Author Topic: Corona 1.4 render setup UI overhaul  (Read 7708 times)

2016-03-02, 20:14:21

Ludvik Koutny

  • VIP
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 2557
  • Just another user
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
Here's concept for improved UI open for feedback:

Denoiser mode moved into scene settings:

Reasoning:
Denoising is not something that affects true performance of rendering, it's more of a postprocess effect. Also, Performance settings are described as something only experienced users should touch, that's definitely not the case of turning denoiser on/off.

Denoiser radius moved from debug into scene settings next to the denoiser toggle:

Reasoning:
When we are denoising images that are very close to the final, with very little residual noise, we may benefit from using lower denoiser radius, so we can clean up very subtle noise with nearly no detail loss. Also, when trying to denoise very noisy images, it may be beneficial to increase denoiser radius to get clean and less splotchy result, at the expense of some detail.

Pros:
More control over how denoiser works

Cons:
One more UI element bloating UI
May confuse new users who may set it up wrong and then whine on support portal denoiser causes too much detail loss or produces blotches.

Added % sign after Noise limit spinner

Reasoning:
To indicate value is set in percent

Adaptivity toggle will remain in devel/debug settings

Reasoning:
Adaptivity will be always on by default, and we should focus to make it more proof for all of the scenarios. So if you have any scene where adaptivity makes results worse, then definitely post it on mantis. Of course, adaptivity by design will often cause more noise on some areas of the image at the expense of cleaning up others. That's not a bug behavior. But if you find any scene where adaptivity makes picture truly worse, then definitely report it. It will stay exposed in deve/debug though, if someone ran across some rare scene, where it makes issues in the middle of production.

We may introduce "Adaptivity recalculation interval" setting

Reasoning:
This value defines how often is image evaluated and adaptivity sampling focus adjusted accordingly. In early testing build, default was 2, now, in latest build, default is 10. While 2 was way too low, 10 is probably way too much. If we expose this setting, would you guys be willing to intensively test it and help us find the best default among different scene types?

2016-03-02, 23:32:32
Reply #1

romullus

  • Global Moderator
  • Active Users
  • ****
  • Posts: 8779
  • Let's move this topic, shall we?
    • View Profile
    • My Models
Here's concept for improved UI open for feedback:

I like it, but please, add checkboxes for denoiser and render selected instead of those none and disabled dummy modes. Have pity on users.



We may introduce "Adaptivity recalculation interval" setting

Reasoning:
This value defines how often is image evaluated and adaptivity sampling focus adjusted accordingly. In early testing build, default was 2, now, in latest build, default is 10. While 2 was way too low, 10 is probably way too much. If we expose this setting, would you guys be willing to intensively test it and help us find the best default among different scene types?

For sure. But why not to leave it exposed permanently in devel/experimental rollout? I'm sure power users would love to have one more control to play with ;]
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
My Models | My Videos | My Pictures

2016-03-03, 03:54:18
Reply #2

Christa Noel

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 911
  • God bless us everyone
    • View Profile
    • dionch.studio
For sure. But why not to leave it exposed permanently in devel/experimental rollout? I'm sure power users would love to have one more control to play with ;]
yes big agree, I like that idea. +1!

2016-03-03, 08:00:44
Reply #3

lacilaci

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 749
    • View Profile
For sure. But why not to leave it exposed permanently in devel/experimental rollout? I'm sure power users would love to have one more control to play with ;]
yes big agree, I like that idea. +1!

Well if changing the setting can make a notable difference in performance, then yes... otherwise you can still experiment with it using string options right? "int adaptivity.adaptivityInterval = #"

By the way, interval is in passes right?

2016-03-03, 09:43:41
Reply #4

Ludvik Koutny

  • VIP
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 2557
  • Just another user
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
In this particular case, checkboxes here do not make any sense honestly. It's a simple rule:

you would have 3 UI controls instead of 2, but they won't give you any additional flexibility (you won't be able to do anything new you could not do before) and they won't make process faster or easier to use. It will add visual UI clutter without any reward what so ever.

2016-03-03, 10:01:03
Reply #5

romullus

  • Global Moderator
  • Active Users
  • ****
  • Posts: 8779
  • Let's move this topic, shall we?
    • View Profile
    • My Models
Sorry Rawa, but i completely disagree with you, it WOULD make process faster and easier to use (click vs click-move-click) and it almost won't add any visual clutter as no controls have to be moved or crunched - there is plenty of space to add those checkboxes. Every (i mean EVERY) single time i use render selected feature, i wish that there would be that damn checkbox. As much as i like elegant and simple UI idea, i can't stand when usability has to be sacrificed for it.

Sorry for a rant, i just need to vent my frustration. If it's firmly decided that those checkboxes has no place in Corona's vision of UI, i won't bother you again about it.

Well if changing the setting can make a notable difference in performance, then yes... otherwise you can still experiment with it using string options right? "int adaptivity.adaptivityInterval = #"

Thanks for info!
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
My Models | My Videos | My Pictures

2016-03-03, 10:45:44
Reply #6

Ludvik Koutny

  • VIP
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 2557
  • Just another user
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
The thing is that there are more than one options. So while denoiser would be activated with a single click, firefly removal would then have to be click-click-move-click instead of click-move-click. And render selected has more modes as well, so as long as user does not want to use what's set there by default, it's actually one more click for him.

While i agree that every click or move should be shaved off if possible for tasks that are done often, enabling denoiser or render selected is probably not a task that is being done 10+ times a minute, so it's really not worth adding UI clutter.

Lastly, UI always needs to have clear and consistent guidelines. You can't use few different UI philosophies scattered across single piece of software, or you end up with something like 3ds Max itself. So if we followed a logic that any dropdown that has none option should have checkbox activator, then primary and secondary GI would have checkboxes to, so would image filter and VFB type. Now we would have 6 new UI elements that do not add any real speed or flexibility benefit.

2016-03-03, 10:55:27
Reply #7

Frood

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 1903
    • View Profile
    • Rakete GmbH
i can't stand when usability has to be sacrificed for it.

I think it´s only a different definition of "usability". I remember the UI switch from Alpha to v1.0: suddenly I needed twice the time to find the (few) settings, some of the Corona magic got somehow lost. And what about new users? One of the most appealing features of Corona was/is it´s simplicity. This is a bigger deal than one might think as someone who has been using Corona for a long time now.

Solution may be having a "Standard" and a "Advanced" GUI. Similar to checking "Development/Experimental Stuff" but with impact on all rollouts/settings. This way you (and me, because I also miss it) may get your checkbox in "Advanced" mode ;) or the adaptivityInterval (please do;) while new users have the simplified UI. Regarding that checkbox it does of course not make sense to change the basic handling but you get the idea.

I remember there has been a (way to) short note/discussion about standard/advanced UI somewhere in the forum.

Good Luck



Never underestimate the power of a well placed level one spell.

2016-03-03, 11:10:55
Reply #8

Ludvik Koutny

  • VIP
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 2557
  • Just another user
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
Well, actually if majority of people would be for to have checkboxes to activate dropdowns that have currently "none" or "disabled" option, it would be reasonable to do it, but it would have to be done everywhere, so UI is consistent across all corona windows and panels. This is not nVidia forum where you get banned for feedback, here, everything is always open for discussion. In the end, it's the userbase who use the renderer on daily basis :)

2016-03-03, 11:12:59
Reply #9

Juraj

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 4743
    • View Profile
    • studio website
Standard/Advanced version of GUI is rabit hole. It creates the effect that even the most clueless beginners feel like they're missing out on "better controls".

Just look at the amount of people still asking for "best settings" on forum :- ). Advanced division would simply amplify this effect, Advanced would become de-facto the new default anyway.
Please follow my new Instagram for latest projects, tips&tricks, short video tutorials and free models
Behance  Probably best updated portfolio of my work
lysfaere.com Please check the new stuff!

2016-03-03, 11:33:35
Reply #10

maru

  • Corona Team
  • Active Users
  • ****
  • Posts: 12711
  • Marcin
    • View Profile
Just a quick mockup, so names of the categories should probably be changed. What do you think? My goal was better distribution of the UI elements and reduction of the height of the rollouts.
-start interactive and show vfb switched places - who uses "show vfb" more often than start ir?
-limits arranged in some more eye-pleasing manner (hopefully)
-"render elements" and "reset settings" moved to "render" (worktitle) category
-overrides merged to the "render" category

Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
3D Support Team Lead - Corona | contact us

2016-03-03, 11:41:50
Reply #11

Ludvik Koutny

  • VIP
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 2557
  • Just another user
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
Not sure about reset settings being in render category. It doesn't render anything. I think it belongs into system tab to be honest :)

2016-03-03, 11:46:58
Reply #12

maru

  • Corona Team
  • Active Users
  • ****
  • Posts: 12711
  • Marcin
    • View Profile
"Reset settings" applies to render settings. It's just an idea, though. System tab would be a good place too. ;)
Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
3D Support Team Lead - Corona | contact us

2016-03-03, 11:50:02
Reply #13

lacilaci

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 749
    • View Profile
why not just make a radio button switch for denoiser off, firefly only, full.... like with exposure (simple vs photographic) forget checkboxes and dropdowns... unless there are more options planned but still..

2016-03-03, 11:52:29
Reply #14

Ludvik Koutny

  • VIP
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 2557
  • Just another user
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
why not just make a radio button switch for denoiser off, firefly only, full.... like with exposure (simple vs photographic) forget checkboxes and dropdowns... unless there are more options planned but still..

Because radios take a lot of space, and visually clutter the most. You don't need to see all the options at one given point in time.