Author Topic: Mac M1 LOW POWER MODE bug lives on.  (Read 11966 times)

2022-12-13, 18:07:24
Reply #15

bnji

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Hi all,
After reviewing the issue, our dev team found that it is actually a CPU issue (thermal throttling).
I mean, you'd think that if you set your power preset to "High" you should then get all the power from the CPU, this idea is correct; however, Corona exhausts the CPU way more than the OS or CPU is expecting, so the automatic response from the CPU is to reduce the overall performance.
This is happening mostly on laptops (Macbooks) due to the inefficiency of their cooling system.
This shouldn't be happening when using a desktop computer (including Mac minis), as they have a more efficient cooling solution than Macbooks.
You can monitor the CPU temperature and the overall performance of the CPU by using either the built-in "Activity Monitor" app, or using the "TG Pro" app, or using the "iStatistica Pro for Mac" app.
I hope this helps.
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2022-12-13, 20:28:26
Reply #16

rafaz

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Hi all,
After reviewing the issue, our dev team found that it is actually a CPU issue (thermal throttling).
I mean, you'd think that if you set your power preset to "High" you should then get all the power from the CPU, this idea is correct; however, Corona exhausts the CPU way more than the OS or CPU is expecting, so the automatic response from the CPU is to reduce the overall performance.
This is happening mostly on laptops (Macbooks) due to the inefficiency of their cooling system.
This shouldn't be happening when using a desktop computer (including Mac minis), as they have a more efficient cooling solution than Macbooks.
You can monitor the CPU temperature and the overall performance of the CPU by using either the built-in "Activity Monitor" app, or using the "TG Pro" app, or using the "iStatistica Pro for Mac" app.
I hope this helps.


hm, then why when we switch to low power mode and it goes full blast and does not throttle?

2022-12-14, 16:09:28
Reply #17

masterzone

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Hi all,
After reviewing the issue, our dev team found that it is actually a CPU issue (thermal throttling).
I mean, you'd think that if you set your power preset to "High" you should then get all the power from the CPU, this idea is correct; however, Corona exhausts the CPU way more than the OS or CPU is expecting, so the automatic response from the CPU is to reduce the overall performance.
This is happening mostly on laptops (Macbooks) due to the inefficiency of their cooling system.
This shouldn't be happening when using a desktop computer (including Mac minis), as they have a more efficient cooling solution than Macbooks.
You can monitor the CPU temperature and the overall performance of the CPU by using either the built-in "Activity Monitor" app, or using the "TG Pro" app, or using the "iStatistica Pro for Mac" app.
I hope this helps.

Sorry but I don't think so, and your Dev Team may doesn't know How Apple silicon CPU works.... If you monitoring the overall performance during Cinema4D Internal Rendering Engine the CPU stay around 980% for all the time (see attachment), and no action is needed from the preference panel where battery settings are, you also can hear fun running very quietly. Only with Corona Render we got performance issue and wrong CPU usage. Is not a thermal issue...this low CPU usage appears on second or third rendering start...or after the five pass....
Why does Corona slow down to 780% and Cinema4D Rendering Engine still on 980% of CPU using? Why does Cinema4D is not Thermal affected? Because Corona doesn't run correctly on M1 device...is very simple...

Take a look to these screenshots...Tell to your Dev Team that Corona Render must be compiled correctly for M1 devices...is not a Apple Silicon throttle issue...I think that with this kind of CPU your Dev Team need to investigate more deeply on the Code.

so...does is difficult for Devs to run a Cinema4D rendering engine scene and monitoring the CPU usage?
« Last Edit: 2022-12-14, 16:46:42 by masterzone »
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2022-12-14, 19:37:53
Reply #18

rafaz

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Perfect explanation!


We did report this long time ago and they came up with same explanation blaming Thermal throttle then and now, All we need is the true explanation about it, I don't know why they're dragging this for so long! NONE of the devs come with a real answear on when will actually look at it.   

What I see is that the dev team does not have a macbook machine to teste at, they probably have an mac mini m1 and that's all they call for.

2022-12-15, 10:21:07
Reply #19

maru

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Challenge accepted. ;)
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2022-12-15, 12:51:59
Reply #20

masterzone

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Perfect explanation!


We did report this long time ago and they came up with same explanation blaming Thermal throttle then and now, All we need is the true explanation about it, I don't know why they're dragging this for so long! NONE of the devs come with a real answear on when will actually look at it.   

What I see is that the dev team does not have a macbook machine to teste at, they probably have an mac mini m1 and that's all they call for.

It's very simple to explain from a developer...if you try to compiling a software originally developed on a CISC processor architectures (Intel) you need a clean work to do on the code, not only hit "compiling" e finger crossed and you need also good compliers....I think that the dev team of Corona Render is very skilled but maybe doesn't know deeply the RISC (ARM) architecture.
So, right now Corona Renderer is not compiled on Apple M1 as expected due to performance issue.
Cinema4D is very well compiled on M1...
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2023-01-05, 13:24:54
Reply #21

rafaz

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Happy new year to all of you!

Let's not forget that soon this bug will be 1 year old!!

2023-01-10, 13:39:23
Reply #22

maru

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@Rafaz @Masterzone @Philw @Rojharris + anyone else experiencing this issue:

When you have time, could you please:
1. Open any scene where you can reproduce the issue
2. Enable the render stamp in render settings
3. Set a pass limit (e.g. 25 passes - the point is to render with a fixed pass limit, but the rendering should not be very short, a few minutes would be great)
4. Do not use any other limit (noise limit or time limit must be disabled)
5.DISABLE the "low power" mode
6. Render and wait for it to reach the pass limit.
7. Write down your total render time. A screenshot showing the render with the stamp would be great (or if you cannot share the image - a screenshot of the Stats tab of the VFB).
8. ENABLE the "low power" mode
9. Render and wait for it to reach the pass limit.
10. Write down your total render time. A screenshot showing the render with the stamp would be great (or if you cannot share the image - a screenshot of the Stats tab of the VFB).

Please share your results along with your Macbook model and CPU model. Thanks in advance!


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2023-01-10, 19:19:57
Reply #23

rafaz

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Hello, and thx for you response Maru,

I took the time to do few tests to show you guys what a come up with,

I did 3 renders as show on the pic,

1 - Physical render from C4d
2- Corona - Low power off
3- Corona - Low power On

With these results we can assure that Thermal is not the issue here, I had 0 problems with physical stock render on c4d. But when we start using corona you can see the graphs all messy when low power mode is off and it gets a little better when it's on. Usually after pass 5 is when the speed start to drop. Even with higher temps on Physical it kept stable all the way towards the end.

I have zero knowledge on programing but the results sure show us something is off on how corona is using the cores, it uses the Efficiency cores at full blast and the performance cores are all messy. 
I Also did record the screen and you can see the difference with low power on and off.

I'll try to do test you asked for to see the differences.

Machine:

Macbook pro 16" - M1 Pro
16gb ram
Cinema 4D 2023.1.3
Ventura 13.1
Corona 9 HotFix 1 ( also tried the latest 10v)


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KRWFQA4Rtx7yxAr9ahYu2glyfxXuaH0k/view?usp=sharing

« Last Edit: 2023-01-10, 19:25:15 by rafaz »

2023-01-10, 22:15:22
Reply #24

johnnyswedish

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Hi Rafaz,

Looking at your ram (16GB). Could this be a problem? I had a Macbook Pro 2012 with 16MB, could not achieve anything. Only my own experience, but anything less than 32MB is a no, no. My laptop has 64MB and can handle most scenes unless totally insane. I did get frustrated at Apples non-comital attitude so switched to PC. A better option if you ask me for any 3D work. Hope you get it sorted though. John

2023-01-11, 09:52:15
Reply #25

maru

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Hello, and thx for you response Maru,
I took the time to do few tests to show you guys what a come up with,


What is your exact CPU model?
Did you use pass limit or time limit? Unless I am missing something, in both cases the render time was identical - 08:29.

Update: I just saw your video and your test is very different from what I requested in my original post. Please follow the steps I listed.

I can also clearly see in your video that:
with "low power" set to "never" the ray/s are lower than with "low power" set to "always". You get faster rendering with "low power" set to "never". It's contrary to what users are reporting in this thread.


Please carefully follow the steps I listed at https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=38220.msg208166#msg208166 and share your results.
« Last Edit: 2023-01-11, 13:40:04 by maru »
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2023-01-11, 13:36:55
Reply #26

rafaz

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I believe you got it all wrong and the test you saw it's not contrary what users are reporting...

"I can also clearly see in your video that:
with "low power" set to "never" the ray/s are lower than with "low power" set to "always". You get faster rendering with "low power" set to "never". It's contrary to what users are reporting in this thread."
A: Maybe because you watched 2-3 min of the video?

If you watch the video you're gonna notice that after PASS 5 it will drop the CPU usage ( Around 1:35 video time) to the 600%s.. and it will stay around 720% or less, after I  Turn LOW POWER MODE ON (ALWAYS) it will go up to 850%++, it would go higher but recording the screen will take a chunk of the cpu.. Like I said, the first 5 passes there's no problem at all, it keeps the cpu usage @ 950% and thats how it should be  the whole render, C4d Physical does that for hours  and does not thermal throttle.

Like I said, the CPU model is M1 Pro, I have attached the print

2023-01-11, 13:40:35
Reply #27

maru

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Sorry, it was my mistake. Thank you for the clarification. But still, could you please do "render X passes and measure render time" test as I requested and share your results?
Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
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2023-01-11, 14:57:53
Reply #28

rafaz

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I did the test as you asked,

25 passes with ON and OFF low power mode

Results:

Low Power ON  = 19:52 min
Low Power OFF = 21:45 min

Watching these 2 renders it's very clear that has something wrong on how corona use the cores? M1 pro is a 10 core cpu 2 Efficency and 8 Performance cores. therefore, if we take a look at the graphs i posted the 2 efficiency cores are taking the high load and the other 8 are like "thermal Throlling" going up and down, just to be clear they're acting like themal T. but they're not.. Like i said it starts with just few low minutes into the render right after pass 5  maybe that's the place to look at, what happenas after pass5  that causes the cpu to drop it's perfomance.

I hope this is very clear to have a better understanding.

2023-01-11, 16:13:50
Reply #29

maru

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In addition to my previous request, please also try this:

1. Enable the Development / Experimental Stuff tab - https://support.chaos.com/hc/en-us/articles/4528469959953
2. DISABLE adaptivity
3. Test the same scenario again with Low Power ON and OFF
4. Share your results (please specify where you used adaptivity on and off and where you used low power on and off)
« Last Edit: 2023-01-11, 16:41:58 by maru »
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