Author Topic: Region render exposure issues..  (Read 8290 times)

2016-11-21, 12:31:03

Dollmaker

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Hi,

Every time i take region render over finished one I get these exposure issues.. Any idea how to fix this? Attached Screen below..

Thank you :)

2016-11-21, 13:12:54
Reply #1

maru

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Hi, can you explain what you are doing exactly? A step-by-step instruction would be great.
Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
3D Support Team Lead - Corona | contact us

2016-11-21, 14:59:20
Reply #2

Dollmaker

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Hi, can you explain what you are doing exactly? A step-by-step instruction would be great.

Hi Maru.. 1: I took a render 2: I wanted to make some changes to specific small area which i did.. 3: I selected region of that area and hit render again (clear vfb between renders were turned off) 3: newly rendered region looks more brighter  all though beauty pass in render elements looks ok..

Thanks..

2016-11-25, 08:28:04
Reply #3

Cheesemsmsm

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no one?
I want to know the solution too.

2016-11-25, 14:03:27
Reply #4

Noah45

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I had the same problem....(darkened area outside of region selected)

"Instead of 3ds Max region rendering, you can use Corona's regions. Just render image A, then region-select the area which you need to update (using the region icon in Corona's VFB), then change the material, and then render your image + denoise it. The newly rendered region will be denoised, and the area outside of the region will not disappear. " Marcin
Retail Illustrator  (for ever' 80's )
3DMax 2020/Corona Version: 6DB

2016-11-25, 14:45:01
Reply #5

romullus

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Does this happens in particular scene or in all your scenes?
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
My Models | My Videos | My Pictures

2016-11-26, 06:10:05
Reply #6

Cheesemsmsm

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Does this happens in particular scene or in all your scenes?

It happens from time to time.
In the same scene, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.
I've tried to reproduce, but no luck.

2016-11-26, 11:11:51
Reply #7

romullus

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I see. Ok, i think i'll move this topic to bugs reporting board. If anyone has reproducible scene, please upload it here: https://corona-renderer.com/upload/ and leave message about that in this topic.
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
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2016-11-26, 16:44:35
Reply #8

gabyanz

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This happened to me today.

I made a render of a whole image. stopped.

Used the max's render region, then stopped.

the "non region" suddently changed exposure, becoming darker.

Then, when I launched "resume last render" with the max's render region off, the exposure was corrected again.


2016-12-07, 14:18:07
Reply #9

maru

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This https://corona-renderer.com/bugs/view.php?id=2290 was fixed some time ago, maybe it will also affect this behavior? I'll try reproducing this once the new daily build is out.
Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
3D Support Team Lead - Corona | contact us

2016-12-16, 12:39:24
Reply #10

supersmile2009

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Hi!

I can confirm that this bug is still present on Corona 1.5.2, because it was driving me crazy whole day yesterday.
I'm just learning Corona and at first I thought that I was doing something wrong. I tried all possible combinations of exposure control - Simple, Photographic, CoronaCameraMod - all of them seem to be broken.

And the core reason for this, as far as I understand, is this weird MSI related stuff. I have no idea why did you have to program it that way, but this kind of behavior effectively destroys the whole idea of "on-the-fly" exposure control in some cases.
The side-effect of MSI behavior from the link above is unpredictable and unrealistic lighting and exposure in some cases and completely unusable interactive renderer.

NOTE: Bug is present with default MSI = 20, and other values except 0. With MSI = 0 everything seems to be OK (or difference is not that significant, I didn't investigate it deeper)

So here is basically what happens and how to reproduce all of this:
You need an interior scene with window covered with a curtain. It will make your scene pretty dark and you'll need to compensate it with Exposure. Curtain is translucent, which makes it main source of lighting.

Production/Interactive Render + Simple Exposure
1. Render an image with Exposure = 0
2. Stop rendering.
3. Adjust Exposure to about +2.5...3 in Corona VFB
3.a. Not necessary: At this moment man might decide to adjust something and re-render region or the whole image. But this is not necessary to reproduce the bug.
4. Select region OR save current image for future comparison OR just remember overall image brightness (the difference will be very noticeable).
5. Don't touch the Exposure, leave it as it was set in step 3. Render again.
6. New rendered image (or region) will have almost the same brightness as in step 1, despite the fact that now you have Exposure of +2.5...3, not 0!
This effect has tendency to build up. Just bump up exposure to ~6, to get brightness as in step 3. Stop, render again - and you're back again to underexposed image from step 1! Now you need to increase exposure to ~9. You have to reset Exposure to 0 every time before rendering to avoid it, otherwise constant increasing of Exposure will lead to light clamping (image #7).

Interactive Render + Simple Exposure
1. Start rendering with Exposure = 0
2. Adjust Exposure to about +2.5...3 in Corona VFB
2.a. Add render region for easier comparison
3. Change something in the scene/material
4. Corona restarts interactive render because some changes were made. Brightness of the current render region becomes the same as in step 1.

Interactive Render + Photographic Exposure
Same as previous case. Instead of step 3 adjust some camera setting (e. g. ISO in CoronaCameraMod). Exposure of image in VFB changes, but after a moment Corona restarts interactive render (because adjusting camera settings is considered a change to a scene) - and you get the same image with that "default" exposure. No matter which exposure settings you use - realistic or ridiculously high/low - it will refresh VFB and show you the same exposure.


P.S. I was doing some tests while writing this post. Seems like it just clamps very bright secondary GI because of MSI, therefore making the picture darker every time. And the more you increase exposure - the more light will be cut out by MSI.
Here are some quick interactive renders.

1. Initial EV=0. After render EV=0, Highlight Compression(HC)=1
2. Initial EV=0. After render EV=2.5, HC=2.5
3. Initial EV=2.5. After render EV=2.5, HC=2.5
4. Initial EV=2.5. After render EV=4.5, HC=4
5. Initial EV=4.5. After render EV=4.5, HC=4
6. Initial EV=4.5. After render EV=6.5, HC=4
7. Initial EV=10. After render EV=10, HC=9

My main source of light in this scene is Corona Sun + Sky (mostly sky). But it passes through translucent curtain, making this curtain main source of light for the room. Clamping the brightness of this curtain leads to completely unpredictable and unrealistic results, as you can see on picture 7, where bumping up EV effectively killed natural lighting and reduced its brightness to a lower level than a 450 lumen light bulbs.

As I understand having some "initial exposure" is essential for MSI to work. In that case user should be able either to lock this initial exposure at some standard value (e. g. EV = 0) in each particular scene or there should be a separate option for initial EV, which can be set manually by user and which will be completely independent from Postprocessing Exposure. Otherwise you get unpredictable lighting behavior and exposure in each render in scenes where secondary GI lighting is the main source of lighting.

I know that using such lighting is slow and it can be faked with invisible light planes etc., but using Corona we are talking about maximum realism, don't we? But what is more important - the fact that current Corona's behavior is counter-intuitive and produces unpredictable results.

2016-12-16, 18:09:13
Reply #11

Dionysios.TS

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Confirm, happened to me today as well!

2016-12-17, 13:01:20
Reply #12

supersmile2009

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I've looked through other threads on this forum and found this one.
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php/topic,11959.0.html

The same issue from Corona 1.4. And it is definitely because of different initial exposures and MSI, since the issue is not present with MSI=0.

Devs, please, stop saying that it is EXPECTED behavior. It can be expected only by a developer of the rendering algorithm, but it's a obvious bug from a normal user's point of view. Regular user expects to get the same image with each render and isn't going to remember and reset exposure before each render. The help page describing this issue as a "feature" is not a proper way of solving it. This issue occurs in much more cases than you probably think of. And what is more important, as I mentioned before - it totally ruins interactive render, which becomes almost completely unusable.

An option for setting initial EV manually (independently from postprocessing/VFB exposure) in render settings will solve this issue once and for all. And current Exposure setting should do what it explicitly says - change postprocessing exposure, not some pre-rendering settings.

2016-12-17, 19:24:52
Reply #13

Cheesemsmsm

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Thanks supersmile!! now I can reproduce it.
It's just a simple scene, box with hole + coronasun + sky
This is what I did;

> render with ev -1
> stop
> adjust ev to +1
> region render (Max's region)
> adjust ev back to -1 to see the result



Then I don't change anything. Just render the same region with -1
But as you can see, it still not perfect.



I agree with supersmile. It would be great if it can be fixed. But if not, at least I know how to avoid it :)
« Last Edit: 2016-12-17, 19:39:11 by Cheesemsmsm »

2017-02-14, 11:30:54
Reply #14

maru

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Sorry for getting to this so late.
I can confirm that there is a drastic difference between the renders when using a curtain with translucency used. The issue is not so apparent when the curtain is removed. I think this is indeed the "expected" (sorry) behavior caused by MSI, but maybe there is something we could do about it. Reported on mantis: https://corona-renderer.com/bugs/view.php?id=2479
Marcin Miodek | chaos-corona.com
3D Support Team Lead - Corona | contact us