Author Topic: To share or not to share...  (Read 13866 times)

2014-10-16, 00:22:10

londonvisuals

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very amazing work..btw which HDRI you used with these images, is it peter Guthrie's. also did you increase contrast value greather than 1 in corona renderer under Exposure and color mapping tab.

How did you achieve such amazing contrast..can you show any raw render to us?

Thanks..

Out of curiosity - have you developed some sort of automated forum script to ask this question in every topic ?

Edited name of topic - romullus
« Last Edit: 2014-10-16, 23:37:09 by romullus »

2014-10-16, 09:33:04
Reply #1

Image Box Studios

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very amazing work..btw which HDRI you used with these images, is it peter Guthrie's. also did you increase contrast value greather than 1 in corona renderer under Exposure and color mapping tab.

How did you achieve such amazing contrast..can you show any raw render to us?

Thanks..

Out of curiosity - have you developed some sort of automated forum script to ask this question in every topic ?

Hi londonvisuals....why you joined this forum. i think you should not put such type of questions to others..If we like any person's work and ask those person's rendering workflows everytime, what is the problem in it and that doesn't mean we can not place questions on forum everytime.

It is every member's right to place questions on forum. Every person's rendering workflow is different so that's why we ask every time. and please it is my humble request to you please do not post such type of words for others.

Thanks.



2014-10-16, 11:55:50
Reply #2

londonvisuals

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very amazing work..btw which HDRI you used with these images, is it peter Guthrie's. also did you increase contrast value greather than 1 in corona renderer under Exposure and color mapping tab.

How did you achieve such amazing contrast..can you show any raw render to us?

Thanks..


Out of curiosity - have you developed some sort of automated forum script to ask this question in every topic ?

Hi londonvisuals....why you joined this forum. i think you should not put such type of questions to others..If we like any person's work and ask those person's rendering workflows everytime, what is the problem in it and that doesn't mean we can not place questions on forum everytime.

It is every member's right to place questions on forum. Every person's rendering workflow is different so that's why we ask every time. and please it is my humble request to you please do not post such type of words for others.

Thanks.








I joined this forum because I wanted to and because I could. You reserve the right to ask about the workflow, I can ask about your asking - which is a little over the top to say the least imho, personaly I'd qualifiy it equally with all those "grate works! send me scene tnx" type requests (you even started almost the same :D).

He told you he used HDRI map, should he also include a direct link so you can buy it :D ?

I am simply super surprised because you have very pleasing works in your portfolio, yet you keep asking the same basic questions all the time just like you had no clue how to achieve certain looks, and I am pretty sure you do...
It is simply tiring to the same questions asked by the same people in every topic which contains some good images - and this one certainly does.

And sorry to say this man, but in generall most of the people asking those kind of questions and sending "send scene" requests are from your region of the world which is super crowded, they enhance their own skill with almost no effort on their own side (not saying you also do this), and because there are so many people there - they lower the global prices - so yeah, I have the damn right to ask those questions, because it directly affects me and my position in this industry, as it affects the position of many others who ask less, and work more on their own.

And yeah yeah,  I know i can't put everyone into the same basket but those are simply facts. Maybe one in a ten "send scene" requests comes from Europe/ America, rest comes from Asia, Africa.

I am confident that many people here would agree, but then others would start to threaten them with all the bad reputation they get only because they express their own opinion :D, I simply have the courage to step up, not sure if others do or are willing to get criticised only because they say what they think.

I recommned reading this topic http://archinect.com/forum/thread/59425174/outsourcing-design-visualisation-work

One of the users clearly states: "don't know the name of firms off my mind but the few corporate firms I've interned for (Gensler, KPF etc) used to outsource many of their visualisation work to China.  These Chinese firm did a good job for almost next to nothing"

-next to nothing-

So to sum up how I see it - gaining knowledge takes time. Time is money. I see a disturbing trend of giving real kowledge for free - ergo you people give someone your money, future money.
I dont mind giving DIRECTIONS, but people (in generall) please stop serving your knowledge on a silver dish to others.
Stop being Mother Teresa of CG and open your eyes.

I am curious what others think about this.....

2014-10-16, 12:05:04
Reply #3

Ondra

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londonvisuals: while I am split on the topic of answering uninspired repetitive questions (it is everyone's own business, either they choose to answer or not, and nobody should denounce them for it, BUT answering those questions leads to even more useless questions being asked)... I can read the end of your post in only one way: "I am only mediocre and I am planning on staying mediocre, so I feel my business is threatened by people who are just now learning the stuff"
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2014-10-16, 12:15:07
Reply #4

tomislavn

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I am all out for helping people out with what I know and for sharing my insights... so I kinda disagree here with you londonvisuals.

I am definitely not super skilled, but neither I am scared that someone will take my work. No one can take your knowledge, or your experience away, it can just fade with time if there is no one to continue practicing it after you.

Knowledge is power - but hoarding too much knowledge/power doesn't make me happy if I cannot share it with someone.

Just my personal opinion :)
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2014-10-16, 12:20:19
Reply #5

londonvisuals

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Never said I am top league, in fact I might just be mediocre as you said but on the other hand I don't spam questions left and right how others did certain things.

You yourself have the knowledge and you wrothe this engine right ? You still dont give it for free right ?
You can sleep well, because you offer the tool. You dont sell products produced by the tool, so selling as many coppies of the software as you can Is in your interest. To do that people have to know your software and it is also in your interest if they ask questions.

So sorry Ondra, You are not in the same pair of shoes as the rest of us ;)

And btw how i pictured things is a bit extreme and it won't happen in the next few years or so, but eventually it will I think.


2014-10-16, 12:25:05
Reply #6

Ondra

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You yourself have the knowledge and you wrothe this engine right ? You still dont give it for free right ?

I was teaching programming at my alma mater for 2 years for next to nothing, I did a siggraph presentation about what makes corona successful for free (because I know other developers are too stubborn to actually take my advices seriously ;)), etc... so yeah, a bit. But as I said: nobody should be judged either for sharing the knowledge, or for not sharing it.

I am not saying you must share your knowledge. I am saying you should not bash those who choose to.
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2014-10-16, 12:36:47
Reply #7

londonvisuals

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I see your point. I also stated  how I see things (maybe some people will at least take it into consideration) and you totaly convinced me that there is no point in starting this discussion again. Let others decide if they want to answer all those questions or not.

btw. I feel kinda like you were yelling @ me when you type in bold :D

2014-10-16, 12:53:50
Reply #8

Ondra

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no, caps lock is yelling :D I was just stressing my main points so the discussion does not get sidetracked ;)
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2014-10-16, 12:57:55
Reply #9

Juraj

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I understand what Londonvisuals was saying, although I too disagree with that end part (outsourcing,blablah..). I am actually sort of amused he was brave enough to stir such, I always welcome some negativity :- ) I think it's cool, he's honest so what's the issue ?

I also understand we're deeply in off-topic....but I can't not join. (Not talking to anyone in personal, I always just broadly say) Some people do take it too far with too selfish intentions. They simply ask the very "which order of buttons did you touch?" and hardly say thanks, then you see them using it like it's almost their invention. I've been burned but these people exactly because I am always happy to answer and help stuff. But there are some limits in society to what is considered "POLITE", and lot of people go overboard and I think it's fair to remind tham this is not good behavior.

Asking people basically "How can I copy you?" is NOT POLITE. And that's basically all those "which exact HDRi, which exact tonemapping did you use,etc". So Londonvisuals critique was absolutely valid, although rude mannered and with strange conclusion with outsourcing....but the core idea was sound, and I feel the same and agree with it.

This is quite young industry and I see lot of people basically don't know how to make the best of it without going overboard and misusing the good will and general friendly atmosphere that still exists. This will end though, and we will end up basically like photography industry, with every man for himself. Being inpolite and obtrusive will only accelerate this process. You can already see highly regarded people and studio, already ignoring the community with some even saying they hate it. So take that into account.
« Last Edit: 2014-10-16, 13:02:45 by Juraj_Talcik »
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2014-10-16, 13:11:15
Reply #10

londonvisuals

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Asking people basically "How can I copy you?" is NOT POLITE. And that's basically all those "which exact HDRi, which exact tonemapping did you use,etc". So Londonvisuals critique was absolutely valid, although rude mannered and with strange conclusion with outsourcing....but the core idea was sound, and I feel the same and agree with it.

I knew i can count on You Juraj ;), You acctualy expressed my main poind better than I did myself.

This is quite young industry and I see lot of people basically don't know how to make the best of it without going overboard and misusing the good will and general friendly atmosphere that still exists. This will end though, and we will end up basically like photography industry, with every man for himself. Being inpolite and obtrusive will only accelerate this process. You can already see highly regarded people and studio, already ignoring the community with some even saying they hate it. So take that into account.

Not pretty sure if i get your point here as I should, BUT do you really feel like those lets name it as it should be named - copying people - commit to the community ?
I see that as they only log in, beg for scene, workflow details and leave, nothing more.
Personally I am not surprised about studios thinking this way. Everywhere you look all those super high end studios get bombarded with questions going too indepth into their workflow. Everyone, Blkhouse and others. They cant even publish a single image on FB without getting asked if they used this or that colormapping etc, so why even bother ?

As for me being rude - You are totaly right, I probably pushed it too far and i apoogise, but this is getting really annoying to see this questions everywhere.

Lastly thanks for your honesty Juraj, I really appreciate that you are as equally brave to tell the truth :)
« Last Edit: 2014-10-16, 13:15:27 by londonvisuals »

2014-10-16, 19:47:45
Reply #11

Coronaut

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I apologize for hijacking...
What is copy of someone else work? Everyone is using almost same approach to bunch of things these days, so i do not see problem when someone at least ask especially if that question is about "little tricks" and people should share their knowledge and help others. I do not see that as a problem. Yelling that everyone who ask rude question "Can you share scene" is coming from developing countries(originally much stronger language was used) is generalizing and negative kinda "i am fed up with those people"...
Apart from this negativity i share your train of thoughts about how people should realize and at least try and learn for themselves and as Juraj mention what happened to photography in last couple of years... But that is nature of how  people do things... And it is just ripple caused by enormous influx of people that are starting to get interest in photography when photography went digital, i know right now it's kinda devolving all principles as people tend to think if it's partly automated and "that is nothing special..."  You basically have hordes of newcomers asking all kind of questions and if you ask them question what is exposure or ISO they will have no clue. But they still want to know much complex things(not right order but what can you do)!
I wouldn't agree that no one is willing to help someone that is learning... There is plenty of people out there answering same questions that you could learn yourself if you have read camera manual not to mention other stuff...
As i do agree that photography is not just holding camera or even knowing gear etc...
Same as 3d is not just single clicking render button and pretend that you are expert if you place viz_people books or using evermotion models...
And everyone have right to ask stupid question.
So if you know something that someone else don't and do not want to share you should at least pretend to care for the sake of someone else that is willing to learn in right order and he will maybe pop up much better question next time.
Sooner or later people that want instant solutions will quit or realize that he need to learn basic things first this is from the dawn of men, and nothing is changes except we have much open and sometimes cruel responses as we are kinda cocooned in the safety of the internet. 
And yes there will always be some bitches who will not say thanks or behave ill mannered, but if everyone decided to "i am not helping anymore" That reminds me of "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" situation.
I am telling you all this as i have searched here shitload of times answers and if anyone(everyone) was reacting like you i wouldn't have answers to so many things... And maybe to you seems stupid cuz you know all this but who knows maybe someone is heaving trouble with something, or he wants confirmation of some sort etc...   
« Last Edit: 2014-10-16, 19:51:42 by Coronaut »

2014-10-16, 20:09:22
Reply #12

romullus

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So to sum up how I see it - gaining knowledge takes time. Time is money. I see a disturbing trend of giving real kowledge for free - ergo you people give someone your money, future money.
I dont mind giving DIRECTIONS, but people (in generall) please stop serving your knowledge on a silver dish to others.
Stop being Mother Teresa of CG and open your eyes.

I am curious what others think about this.....
I can tell you what i think about this. I think that this is most pathetic thing i've read in a while. I just can't believe how selfish some people can be. It makes me so angry, that i want to do something... i think i'm gona write some tutorials.
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
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2014-10-16, 20:13:04
Reply #13

Juraj

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{{ Out of respect for Gorodkov, this should really go to its own thread, sorry man but hey, inspiring work :- ) !...}}

Coronaut, that was super confusing to me :- ). I guess you're really trying to speak your mind loudly...but you should probably clean in it up a bit maybe.

Anyway, the devil is in details and those details can be quite large. I don't think anyone would disagree that 3D community is super young compared to other fields and it heavily shows in its spoiled attitude in requesting information (or files!).
It is quite unheard of in professional photography community to ask for example something like this: "What lens and exact settings did you use, where did you stand, what time of day it was, how much post did you apply,etc.."
Asking freely such concrete questions instead of abstract concepts, means you're not interested in learning how he/she came to solution, but your wish to replicate it, and thus, copy. Uff, copying is another concept people don't understand in this industry
but I will not get into that now, that would be endless debate :- )

You felt bit to black-and-white seeing of the issue and I don't think Londonvisuals meant that at all although it seems most took it that way. Opposite of not answering impolite questions is not "I am not helping anyone". It's more "I am helping those who ask right questions".
« Last Edit: 2014-10-16, 20:59:12 by Juraj_Talcik »
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2014-10-16, 20:41:06
Reply #14

lacilaci

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Gorodkov... Congratulations.. you created highly controversial piece.. :D People even argue what should or should not ask for :D That's art! :D Like I said already, beautiful work!!!