Advice on new Workstation for beginner

[David Males]

Thank you for reply Juraj,
I would be really happy for more advice, especially from you.

Anyway, to be honest, I still have 1 or 2 months of saving money, but I wanted to have some idea about how much I have to save up.
So that's the reason I just researched the key components, not fans etc. So I am listening.
I basically added that up there to see that I need additional 20-30 euros for fan etc, the same goes for a case, is it worth spending more money on that?)

About the Ram, so it is better to use more GB of cheaper ones?

I have a lot of time figuring the setup up, so feel free to add some comments when you have enough time:)

Also, is there anything new that is going to be released in following months that would be worth waiting for?
Thanks:)

[Juraj]

Anyway, to be honest, I still have 1 or 2 months of saving money

Ah good, if you have time then wait and research :- ).

the same goes for a case, is it worth spending more money on that?

Absolutely. A good case contributes to better cooling, easier installation, modularity of future upgrades, and last but to me most important, to silent operation.
All-time favourites like Fractal Define R5 even include 3 high-end fans in the package so you don't need to order additional ones (and you don't with single GPU).

About the Ram, so it is better to use more GB of cheaper ones?

Today, yes, in almost every situation. For certain applications, highest overall speed affects minimally the overall performance, but in 3dsMax, rendering, Adobe Suite,etc.. it doesn't do anything at all.
So simply going for reliable brand and best value/performance model is the go-to solution. Last year that was Crucial model, but I honestly don't know what the current popular favourite is.

As for more, if this is "budget workstation", then you can certainly live with 16gb just 'fine' (sort of..) but I wouldn't be able to work with it. I work with 64 and regularly fill it up on everyday basis, but 32gb is just right for average freelancer right now imho.

Also, is there anything new that is going to be released in following months that would be worth waiting for?

Sadly not at all. Skylake-E or whatever high-end platform will come soonest is year away, and I doubt it will be any more impressive then current Haswell-E. Same go for GPUs I think...

But no matter that, the evolution right now is slow, you never regret even if the next best thing comes 2 days after your purchase. Golden rule to live by is to buy what you need, right when you need it.

[David Males]

Thank you for your feedback again, I would love to hear your advice on fans/case options on "tight" budget:)

And about this "gimmicky" motherboard, I found out that Krate edition means that it is black and white, and I think that's it. It was at discount atm, and there was cooler (probably useless) added, so that's why I picked that one. Should I stick with normal ones?

[Juraj]

It does look nice, I know :- ) The bundled cooler (103) could actually almost suffice you if you were not to overclock your CPU, but considering how easy that today is (one-click), you need better one. And that's the suggested Noctua tower. Pricey, but so well-worth it given its performance and silent acoustics, few contenders are worth considering only.
If you were budget price, then you can safely skip to basic A99 (SLI Plus) model from MSI and save another 30 or bucks, since you need neither that cooler from bundle, neither slightly altered featureset towards gaming.

Asus X99-A would be slightly more reliable board with better UEFI, but I don't have problem with the basic MSI. At least you will save some budget for the tower cooler and better case.

[David Males]

Ok, I will do so:)

One more question, from your point of view, it is better to buy more expensive processor and worse GPU or worse processor and better GPU ?
Let's say or 5960X + GTX760(maybe something better) or 5820 + GTX 970(980TI maybe) ? If the purpose was sole modeling and rendering?
 

[Juraj]

If the sole purpose was modelling and rendering in 3dsMax, then CPU would take all the precedence simply because how poorly 3dsMax viewport utilizes GPU acceleration. It's much better than before, the Nitrous viewport is all nice and smooth...relatively, but it comparatively sucks against pretty much any modern game engine on the market. It doesn't even care if your GPU is 750Ti or Titan-X. It won't tripple your FPS like games would...it would merely notice it by 20perc speedup... but it does care about the on-board memory because the scene still has to fit in in order to work smoothly, so 4GB memory is good choice no matter what price-level of GPU you will get.

Of course, 5960X and 750Ti would appear sort of strange...

Regarding high-end GPUs, they have their place elsewhere than accelerating DCC apps and Adobe Suite. It's gaming, working in game engines (like Unreal4), using GPU raytracers (like Octane, Redshift,etc..). That and that only.

Imho more universal, budget friendly workstation like 5820k+ GTX 970 is mora rational solution even if 5960X would be power-horse for rendering. Don't spend that kind of money on PC if you need to compromise.

[Jann]

As mentioned, get a good case - I'm all for Fractal Define R5 (have built in R4, XL R2 and they are great).
WD Purple is a no go for the reasons fkoehler said.
600w PSU might be a bit too low.

3dsmax viewport benefits from higher base clockspeed. At least that's how it is with the 700 series and older.
But within those 970 models any would be good, so pick that last depending on budget.
And don't buy lower 900 series. The 960 for example does terribly, much worse than 970, or older generation cards.
I'd even go as far as suggest getting the 5960x cpu, and just finding a used 660Ti, 670, 760 (100-150 euros). Viewport speeds will be similar as with 970, but the 8 core with proper cooling and OC will render significantly faster.
In the end, it all depends on local prices, budget and availability.

If your planning to buy from a specific local e-store, just link it. Makes it much easier to suggest parts that way ;)

[David Males]

https://www.alza.sk/EN/components/18852654.htm Here you go, I'm 80% sure I will use this e-store:) That's the one I already used screen from. If you have some spare time and find joy in this, feel free to suggest anything:) Thank you

One question, what do you guys think of water cooling of processor? Is it just overrated because it's new and cool? Or does it have advantage over air-based ones? For example the NZXT Kraken X61 ? Or this one : https://www.alza.sk/corsair-cooling-hydro-series-h105-d1638095.htm?catid=18849473 ?

Ok so now im here(pretty satisfied) :

Power-source :Fractal Design Integra M 650W - 85E
Motherboard: ASUS x99-A - 272E
Processor :  Intel Core i7-5820K - 422E
GPU : EVGA GeForce GTX970 FTW ACX 2.0 - 403E
RAM:  Kingston 32GB KIT DDR4 2666MHz CL15 HyperX Fury Black Series (4x8GB) - 223E
SSD disk:  Samsung 850 EVO 250GB - 110E
HDD:  WD Black 2000GB 64MB cache - 140E
Cooler: NOCTUA NH-D15 - 92E
Case : Fractal Design Define S - 86E

Altogether : 1840E

What do you guys think?

[Jann]

Ok so now im here(pretty satisfied) :

Power-source :Fractal Design Integra M 650W - 85E
Motherboard: ASUS x99-A - 272E
Processor :  Intel Core i7-5820K - 422E
GPU : EVGA GeForce GTX970 FTW ACX 2.0 - 403E
RAM:  Kingston 32GB KIT DDR4 2666MHz CL15 HyperX Fury Black Series (4x8GB) - 223E
SSD disk:  Samsung 850 EVO 250GB - 110E
HDD:  WD Black 2000GB 64MB cache - 140E
Cooler: NOCTUA NH-D15 - 92E
Case : Fractal Design Define S - 86E

Altogether : 1840E

What do you guys think?

Looks solid!
Only thing I'd change is PSU, something around 750w or more. But that's just me :)
All in one solutions like the Kraken X61 and H105 are good, and outperform air coolers when under higher overclocks. But overall the difference isn't that great and they are often louder, while costing much more.
So, if you don't plan to OC like crazy, the Noctua is a great cooler. And if you do decide to switch later, it won't be a problem to sell it off ;)

[tomislavn]

So, after reading this thread and checking his first spec for 2.3k euros and the last one for 1.8k, it looks to me that he will get noticeable performance loss in comparison for how much money he will save. I mean is 5820k vs 5930k and especially GTX970 vs GTX980TI worth it over saving merely 500 euros?

Nothing personal, but I would go with the first one :) with some small tweaks here and there (like SSD/case).

He could've changed the SSD, maybe the case also, replaced 5930k with 5820k, kept the 980Ti just in case for future and the price would still be around 2000e :)

[Juraj]

I also like it :- )

Hah, I didn't know Fractal brought S-version, one without optical bay slot. That's pretty damn cool of them. And now with proper support for water cooling.

I generally dislike CL water cooling, and specially the popular models like Corsair h1xx/,etc.. for being pretty loud while being only negligibly more effective at top performance compared to best air towers.
But I do personally like, and would try the Fractal one (S36), but I don't think that's available easy (looks like Alza has it for 170, ouch, and non-available, but they have S24 for 145 euro). That's the only close looper (and it's actually modular..hah) I like.

But I have by now 8 Noctua towers at home (from NH-D14 to D15, AH-14,etc..) and they're going super well, the oldest is 4 years now and still runs flawlessly and I never clean them even...


Given you buy from Alza.sk I am going to ask where you reside :-  )?

[Juraj]

it looks to me that he will get noticeable performance loss

No ;- ) Not even a little bit at all.

5930k with 5820k

The only difference between these two is effectively PCI-Lane (28 vs 40), and that...doesn't do shit, even if you run 4 GPUs, for which its meant. Even than, those PCI lanes perfectly suffice in practive.
5930k is ugly, unnecessary child. They overclock identically.

kept the 980Ti

So he could play Witcher 3 in best details :- ) ? I agree to that in such case, but if this is workstation, and budget is important, than this would be stupid choice. If he wants to focus on rendering and modelling with this PC for now, and doesn't want to spend 3K euro,
he definitely doesn't need it at all. There will be no performance difference in the task.
Much better upgrade would be first 512GB SSD (for the amount of software now, try installing whole AdobeSuite, Unreal4, etc.. and you will see 256 is nothing), another 2-3TB of HDD and then....just then....he could upgrade CPU and GPU.

[tomislavn]

I agree on the 5930k vs 5820k part absolutely. This is the point where he can save quite some money - also on the motherboard part.

But I would still keep 980Ti and come out with similar price to his final one, just to have it in case I decide to switch render engine or something (and to game of course ;D).

[Juraj]

But I would still keep 980Ti and come out with similar price to his final one, just to have it in in case I decide to switch render engine or something (and to game of course ;D).

4GB version of 970 is more than sufficient for high-end gaming and also real-time engines and raytracers. But yes, having the higher model would make it more universal but then again, you have to build with purpose and budget.
You definitely wouldn't come to similar price, 980Ti is 350-400 euro more expensive so he would have to sacrifice much more important components.

You don't need the best just for sake of future-proof. It's not any more future-proof anyway with next generation always around corner.

[tomislavn]

You definitely wouldn't come to similar price, 980Ti is 350-400 euro more expensive so he would have to sacrifice much more important components.

I meant that if he replaced 5930K for 5820K and got a bit cheaper motherboard for his first build (2300e) he would save enough to cover the price difference from 970 to 980Ti :) ...but then again he would need to go with a cheaper case, cheaper SSD and cheaper cooler compared to the last build (1840e).