Author Topic: New mobile workstation  (Read 15575 times)

2020-01-22, 08:36:52

Giona

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Hi everyone,
It's time for me to update my mobile workstation. I know that I could buy a more powerful desktop workstation, but at the moment I'm always on the move.
My actual mobile is a Dell Precision M6800, so I first looked at the new Dell Precision 7740.
Than I discovered an Italian brand that makes high quality custom mobile workstations with desktop cpu.

Here the specs and prices for the two pc:

Dell Precision 7740: 3938.54€+ taxes

CPU: Intel i9-9880H (octa-core, 16MB cache 2.3Ghz - 4.8Ghz)
GPU: Quadro RTX 4000 8GB
RAM: 64GB 2666Mhz, 4x16GB
SSD: 512GB PCIe NVMe M.2 Class 40
OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit


Santech G59: 3289€ Taxes included

CPU: Intel i9-9900K (octa-core, 16MB cache 3.6Ghz - 5Ghz)
GPU: GeForce RTX 2070 8GB
RAM: 64GB 2666Mhz, 4x16GB
SSD: 500GB Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe M.2 Class 40
HDD: 2 TB Hibrid SSHD Firecuda SATA III
OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit

I will use the pc for Arch-viz and product visualizations. I generally work with full 3D environments in 3Ds max, Corona (of course), some photoshop, Substance designer.
Never tried GPU rendering, but I would like to.

I would like to hear your thought.
Let me know if you have any suggestions.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: 2020-01-22, 09:08:01 by giona4 »

2020-01-22, 11:01:36
Reply #1

Vuk

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My suggestion would be to wait one or two more months since AMD already showed the new Ryzen 4000 series laptops on CES 2020 which have more powerful mobile processors than the Intel series.

Haven't heard of Santech but the one you want has a 9900k which is a fully-fledged desktop CPU. That will probably be more powerful than the Ryzen 4000 mobile lineup but also more power-hungry and prone to overheating. None the less if you just look for pure performance and don't mind a hot laptop in your lap and a huge brick the 9900k seems the way to go!

Be sure to check upgradability also I used to own a precision laptop from Dell 8 years ago and they were quite easy to upgrade in terms of ssd, memory, hdd and even cpu back then...



2020-01-22, 11:43:12
Reply #2

Juraj

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Santech is just another domestic retailer for Taiwanese OEM brand CLEVO. There are hundred such brands around the world, they buy the body and sell it under their name.

They have their benefits and drawbacks:

+ Much cheaper, but depends on reseller, but always cheaper than Dell/etc..
+ Often perfect upgradability, these are almost never soldered. So it makes perfect chance to buy them in low configuration of memory & SSD and buy these separately.
+ Because of that, they offer often exotic combinations, like they did this year on CES with their 12-core desktop AMD Ryzen inside of their their bigger models.

- Ugly as hell. Every single one of them. They are bigger for identical specs, and uglier in every single case. I know it's for work...but there are limits to ugliness :- (
- They offer less than stellar displays to choose from. The kind of flagship 400+ nit panels like Dell XPS or MacPro 16 have are not available.

I sometimes look at various laptops and there simply isn't a good choice for CPU rendering. If you do GPU rendering, you can get thin workstation from Razer like Johannes did with 2080 + eGPU and you have kickass setup for that.
With CPU rendering, you are stuck with inferior 8-core CPUs, which are incredible for mobile CPUs, but still suck for rendering.

That is to say I have nothing to advise ;- ). But if you really want the best, and don't pay ridiculous money, CLEVO is the only way.
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2020-01-22, 12:05:23
Reply #3

Vuk

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I also forgot to add that if you are interested you can also go the SFF route. There are tons of small form factor cases on the market that can fit easily in your backpack and can accommodate the 3950x with a desktop gpu and even an 240,280 aio. This would give you an insane amount of power of a laptop and probably cost you half the money. There are also great portable monitors from Asus that are IPS and Full HD. 

The only downside to this would be that you can't really open this in an airplane or in any other place where you don't have a power outlet. On the other side, the laptops you are seeking from my experience won't last you more than 20 minutes just on their battery alone :). If an sff build fits your workflow you could save some money and get a more powerful machine! Just my 2 cents...

2020-01-22, 12:44:55
Reply #4

Philip kelly

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The dells are mad heavy.
The word Mobile is used , but your shoulder will be broken carrying it around.
The charger are like a brick in size and weight.

My 2 euors worth........
Dell Precision T7910

2020-01-22, 12:59:57
Reply #5

Vuk

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Exactly! I had the precision "mobile" workstation and I remember the power brick being double the size of any other ultra-gaming branded laptop. I also used my laptop's full potential only while I was sitting on a desk near a power outlet since rendering on the battery would last me maybe 5 minutes tops. The laptop was always crazy loud and practically intolerable to hold in lap while under full load...

Here is an example of an sff monster build, I am pretty sure you could go even smaller :)

2020-01-22, 13:48:11
Reply #6

Juraj

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Unfortuntely power-brick is always heavy, even for ultra-thin workstations.

My brother bought MSI Creator 65 two weeks ago, and it's 1.9KG 8-core with RTX 2080 and 4k display. Amazing performance for something so thin and light.
But the brick is 900 grams,... it has to be to, no way around that wattage.

I admire and hate those SFFX builds at same time. They're ultra cute, esp. with beautifully machine alumium cases like Louqe ghost S1
But they absolutely suck the same way as laptops just have stronger parts. Even with 280mm AIO, the airflow is always terminated in some ill-way, either overheating the chipset on board, or the PSU itself, or everything is overheating everything.

When I look at the Reddit benchmarks and youtube reviews of these builds (like from OptimumTech guy), they are ultra-hot and super-loud. I might as well just get laptop at that point and actually be portable.
Since most people don't build them to be portable, it's just fashion item at this point ("Look at my X-Box sized PCMasterrace build!"
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2020-01-22, 13:51:25
Reply #7

Juraj

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But it's really good looking thing...that's for sure.

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2020-01-22, 16:22:16
Reply #8

Giona

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Thanks guys for your answers.

I have to say that I'm not concerned too much about the weight of the mobile workstations.

I need to better explain my current work situation: during the week I'm working in a city and on weekends and holidays I always go back to my hometown. I'd like to bring with me the workstation, that's why I'm thinking to buy a mobile one.
This pc will be used at home for my freelance works, during the day of the working week I'm working with the pc of the studio.

The SFF solutions could be quite interesting for my purpose.

Juraj, you say that they can have airflow issue, but are they worse than a mobile workstation about this?

I'd like to see the price of a solution like that with a Ryzen 3950x, a GeForce RTX 2070 and at least 64GB ram.

Can some of you help me to find the hardware that can fit into one of those little case?

Thanks!

2020-01-22, 16:48:07
Reply #9

Juraj

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OK, than in your position, where you will mainly be travelling between few set locations, and not bringing it into train for work or clients to show, the SFF solution that VUK suggested is actually a really good alternative.

SFF can be anything from 10 Liters to massive 40 Liters, it has no defining measurements, just that it should be "smaller" :- ). There are some super thin cases that can fit E-ATX boards, and super pretty big that can barely fit ITX. A lot of options, a lot of research to do.

There is whole Reddit section dedicated to this community where you can look for inspiration, as well as lot of youtube videos, particularly from OptimumTech.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRYOj4DmyxhBVrdvbsUwmAA

Regarding airflow, there are generally two ways these PCs are built:

1) With air-tower which usually has to be pretty small for most cases with few exceptions. This is incredibly bad idea for 3950X, yes people do it but just because they can, doesn't mean it should be done. The CPU can be run in "eco" mode which is under-volted by stock bios in that case. For what is worth, my 3950X runs hot with massive NH-D15 in super ventilated case, people want to tell me it's "ok" to run it with tiny pancake cooler :- ) ?
2) With AIO cooler, but then the radiator has to be positioned in top of the case otherwise the amount of heat will wreck everything, esp. the PSU which always positioned like Puzzle piece and when overheated will start spinning fan into ridiculously loud DBs (like 40).

So my advice, is to go smaller, but not too smaller. Something like Cerberus with handles http://www.sliger.com/products/cases/cerberus/ would be great with 280mm radiator or Lian Li TU150, also with handles that can accomodate NH-D15 or NH-U12A.
The "sandwich" cases (because the GPU is sandwiched with riser cable into vertical position) are much sexier...but with shit airflow.

People will generally say that it works, but that is not such a clear-cut case. Everything in air-constricted case will deteroriate. ITX boards have already very limited amount of VRM capacity in terms of both power stages and heatsink volume, X570 boards have chipset fans that are blocked by GPU even in their full-scale ATX formats, but in ITX or mATX the effect is compounded. Board where both chipset and VRM will run at 100C year-around will eventually deteroriate and you don't want to put expensive board into trash after a year.

Regarding price, they aren't more expensive by default. The cases are quite often more 200 Euros than 100 because they're usually aluminium for weight (and because almost all of them are manufactured in LianLi factory).
Otherwise all the rest costs the same.


« Last Edit: 2020-01-22, 16:58:14 by Juraj Talcik »
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2020-01-23, 08:38:53
Reply #10

Giona

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Ok, I'm definitely amazed by these sff builds!

The Ncase M1 V6 case of the video above looks cool, but the availability is quite bad on their website. And I would like to build this workstation asap for an incoming work :)

Lian-Li TU150 case seems a very good alternative, slightly bigger, but probably better for cooling.

I see a problem though.. Correct me if I'm wrong, but It looks like on mini ITX motherboards like Asus ROG Strix X570-I the maximum amount of RAM I can put is 64GB.
This can be a problem in the long term, because I'm already thinking to upgrade to 128GB RAM.

Do you know other motherboard that can fit a small case like the Lian-Li (or similar) that support up to 128GB?

2020-01-23, 10:33:50
Reply #11

Juraj

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Yes, ITX is no-go because of two dimms if you want 128GB.

I don't know most of these cases from head, but some fit up to massive e-atx like this one guy from Croatia I came across last year. So the options exist.
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/sfftime-presents-p-atx-the-9l-case-with-atx-and-aio-support.10919/page-29




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2020-01-23, 11:24:20
Reply #12

Giona

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Mmm ok, so the only way to put 128gb is to use a standard ATX motherboard?


2020-01-23, 11:35:23
Reply #13

Juraj

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Well...there is exactly one microATX as well, the Asrock X570 Pro4, and it has somewhat under-nourished power cascade. It might survive 3950X with some airflow on the VRM.

It's all about some form of compromise, small boards either lack functionality, proper power cascade, or both. They're just small.
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2020-01-23, 11:52:56
Reply #14

Giona

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Thanks Juraj for the informations.
I'm going to make a deep research to see if it's something doable or if I'm trying to put too much power into these small cases :)