Author Topic: Displacement un-broken  (Read 18226 times)

2018-01-30, 20:44:17

Cinemike

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With this RC, displacement will not be calculated if there is more than one texture tag and the tag with the displacement is not the first in the line. No matter, if stacking is NOT involved or poly selections are set.

I suppose this results from the change to the latest RC where, actually with stacking only, the first tag's displacement is used. Please, fix this!


Win 10, C4D R19, Corona B1 RC 4
« Last Edit: 2019-12-02, 17:35:44 by Cinemike »

2018-01-31, 09:34:41
Reply #1

burnin

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Yes, it's noted on the release page & change log:
Quote
Changes in Beta 1 release candidate 4
  • Added a workaround for crash caused by motion blur, so it is disabled when the scene contains a subdivision surface applied to an object hierarchy containing both an object with UVW tag and an animated object
  • Fixed random resetting of post-processing values in IR
  • Fixed Xpresso scripts by re-enabling IR update on null object data changes
  • Fixed the Include/Exclude list functionality in Corona Light
  • Fixed bug in TeamRender where denoising was computed on clients, when it should not be because it is not supported in current implementation
  • Reduced viewport "stuttering" during updating of IR (better fix needs changes in core so it will be done for Beta 2)
  • Material stacking now takes the first material's displacement
... and in detail, posted here:
Quote
Just a note: in the 3ds Max version, when using the layered mtl, the displacement is as well considered only based on the base layer. This is by design, but we are receiving some reports that users do not like this, so this may be redesigned in the future.
... but you already know that. ;)


2018-01-31, 13:17:24
Reply #2

Cinemike

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Yes, it's noted on the release page & change log:
Quote
Changes in Beta 1 release candidate 4
  • Material stacking now takes the first material's displacement
... and in detail, posted here:
Quote
Just a note: in the 3ds Max version, when using the layered mtl, the displacement is as well considered only based on the base layer. This is by design, but we are receiving some reports that users do not like this, so this may be redesigned in the future.
... but you already know that. ;)
Yes, I am pretty well able to read, but I might lack in writing properly, I forgot a "NOT" in my initial post. Fixed it.
So it NOT working WITHOUT stacking used qualifies as a bug for me, especially since it reminds me of the VrayforC4D way now, which totally sucks (the displacement material itself, not working with selections and stuff).
I can live with the stacking way now as it works in RC 4, but with RC 2 the rest was working fine: Like using different displacement maps on different selections, no stacking involved there.

So ...
« Last Edit: 2018-01-31, 13:21:59 by Cinemike »

2018-01-31, 14:05:22
Reply #3

houska

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Hallo, Michael!

Sorry, but I don't quite get what the issue for you is. For me, the displacement works fine and in a logical way... That said, we know that the displacement support with stacking is not complete, but we will be having a discussion soon about how to improve it for Beta 2. If you have any ideas, we will be happy to hear them!

Look at the attached image. I use three materials on three different polygons and everything works fine, no stacking involved. Displacement worked even if I applied one material with displacement to the whole object. But maybe there's something that we forgot? In that case, we'd be grateful for any suggestions and/or bugreports!

Regards,

Cestmir

2018-01-31, 14:54:16
Reply #4

burnin

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I think the problem mentioned is, if material with displacement is not the first (left > right) then no displacement is applied.

As noted: "Material stacking now takes the first material's displacement" - so first & only the first slot/tag is used for displacement (for now) ;)

2018-01-31, 16:43:12
Reply #5

Cinemike

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As burnin wrote.

Look at the renderings from RC2 and RC4, an image says more than a thousand words and the virgin cube from RC 4 is not what I would expect.
While we are about it, detaching the polygon selections for applying displacement is also not quite what looks right to me, I'd rather have them attached to where they belong.

CU
Michael

PS
Added what it looks like with the native renderer from C4D.
« Last Edit: 2018-01-31, 16:51:51 by Cinemike »

2018-01-31, 21:25:30
Reply #6

Eddoron

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I'll try to jump into this, hopefully being able to help a bit.
As far as I know, Corona doesn't use the subdivide approach of displacement as you'd find it in C4D's AR, Arnold etc.
It's more similar to Octane. I haven't found much on the microgeometry topic and as mentioned I'd rather abstain from giving too much "advice" with my limited knowledge on that topic.

However, I've encountered a very similar problem with Octane and the solution was the angle smoothing(in standalone). I guess this would be pretty much the same as adjusting the phong angle value in C4D.
I've also found this: https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/5000529362


It's been a few years since the last time I touched MAX but IIRC, Turbosmooth is basically a subdivision method.

I think one of both solution, phong or SDS could solve the problem.

Now, I know that many people don't want to subdivide their models in fear of losing the shape, even if it's not smoothed.
Luckily, C4D offers Hypernurbs/SDS weighting since v8 and this could be very helpful in such a situation.(assuming it's the subdivision that's needed)

Another thing that is very helpful is to align the vertex normals. There's a small but very useful tool from frostsoft that helps you do that ($1):
http://frostsoft.blogspot.de/2012/01/vertex-normal-tool-plugin_80.html

With that, you can align the v. normals to give you the same look of the cube, even if the full phong angle is set.
(assuming the phong angle is the problem)

Also very helpful, a guide to vertex normals: http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/VertexNormal

I hope I could help a bit with the tearing faces problem.

2018-02-01, 00:34:04
Reply #7

Cinemike

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It might not be that easy.

Coming from VrayforC4D, I know how problematic all the polygon selection (and stacking) stuff was due to the way C4D works (no mapping per channel possible in C4D was an explanation I got, IIRC, I am not a Max user and I have no idea how things work there). So I do not know how the Corona team made it possible at all(quite a lot more usable than in VrayforC4D already when it comes to stacking and polygon selections!).

To me, even with subdividing the hell out of a model, it looks like polygon selections are internally treated as separate objects, which would then be the reason for the "detached" look. But I might be completely wrong about that, too, of course.

I hope the Corona team can manage to get displacement (and stacking, but it is not stacking this bug report was about, to say it once more) to work as close as possible to C4D in the beautiful render quality Corona comes with. It'd be a lot easier than working with masks and UVs and layered shaders all the way.

CU
Michael

2018-07-21, 16:15:40
Reply #8

Cinemike

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*Bump*
Old, but still annoying.

2018-08-09, 19:49:05
Reply #9

Cinemike

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With no more responses and the release coming closer, I am really afraid we will be left with this broken and some other, aforementioned stacking issues.

2018-08-17, 15:08:17
Reply #10

Cinemike

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Weekly *bump*

2019-02-14, 19:12:48
Reply #11

rojharris

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Bump again... Still broken. Cannot stack displacement

2019-02-23, 17:05:32
Reply #12

mrittman

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Displacement still doesn't work with material stacking?

I was able to use the Layer shader and choose multiple textures to use as displacement. Then use a Projection shader for each layer for the placement of my textures. The problem I ran into is that the projection shader lacks a "Side" (Both/Front/Back) option, so your texture will end up projecting on both sides of your model. Not sure why Maxon omitted this. So at this point, we really need Displacement to work with all tags of stacked materials.
« Last Edit: 2019-02-23, 18:24:37 by mrittman »

2019-03-03, 22:59:25
Reply #13

Designerman77

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Yes, displacement ist totally weird in core 3, when materials are stacked !

In core 1.7 it worked perfectly.

What are the programmers doing at Corona in the last time? Looks like they more and more destroy the program !!!!!!

As mentioned by other users, now the left material is the dominant one in displacement. Fine... BUT: its diffuse gets overridden by the material on the right.
What a crap is this?

Make it work like in core 1.7 again !!!
It was great before!

And despite the displacement problem, now bumps, including rounded edges are rendered SUPER NOISY !!!!
I have discussed this with Corona support, and they confirmed that they are trying to fix it.

Good people at Corona... PLEASE FIX these two issues, and simply make them behave like in CORE 1.7 !!!!

Never change a running system is a motto your programmers should keep in mind.

However, these two mentioned bugs make our work at my office super annoying at the moment...

hurry up with fixing these two issues, since in my oppinion, displacement and round edges are the most important features for realistic renders!





2019-12-02, 16:27:16
Reply #14

Cinemike

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With the new 2.5D displacement, the issue is mostly fixed - the tearing disappeared.

When you put a light inside the cube, there is slight leaking, but for the general purpose I'd say all is fine now.

There is a new issue, though, with an extra report ;)