Author Topic: Daily Builds 1.0 - 1.4  (Read 244697 times)

2016-04-13, 23:39:55
Reply #1215

FrostKiwi

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Just don't make fallof as the only option, please - hard edged region should exist too.
No reason for a checkbox, a simple slider covers it all. 0% would be the default and would do hard edges only, like always.
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2016-04-14, 00:01:06
Reply #1216

Ondra

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yeah, currently it seems that the current option combined with falloff slider could cover all the bases...
Rendering is magic.How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2016-04-14, 02:14:03
Reply #1217

Ludvik Koutny

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Region with falloff would be ridiculous overcomplication of something so simple. A falloff value for region? Really people? Can you imagine newbies or people who migrate from other renders cope with it? What if it would be used on frame where there's nothing rendered yet? It would fade to black? You would constantly have to mess with falloff value. V-Ray's solution of VFB region + brush option is a lot more logical. If you want to render region to preview a small area, you use region. If you want to selectively converge part of the image without sharp transition, you use brush.

2016-04-14, 02:51:06
Reply #1218

antanas

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I would vote for a brush with a falloff but just a simple brush will do as well ))

2016-04-14, 15:31:16
Reply #1219

Rotem

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Region with falloff would be ridiculous overcomplication of something so simple. A falloff value for region? Really people?

Why stop there? Let's do editable brush shapes and tablet pressure sensitivity! Actually, just implement Photoshop's brush editor and be done with it. :)

2016-04-14, 15:33:06
Reply #1220

Ludvik Koutny

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Region with falloff would be ridiculous overcomplication of something so simple. A falloff value for region? Really people?

Why stop there? Let's do editable brush shapes and tablet pressure sensitivity! Actually, just implement Photoshop's brush editor and be done with it. :)

No, I meant basically same thing as V-Ray's follow mouse cursor in progressive mode. It has absolutely no settings, and no one requested any as far as I can remember.

2016-04-14, 15:43:48
Reply #1221

romullus

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I'm not familiar with vray, but i always thought that follow cursor is just a gimmick feature, a toy for bored ones. Seriously, who will have time and patience to guide mouse pointer over areas that needs to be refined? When you talked about raybrush, i imagined something like live mask painting directly in VFB - you paint crude mask where more samples are needed and go for other things, Corona does the rest. That implementation i'd love to see. But if it'll be just dumb follow cursor option, then i'll stick with regular region, me think.
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
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2016-04-14, 15:52:55
Reply #1222

Juraj

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I'm not familiar with vray, but i always thought that follow cursor is just a gimmick feature, a toy for bored ones. Seriously, who will have time and patience to guide mouse pointer over areas that needs to be refined? When you talked about raybrush, i imagined something like live mask painting directly in VFB - you paint crude mask where more samples are needed and go for other things, Corona does the rest. That implementation i'd love to see. But if it'll be just dumb follow cursor option, then i'll stick with regular region, me think.

Manual adaptivity using Photoshop "quick mask" :- ) ?
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2016-04-14, 16:16:11
Reply #1223

Ludvik Koutny

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Seriously, who will have time and patience to guide mouse pointer over areas that needs to be refined?

How is that different to dragging small region over areas you need to be refined, like in video above? It's the same thing.

The only difference is that region will leave sharp transition between it's contents and surroundings while brush won't. And if we have to add one more UI element to VFB, it makes a lot more sense for it to be brush button, than spinner with region falloff radius.


2016-04-14, 16:33:38
Reply #1224

Ondra

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why is UI always such huge flamebait...?
Rendering is magic.How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2016-04-14, 16:35:04
Reply #1225

Rotem

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No, I meant basically same thing as V-Ray's follow mouse cursor in progressive mode. It has absolutely no settings, and no one requested any as far as I can remember.
That was sarcasm if it was unclear. I agree that this should be as simple as possible, and that VRay's implementation is a good example.

2016-04-14, 17:15:56
Reply #1226

romullus

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why is UI always such huge flamebait...?

Probably that's because it's a part of software, that user see and uses most often.

Seriously, who will have time and patience to guide mouse pointer over areas that needs to be refined?

How is that different to dragging small region over areas you need to be refined, like in video above? It's the same thing.

The only difference is that region will leave sharp transition between it's contents and surroundings while brush won't. And if we have to add one more UI element to VFB, it makes a lot more sense for it to be brush button, than spinner with region falloff radius.

It's not big deal if your region takes only 5 seconds to be fully refined. Would it work the same in complex interior scene, or even worse with heavy DOF and / or MB and those nasty bokeh firflights? I don't think i'd want to guide that region for 20 minutes over VFB.
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2016-04-14, 17:46:10
Reply #1227

Ludvik Koutny

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It's not big deal if your region takes only 5 seconds to be fully refined. Would it work the same in complex interior scene, or even worse with heavy DOF and / or MB and those nasty bokeh firflights? I don't think i'd want to guide that region for 20 minutes over VFB.

Yes, why shouldn't it? And you don't have to guide anything, you can just leave the cursor there. And you can also always use the region. I just don't get your point.

Here's quite exaggerated scenario (strong Dof, 50% glossy metal, sun disc):

2016-04-14, 17:54:02
Reply #1228

Juraj

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Well with that video you basically proved him to be correct, that's nonsense workflow. What he is gonna do, leave it at each spot for few minutes, go for coffee, return, move cursor to other spot and repeat ?

i imagined something like live mask painting directly in VFB

Painting an actual mask solves that. You would paint your cursor at each of those spots and then leave and let it render. It would sample all those positions, not just actual one where the cursor is. He can't use region for it since that would require multiple lasso regions with falloff.
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2016-04-14, 18:05:10
Reply #1229

Ludvik Koutny

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Well with that video you basically proved him to be correct, that's nonsense workflow. What he is gonna do, leave it at each spot for few minutes, go for coffee, return, move cursor to other spot and repeat ?

i imagined something like live mask painting directly in VFB

Painting an actual mask solves that. You would paint your cursor at each of those spots and then leave and let it render. It would sample all those positions, not just actual one where the cursor is. He can't use region for it since that would require multiple lasso regions with falloff.

I made a promise to myself to never react to anything you post, and I've successfully lasted for about a year now, but now I will have to break it. Hopefully, I will be able to keep it up for another year afterwards.

A, the entire image is not nearly converged, it has not even one pass finished. What would be point of using region or brush to selectively converge the image if you would end up covering the entire frame? Practical scenario would be that most of the image is perfectly clean, and some of the highlights are 80% converged, but still a bit noisy around edges, that would not take nearly as much time to clean up as raw render that just started.

B, Okay, let's say we would have ability to paint those areas. Just the sole idea of painting something, and adjusting it during renders require at the bare minimum this amount of new UI elements:
1, Enable brush button
2, Brush size
3, Eraser to remove accidentally painted area
4, Something to toggle view of painted mask
5, Something to erase all the painted stuff with one click

So yeah, let's throw another 5 buttons inside of VFB, entire painting set.

C, While I mentioned use for selective convergence, that's not the primary use of this. Primary use of this is a boost of feedback, You need to see how, say, a lamp looks in your interior, so you quickly hover over it to clean noise there first. It's faster and less clumsy than dragging region around.

Adaptivity should be responsible for noise being even across entire image, so if there are noise hotspots, you should want adaptivity improvements, not complex toolset to "work around" the problem. If Corona did not have any MSI, and most of the renders would contain at the very least few random super bright fireflies on your image, would you be requesting something like MSI, or a complete retouching brush toolself for CoronaVFB? Think about animation. Will you be sitting there waiting for each frame to pop up so you can paint a mask?