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General Category => Gallery => Topic started by: racoonart on 2013-12-05, 15:17:10

Title: Cathedral Animation
Post by: racoonart on 2013-12-05, 15:17:10
I'll have to tell a bit more about the project, so please be patient ;) ..

I started with the Project back in 2010 and originally it was just meant as a "test" for fragmenting and finally collapsing the whole building. The "simplicity" of the Architecture was the key reason why I chose this Cathedral but unfortunately lead to many frustration moments when I tried to make a contrasty and beautiful lighting - the cathedral is a nightmare if you want to render several shots with one lightsetup. Each and every piece of the base stone structure is modelled water tight and ready to be fragmented (which is why this was way more difficult to do than it would have been without the fragmenting idea in mind).
Anyways, after many render tests in Vray I had to admit that it was simply impossible to render animations in reasonable time and quality - not even speaking about moving objects and collapsing geometry.
The many rather little windows in this church and the "bounce-light-only"-archs on ground level made it very hard for biased methods do deliver a good quality result... and that's where corona finally comes into place ;)
I tried a lot of different renderers with the scene but none of them were able to render it in a satisfying time.
Some time last year I discovered Corona and made a few very encouraging tests which then were the reason why I made the Corona Converter Script ;-) .
And besides that... Corona is the only other renderer (compared to Vray, MR, fR) which is able to use the native max maps and is not using some shitty exporter or a custom material editor.

Some data:
each Frame rendered ~3 hours on dual Xeon e5 2620 @2.0 Ghz + 30mins for the fog stuff, all in 1080p
[edit] Just to clarify: do not render the fogtrick with the beauty render, it will take a lot of time that way. Do it in a seperate scene if you must have it ;)

my own opinion what I could have done better:
- floor material, but unfortunately Corona is not yet supporting everything I need.
- the Stone shaders (somehow they don't really look well..)
- a fresh view on the scene :D I really got blind to any problems since I'm working on it for years now
- the models are outdated, I would do some things a lot different today.
- compositing: oh my... don't get me started ;)
- AA flickering on the reflecting parts (more a technical problem though)

Anyways, hope you like it :)

P.S.: Watch in 1080p!



Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: astudio on 2013-12-05, 15:18:12
Wow!
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Zukumeka on 2013-12-05, 15:56:24
very cool happened, and how to make the fog?
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: daniel.reutersward on 2013-12-05, 16:05:26
Amazing! Just wish the animation were longer :)
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Coronaut on 2013-12-05, 16:09:07
Jaw dropped to the ground, magnificent.
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Booker on 2013-12-05, 16:13:06
very nice, Martin.
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Ludvik Koutny on 2013-12-05, 16:13:43
Now THAT, is COOL!
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: racoonart on 2013-12-05, 16:14:19
Thanks guys! Glad you like it :)

very cool happened, and how to make the fog?
It's a very nasty trick ;)
http://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php/topic,276

Amazing! Just wish the animation were longer :)
Me too :D But I don't have much time to do a longer animation right now and the render times of 3h a frame are not so much helpful either ;) Those 3 shots are intended for our new reel, that's why it's so short atm.
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: daniel.reutersward on 2013-12-05, 16:19:03
Hehe I understand! Anyways really nice animation :) Just wondering, is there anything specific one should think about when making an animation with Corona? (sorry if this have been said before)
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Juraj on 2013-12-05, 16:28:50
It's amazing :- ).
I once modelled a cathedral as well, for college class, but my teacher did not appreciated the 3D much and failed me :- D (it was 2 days before I decided to quit school, and this was one of the reasons). I loved the experience though.

If you don't mind, can you post some wires of the models :- ) ? Not for anything particular to see, I just enjoy the modelling aspect of these structures, for me it's almost art by itself.
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: racoonart on 2013-12-05, 16:51:25
Just wondering, is there anything specific one should think about when making an animation with Corona? (sorry if this have been said before)

For animations I try to get the best balance of AA, pt and light samples. That means balancing the pt and lt multipliers is an essential part of my settings. The default is fine most of the time but if things get ugly (like the cathedral with those little windows) you need to be aware that direct lighting can be a way bigger problem than GI. In my Scene I have the multipliers at 40 for pt and 18 for light (this is NOT a new default for everyone to use blindly!).
The important thing to remember here is that the noise always has it's origin somewhere, be it direct lighting or GI or AA and that can be easily seen in the respective Render elements (directlighting and DiffuseGI).
Concerning AA: if lt and pt look fine you can try to optimize AA - that means less pt and lt per pass. Instead of 40 / 18 I try 20 / 9, which means double AA in the same time.

Another important thing: Don't mess with MSI. 20 is really a good default and you should only set it higher if there's a clear reason for it. I actually try setting it lower if I can - but 20 is pretty good already.

It's amazing :- ).
I once modelled a cathedral as well, for college class, but my teacher did not appreciated the 3D much and failed me :- D (it was 2 days before I decided to quit school, and this was one of the reasons). I loved the experience though.

If you don't mind, can you post some wires of the models :- ) ? Not for anything particular to see, I just enjoy the modelling aspect of these structures, for me it's almost art by itself.
Haha! yes, not everyone likes modelled cathedrals (I tend to be part of this group of people now :P )
Here you go, some wireframes (not that spectacular I fear)
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Juraj on 2013-12-05, 17:12:10
wow now I know what you mean by "watertight", it's much less pieces than I thought. When I modelled it, I used lot of sweeps over splines, but this is ton harder, much respect.
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: RolandB on 2013-12-05, 17:19:03
No voice... wao this is a master and amazing work ! And what result !
Thanks to share it and explain the way you've produced that.
Congratulations
Roland
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: naikku on 2013-12-05, 17:31:07
Ok I feel a bit stupid also to ask but.
The glare on the organ pipes? Can that be done in Corona or is it post?

yees yees yees nice model and a very nice animation :)
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: maru on 2013-12-05, 17:32:42
Damn, I was expecting the fragmentation! :D

Amazing work! Proves that Corona can be used for RPG cinematics. ;)

Quote
each Frame rendered ~3 hours on dual Xeon e5 2620 @2.0 Ghz + 30mins for the fog stuff, all in 1080p
Did you somehow render the faked fog independently?

Quote
I have the multipliers at 40 for pt and 18 for light
What did the light samples multiplier change? There doesn't seem to be much visible direct light...
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Juraj on 2013-12-05, 17:38:03


Amazing work! Proves that Corona can be used for RPG cinematics. ;)



Hah, I thought the same inside head :- D Waited if it turns into something Blizzard/Blur likes.
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: daniel.reutersward on 2013-12-05, 17:43:55

For animations I try to get the best balance of AA, pt and light samples. That means balancing the pt and lt multipliers is an essential part of my settings. The default is fine most of the time but if things get ugly (like the cathedral with those little windows) you need to be aware that direct lighting can be a way bigger problem than GI. In my Scene I have the multipliers at 40 for pt and 18 for light (this is NOT a new default for everyone to use blindly!).
The important thing to remember here is that the noise always has it's origin somewhere, be it direct lighting or GI or AA and that can be easily seen in the respective Render elements (directlighting and DiffuseGI).
Concerning AA: if lt and pt look fine you can try to optimize AA - that means less pt and lt per pass. Instead of 40 / 18 I try 20 / 9, which means double AA in the same time.

Another important thing: Don't mess with MSI. 20 is really a good default and you should only set it higher if there's a clear reason for it. I actually try setting it lower if I can - but 20 is pretty good already.

Thank you for the pointers regarding animation settings! :)
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: prin on 2013-12-05, 17:48:29
Wow Wow Wow!!!
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: racoonart on 2013-12-05, 18:40:02
Thanks again for all the comments! :)

The glare on the organ pipes? Can that be done in Corona or is it post?
It's postwork. It's made with several layered glows :)
But if you were using Vray before you can use Vrays post effects with corona (..if you really want to)


Damn, I was expecting the fragmentation! :D
I stopped working with Thinking particles years ago so I don't really believe it will happen but.. who knows ;)
Did you somehow render the faked fog independently?
It's rendered independently (and I recommend to do that!). If you render it with the beauty it will take a lot more time and make everything way more complicated. It's rendered in a separate file with black geometry, disabled GI and optimized settings.
What did the light samples multiplier change? There doesn't seem to be much visible direct light...
The direct light includes the whole skylight from outside, not just the sun, so it's very important for the scene (see the attached image).


Amazing work! Proves that Corona can be used for RPG cinematics. ;)
Hah, I thought the same inside head :- D Waited if it turns into something Blizzard/Blur likes.
I'd really appreciate to see more game/animation stuff done with Corona ;) Unfortunately 95% of the gallery stuff is Archviz only
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Polymax on 2013-12-05, 22:15:43
Really proffesional work. Very cool!
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: chilombiano on 2013-12-05, 23:43:53
Hats off. Great work. I find myself modelling a little church these days and man they are a pain in the ass.
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: skinny_santa on 2013-12-06, 05:59:00
devil may cry :D
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: rafpug on 2013-12-07, 20:56:14
Hello Dead

Perfect! sehr schön.

It would be nice is a short video tutorial on how to get to create this effect volumetric

Regard
Raf
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: racoonart on 2013-12-07, 21:19:24
I really appreciate all of your comments guys! Thanks for commenting :)

It would be nice is a short video tutorial on how to get to create this effect volumetric

very cool happened, and how to make the fog?
It's a very nasty trick ;)
http://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php/topic,276

There's not really much more to it than what is already said in the Topic linked above ;) It's just a plane with motion blur and some white material + translucency for backlight. If you don't need it immediately I would recommend to wait for Keymasters implementation of participating media, because - as i said above - it's a very nasty trick and that's why I don't want to do a tutorial about it.
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: frebel on 2013-12-08, 22:07:16
Amazing work man, nice see some animations using corona !!!
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Alex Abarca on 2014-03-02, 00:18:43
Can you show us your lighting set up? and also some Raw renders? I would like to see how you got from RAW to post. Thank you, great work.
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: claudiostacciarini on 2014-03-03, 19:53:47
Really amazing, thanks for share!
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: racoonart on 2014-03-03, 21:20:50
Thanks for your comments!

Can you show us your lighting set up? and also some Raw renders? I would like to see how you got from RAW to post. Thank you, great work.
Lightsetup ended up being pretty simple (although I experimented several months with it). It's just a CoronaSun and an Hdri (attachment).
I also attached a full size raw render :)
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Juraj on 2014-03-04, 01:18:56
Ha, interesting, the Raw looks so real :- ) Maybe different post strategy could ensue dramatic look without compromising the realism which was slightly lost in the original post (even though it then looked like awesome cinematic). Can't really tell what, just what came to my mind.
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Alex Abarca on 2014-03-04, 05:09:29
This is a Masterpiece Mr. Deadclown, did you do it? How about a break down video? you think you can whip one up?
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: racoonart on 2014-03-04, 10:40:07
Ha, interesting, the Raw looks so real :- ) Maybe different post strategy could ensue dramatic look without compromising the realism which was slightly lost in the original post (even though it then looked like awesome cinematic). Can't really tell what, just what came to my mind.
*sigh* Yes, I always overdo my postwork. I like the cinematic look but it always gets cinematic somehow when I'm experimenting ;) Maybe I should ask someone else to try it. I guess I also tend to use the same kind of tools and approaches every time, so no surprise it always looks the same ;)

This is a Masterpiece Mr. Deadclown, did you do it? How about a break down video? you think you can whip one up?
Thanks! Yes, I did it (at least most of it, my colleagues helped me out with some assets). What would you like to see in the break down? I'm really not sure what would be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Ondra on 2014-03-04, 13:09:59
yes, do eeet! ;) I can host it on the corona website
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Alex Abarca on 2014-03-04, 19:17:06
This is a Masterpiece Mr. Deadclown, did you do it? How about a break down video? you think you can whip one up?
Thanks! Yes, I did it (at least most of it, my colleagues helped me out with some assets). What would you like to see in the break down? I'm really not sure what would be interesting to see.
[/quote]

I don't know what you used for post, but I am assuming you used aftereffects. What would be cool to see is the layers you stacked on, and how you adjusted your color sat, contrast and everything. I know you included the wires in here but it would be cool to see those running in the video. Last and not least the epic fog you have going on in the scene.

Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Emmanuel Turquin on 2014-04-14, 11:51:06
Ohh, what a surprise it was to recognize the cathedral from my hometown (Laon, in France)!! This is an unbelievable model, and beautiful renders too, bravo Mr. DeadClown!!
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: racoonart on 2014-04-14, 13:20:30
Ohh, what a surprise it was to recognize the cathedral from my hometown (Laon, in France)!! This is an unbelievable model, and beautiful renders too, bravo Mr. DeadClown!!

Oh, how cool is that! I always wanted to see the cathedral with my own eyes, not just crappy photo reference :D So I guess you've found many things where the model differs from reality ;) Greetings to France!
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: Emmanuel Turquin on 2014-04-14, 15:17:08
So I guess you've found many things where the model differs from reality

Well no actually, it is very faithful! I've left the city almost 20 years ago, and only go back from time to time, and yet I almost instantly recognized it (although I couldn't believe it at first, since even in France Laon is not a well known city at all)! How comes you picked this cathedral in particular?
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: racoonart on 2014-04-14, 15:38:08
How comes you picked this cathedral in particular?

I guess it was pure coincidence. I didn't search for anything particular at first. I only knew that I needed some church or cathedral reference for testing purposes (first I only wanted to model some few parts for a physics simulation). Then I stumbled upon Laon and thought it would be relatively easy to do (which didn't turn out to be true :D ). The cathedral itself was not so hard to build but it was surprisingly difficult to light and render it - that's were Corona came into play.
Btw, Laon itself may not be known very well, but from what I learned while searching for reference material, the cathedral is kind of unique in this stylistic period and therefore often shown as an example in books and universities.
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: hemrie on 2014-05-03, 22:33:27
Really nice work.
Title: Re: Cathedral Animation
Post by: ragnakim on 2014-05-06, 11:51:58
very very nice. no noise. congrats