: there is no such sensible thing as "average wage" in US - the disparity is just so huge, that averaging extremes does not make sense.
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@Juraj_Talcik: 600$ at start point its a good begining for USA market. Maybe in Canadian market can be 550$ ... Anyway thanks
The Canadian Dollar is not all that strong at the moment. The current exchange from 600 US Dollars as a starting point would be 740 Canadian Dollars.
For a Canadian company to pay only $50 for these images would be a complete offence to your skill.
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Thanks to all for your support, I apreciate so much
@burnin: Very clear. thanks so much
@Ondra: totaly agree with you
@Ricky Johnson: "For a Canadian company to pay only $50 for these images would be a complete offence to your skill."
Thanks for this coment, You are totaly right.
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@Ondra: XD, its good business. but its not the situation. The client is a company of construction, its not a 3th in between.
Juraj: there is no such sensible thing as "average wage" in US - the disparity is just so huge, that averaging extremes does not make sense.
Let's swap to median.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States
I know there is a disparity but it still appears "average" Canadian is on it better than I thought :- ).
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Lowest I charge for an image/render with modeling, lighting, texturing & post-production is $500 (American).
If someone were providing me a 3D model where all I had to do was lighting, texturing and post, I'd probably start my rate at $350/image, depending on the size of the project.
For $50, I'd laugh in the client's face and walk away.
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The average 3D artist in Canada makes 47K excluding bonus ect, and becomes about 63k with several years exp. If you want to make 940 images a year at $50 go ahead. Where do you work from? India?
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For $50, I'd laugh in the client's face and walk away.
I never join in the high-end visualization market and my work still lower than 500$ standard, but for 50$ I think I'm in the same way with Steyin :)
but for you all guys, in architecture / interior, I'd like to know about some another standard of your work that usually asked or acceptable by the client? i think it will take effect to how your work's value.
i mean its like; resolution & ppi, image filetype, cad included (construction, shop drawing), work timing, softcopy & hardcopy, etc.
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For $50, I'd laugh in the client's face and walk away.
I never join in the high-end visualization market and my work still lower than 500$ standard, but for 50$ I think I'm in the same way with Steyin :)
but for you all guys, in architecture / interior, I'd like to know about some another standard of your work that usually asked or acceptable by the client? i think it will take effect to how your work's value.
i mean its like; resolution & ppi, image filetype, cad included (construction, shop drawing), work timing, softcopy & hardcopy, etc.
The only thing that really affects my pricing is the time schedule, size of the project and level of design. If its a small project and the client wants realistic looking renders, then as I mentioned my base is $500. If the renders are to be more conceptual, therefore requiring less time on materials and/or modeling (if its more of a massing than detailed architecture), then I charge less. If its a large project that requires more time for modeling and texturing than I charge more.
Only a few variables I concern pricing over really. I also charge a rush fee if the client all of a sudden needs the images at a quicker date.
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OP where do you live and what software do you use?
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hi guys.
this project I did for Russia, and I'm wondering how much would cost in Europe? model of house was in archicad, so i remodeled in max
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php/topic,10434.0.html
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Depends on the client and on the company that is doing it - but as a freelancer I guess it would be around 1.5k € here in Croatia. Not sure about other countries, most likely even more.
EDIT: This was for the whole project, not per image.
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I would agree with that price.
Break it down, on average daily rates .for example.........
Some clients get charged more, some get charged less.
Even if you are given the model.
Modeling from scratch 2 days............€500
Textures and lighting 1 day.............€250
Rendering and PP 1 day.............€250
Comments and finished items issued....1 day ............€250
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Total 5 days ......... €1,250
Add overheads eg software subscriptions , max corona, ps all add up ...........a % of the over all costs.
and your living expenses............another percentage.
So can I say , as mentioned before.....ask for as much as you think you can get, your not being greedy, you work is good enough, and from the images posted, there is not way the Revit or archicad models give the correct individual items like the american style fridge, and presses.
You have worked hard and long to get were you are, now charge for it , it's your career, be proud of it and make sure they know your proud of what you do.
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and ... for example. If you need to build a big work with a lot of diferent stuff. A big building with 10 diferent topology rooms, gym, cafe-bars ... and all of this has 10.000m²
1- Its posible to put the price for square meters?
2- Whats the common price?
Thanks
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1- Its posible to put the price for square meters?
No, because that is just as absurd as pricing out for amount of pixels. Content is important.
What matters is, what you are going to show, and how long it will take you to create what you will need to show.
Big building with 10 different rooms ?
That's 11 scenes maybe, one big exterior, 10 different interiors. 1x E + 10x I = Some kind of sum.
Those 11 scenes can maybe become 25 pictures ? 5 exteriors, and 20 interiors, but with lot of repeated elements (it's still just 11 scenes). So maybe 5x (fraction of E) + 20x (fraction of I) = Another kind of sum.
etc,etc..
Pricing needs to be logical for both you and your client. It needs to instantly appear rational to be accepted.
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One must first understand what work belongs into visualizers/illustrators domain. No architecture, no design, no planning, no color studies, lighting plans... all this is extra work for an illustrator which should be extra paid (and should only be done if an illustrator is also architectural or in any other way skilled professional for this kind of work).
I too agree... around 250€ is a common price for a quality work in a day (9h including lunch).
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50$ for this one ? Are you kidding me ?
Are you doing this for living or for spreading peace n love on clients ?
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Greetings,
This topic seems complex always because of the reasons mentioned from other users here (time,scale,level of detail...)
but also as a result of difference in standards of different countries. That reasons the 50$ question because it's a standard on some countries,
whereas in most of the Europe and North America it is considered a joke.
In a survey that i read in 2014 i think, it came out that only 10% worked for less than 600 € (around 670$) for a view/render.
I hope that helps a little.
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This topic seems complex always because of the reasons mentioned from other users here (time,scale,level of detail...)
but also as a result of difference in standards of different countries. That reasons the 50$ question because it's a standard on some countries,
I have no any idea which country has that $50 standard, but in my country for very low resolution and conceptual quality I think it is reasonable price for 1 image not 3.
and its already explained that the job is for Canada.
Its the prize for all work. The client sent the 3ds, maybe made in archicad or revit, and you need to do all the rest.
Ah, and the work its for Canada ...
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Yeah i know it's for Canada, I only pointed that because OP wasn't from Canada he didn't know what the standard's were there.
And the 50$ fee was really low but that's why he asked in first place i guess.
As for which country has such low standards I don't know precisely, but we have a general idea. After all my country has some low standards too.
Have a great day.
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Its ok 50$ for this 3 images?
Im lost in prizes and I would like to talk about it. Its ok?
The key question is how much time it took you to produce those images...
(the quality of the images is only relative/secondary as long as the client is happy; the images you posted look good enough; with the level of detail)
Add the overheads; cost of software subscriptions / electricity bill / social security ...you get the idea :O
I really doubt you can get by with only 50$ for this work (with paying all the licenses etc)
Maybe if you managed to pull this off in a couple of hours with freeware/freebies, which would be a commendable feat :P
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I personally think that the prices here are under estimated in general. In fact, everything depends from the overall quality of each production but in general each of us should always consider:
- Taxes
- SW investments
- HW investments
- Bills
- Rent
- Expences
- Living
- Growing up economically
If I have to: Model that scene, texture it, lighting it, choose the correct objects to put in, choose the visuals, produce the test images, do some changes, produce the high res images, colour correction process... Well, 500$ or 500 Euros is way to low. That's my personal opinion and I can't even think about giving my work as a gift to the client. Here in Paris one image could cost 2.500 / 3.000 Euros for an arch. firm.
Anyway, each of us has his own prices and quality at the end and depends on the product and result you are selling out there.
Thanks,
Dionysios -
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I personally think that the prices here are under estimated in general. In fact, everything depends from the overall quality of each production but in general each of us should always consider:
- Taxes
- SW investments
- HW investments
- Bills
- Rent
- Expences
- Living
- Growing up economically
If I have to: Model that scene, texture it, lighting it, choose the correct objects to put in, choose the visuals, produce the test images, do some changes, produce the high res images, colour correction process... Well, 500$ or 500 Euros is way to low. That's my personal opinion and I can't even think about giving my work as a gift to the client. Here in Paris one image could cost 2.500 / 3.000 Euros for an arch. firm.
Anyway, each of us has his own prices and quality at the end and depends on the product and result you are selling out there.
Thanks,
Dionysios -
This is well put. There are two good points here:
-One about estimating the realistic costs of being a freelancer/self-employed (not just trying to scrape together an equivalent to a full time employee in a similar profession.
-The other about realising the value in the work 3D artists produce. I think even beyond your own assessment of your living costs.
Assuming we're talking about archviz, then you're an asset towards either private investment in property or investment of public money in public buildings. Neither are cheap.
$50 or even $500 is completely out of place within the scope of such projects.
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Correct! :)
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I personally think that the prices here are under estimated in general. In fact, everything depends from the overall quality of each production but in general each of us should always consider:
- Taxes
- SW investments
- HW investments
- Bills
- Rent
- Expences
- Living
- Growing up economically
If I have to: Model that scene, texture it, lighting it, choose the correct objects to put in, choose the visuals, produce the test images, do some changes, produce the high res images, colour correction process... Well, 500$ or 500 Euros is way to low. That's my personal opinion and I can't even think about giving my work as a gift to the client. Here in Paris one image could cost 2.500 / 3.000 Euros for an arch. firm.
Anyway, each of us has his own prices and quality at the end and depends on the product and result you are selling out there.
Thanks,
Dionysios -
This is well put. There are two good points here:
-One about estimating the realistic costs of being a freelancer/self-employed (not just trying to scrape together an equivalent to a full time employee in a similar profession.
-The other about realising the value in the work 3D artists produce. I think even beyond your own assessment of your living costs.
Assuming we're talking about archviz, then you're an asset towards either private investment in property or investment of public money in public buildings. Neither are cheap.
$50 or even $500 is completely out of place within the scope of such projects.
+1
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In archviz most renders are comissioned for competitions or client presentations.
In competitions there is a limited budget, which is reflected in the price offices/clients are willing to pay for a render.
(no-one working on archi competitions is well paid; consultants often work for free (with promise of prospective work), architects and interns are underpaid and work around the clock.)
For the time spent the 3d guys is better paid than architect, i.e. for ~1500 you can pay a junior architect or 3 interns for a month .
As for the visualisation itself, for competitions the overall atmosphere/impression of the image is more imporant. There is limited time and many changes until the last moment.
If you look at companies specialising in competition archviz, they are not the same people doing catalogue visualisations for developers' publications.
3d rendering has become much more approachable, even thanks to renderer like Corona (with great support, resources and community for learning), virtually every design/archi student is learning rendering today.
For students and enthusiasts it is a bonus if they get anything for an image.
For startups it is understandable they cut prices to get new clients on board.
Image quality is usually good enough and hence higher cost isn't justified for most purposes.
It mimics photography industry after the democratization of digital reflex cameras, where everyone has become a photographer :-)
Demand for high-end renders still exist, but it is a different market to most archviz today.
At the end of the day, architecture/construction is not about CG skill, the render is not the end product, but a means of communication. Renders are not comissioned as work of art.
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I personally think that the prices here are under estimated in general. In fact, everything depends from the overall quality of each production but in general each of us should always consider:
- Taxes
- SW investments
- HW investments
- Bills
- Rent
- Expences
- Living
- Growing up economically
If I have to: Model that scene, texture it, lighting it, choose the correct objects to put in, choose the visuals, produce the test images, do some changes, produce the high res images, colour correction process... Well, 500$ or 500 Euros is way to low. That's my personal opinion and I can't even think about giving my work as a gift to the client. Here in Paris one image could cost 2.500 / 3.000 Euros for an arch. firm.
Anyway, each of us has his own prices and quality at the end and depends on the product and result you are selling out there.
Thanks,
Dionysios -
This is well put. There are two good points here:
-One about estimating the realistic costs of being a freelancer/self-employed (not just trying to scrape together an equivalent to a full time employee in a similar profession.
-The other about realising the value in the work 3D artists produce. I think even beyond your own assessment of your living costs.
Assuming we're talking about archviz, then you're an asset towards either private investment in property or investment of public money in public buildings. Neither are cheap.
$50 or even $500 is completely out of place within the scope of such projects.
+1
+1
And dont forget the knowledge. All of us have paid or invested a lot of time and enfort to learn.
Im totaly agree with you.
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Of course, actually knowledge and technique at the end make the final price difference!
Dionysios