Author Topic: Tonemapping - Plz Halp  (Read 56974 times)

2020-08-19, 23:11:23
Reply #375

cjwidd

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What is the order of operations here, because I thought about this as well(?) Is a log transform being applied to the Filmic High Contrast LUT (what does that result in?) and then the image?

2020-10-03, 07:41:31
Reply #376

cjwidd

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Obviously this was a major point of discussion earlier in the thread, but having not reviewed many Fstorm renders at the time, I felt a little left out.

That being said, I cannot deny that on average the Fstorm renders I see just look more photographic. That's not meant to be a referendum on Corona Renderer, or FStorm, or meant to imply one renderer is superior, etc. - it's just an observation. I follow the FStorm FB group and the Corona Renderer gallery / Instagram on a more or less daily basis.

It's possible that observation is a sort of sampling bias with more users rendering with Corona Renderer than FStorm and maybe there is a concentration of expertise in the FStorm user base because more expertise is required to operate a renderer with less documentation, tutorials, outreach, etc.

The particular look of the two renderers is somehow noticeable though.
« Last Edit: 2020-11-26, 20:57:40 by cjwidd »

2020-11-26, 15:20:48
Reply #377

James Vella

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I thought id give this a shot with the new Vray5 workflow, following the manual:

- From Render Setup > Settings > Color management choose ACEScg
- Auto RGB primaries for VRayBitmap enabled
- textures converted to VrayBitmap
- diffuse images renamed with suffix _srgb.jpg
- gloss/normal maps renamed with suffix _lin_srgb.jpg

All text below this point is revised in the next post

VFB:

- Display Correction > None
- Create Layer > Filmic tonemap
- Tone mapping space > ACEScg
- log space enabled

Concepts:
- My thinking behind this experiment is similar to our previous conversation, trying to emulate very low light to high light without burn on either end.
- The reasoning behind working with None instead of sRGB in Display Correction is I want to work scene-linear instead of display-linear.
- I chose to work in log space since I noticed a little more breathing room with the tone mapping sliders, I dont have a technical explanation for this maybe someone else has a better understanding.
- I wanted to keep this experiment as simple as possible so I pushed the sliders until I could increase the shoulder strength to increase exposure and then work backwards to increase the contrast/gamma and experiment with the white point.
- The second last image is just adjusting the sliders to reach a happy medium.
- the last image is over exposure, what I would expect to see in lightroom (or on page 17 of this thread).

Interesting to hear your thoughts or if I missed something.
« Last Edit: 2020-11-27, 12:04:34 by James Vella »

2020-11-27, 11:42:59
Reply #378

James Vella

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hmm it looks like I have compared apples to oranges. I revisited this with a different train of thought and I think this is heading in the right direction. You can ignore everything I said after "VFB:" in my previous post.

After reading the Maya manual on this it mentions you can use the filmic / AMPAS tonemap in replacement of the OCIO for this workflow. This didnt work for me but I found by removing the filmic tonemapping and replacing it with the OCIO for the transform I got the results I was expecting. This is only adjusting exposure stops.

You can download the scene here and investigate (3dsmax 2019): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Oauy92VyHPNiGbeRhVHEMV1HR2ChyDm3/view?usp=sharing

edit:
artistically speaking you could do either or both depending on your pipeline. Comparing this to the original Corona renders there seems to be far less burnout in over exposed areas in my opinion.
« Last Edit: 2020-11-27, 12:15:46 by James Vella »

2020-11-28, 00:32:57
Reply #379

cjwidd

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It seems like until we get true color management Jorgen Herland's approach is the simplest, most predictable(?)

2020-12-03, 23:05:31
Reply #380

Jpjapers

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Just curious, what are your main reasons for pursuing this pipeline? Is it to keep up with industry movement or are you finding much benefit from it in your CG pipeline?
I think over the past 5/6 years ive read similar threads and its been interesting seeing how the discussion changes and seeing how much better its understood each time but i think alot of people, myself included, would love to know how following colour managed workflow in this way actually helps you day-to-day.

2020-12-04, 11:10:36
Reply #381

hldemi

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Just curious, what are your main reasons for pursuing this pipeline? Is it to keep up with industry movement or are you finding much benefit from it in your CG pipeline?
I think over the past 5/6 years ive read similar threads and its been interesting seeing how the discussion changes and seeing how much better its understood each time but i think alot of people, myself included, would love to know how following colour managed workflow in this way actually helps you day-to-day.

I dont get why this topic now when tonemapping is being redone in Corona roadmap.
What would actually help is to include the community to test and intervene this development so that the new tonemapping is really what we need.

2020-12-04, 18:43:06
Reply #382

agentdark45

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Just curious, what are your main reasons for pursuing this pipeline? Is it to keep up with industry movement or are you finding much benefit from it in your CG pipeline?
I think over the past 5/6 years ive read similar threads and its been interesting seeing how the discussion changes and seeing how much better its understood each time but i think alot of people, myself included, would love to know how following colour managed workflow in this way actually helps you day-to-day.

Ultimately for me it's to get better and more photographic renders "out of the box". Less fiddling with VFB sliders and cursing over blowouts, black crush, murky greys, wonky contrast/saturation, scrolling through LUTs e.t.c.
Vray who?

2020-12-11, 14:18:16
Reply #383

Jpjapers

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Just curious, what are your main reasons for pursuing this pipeline? Is it to keep up with industry movement or are you finding much benefit from it in your CG pipeline?
I think over the past 5/6 years ive read similar threads and its been interesting seeing how the discussion changes and seeing how much better its understood each time but i think alot of people, myself included, would love to know how following colour managed workflow in this way actually helps you day-to-day.

Ultimately for me it's to get better and more photographic renders "out of the box". Less fiddling with VFB sliders and cursing over blowouts, black crush, murky greys, wonky contrast/saturation, scrolling through LUTs e.t.c.

Thanks thats what i assumed :)

2020-12-17, 00:49:26
Reply #384

DustinMoore

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Even in this image, obviously with a lot of detail, I can tell that boat is fake.


This is because thew artist didnt use the materials correctly. Tiling is wrong, reflection levels and sheer wrong material for the wood along the rim.

2021-01-21, 20:23:14
Reply #385

lupaz

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Got this image from the Fstorm facebook group.
I thought posting it here.


2021-01-21, 21:59:46
Reply #386

Juraj

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Great comparison. Would be nice to see it also with Filmic from latest Vray 5 VFB2.
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2021-01-21, 22:33:00
Reply #387

cjwidd

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Got this image from the Fstorm facebook group.
I thought posting it here.
I follow the Fstorm FB group as well, but haven't seen this image. When was it posted?

2021-01-22, 11:25:53
Reply #388

Nejc Kilar

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Got this image from the Fstorm facebook group.
I thought posting it here.
I follow the Fstorm FB group as well, but haven't seen this image. When was it posted?

I think it was quite a while back. Like a couple of months at least. :\

2021-01-22, 16:13:15
Reply #389

lupaz

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Got this image from the Fstorm facebook group.
I thought posting it here.
I follow the Fstorm FB group as well, but haven't seen this image. When was it posted?

Sorry. I can't find it now.
I think it was Andrey's.

EDIT: Found it, in one of the comments in the thread below.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FStormGroup/permalink/2456112348018502/