Gallery request: Split the Gallery into Commercial and Personal sections

[snakebox]

As topic says.

I see more and more really great images, and the comments on them are nice, but always has some, what if you did this, and it would be nicer if you did this etc.
People comments and opinions are always great... BUT! I'm pretty sure everyone here who works in arch viz for living knows that often, you just simply have to do what the clients wants.

I think it would add a lot more value to the images and the gallery if you know what to expect.  There is often a huuuge difference in time spend, testing etc between commercial images and personal projects, and it would, hopefully, give more productive and constructive feedback too.

Please be aware I'm not trying to start a fight of which is better, purely want to state that I think they are just as, if not more, different as the WIP and the Gallery section is.

Just my thoughts! as I would love to be able to browse through images I know for a fact, are commercial images...

[Mr.Schorsch]

I think that is a really good idea.  I always ask myself, if all these beautiful images are client based jobs or private stuff. And if these were jobs, how fast or efficient, do you guys work... or (even worse) is there dumping going on... Usually most of the architectural clients don't pay for freakin awesome quality (they whant it.. buts that's another thing to talk about)

[Ondra]

It might sound harsh, but I think better solution is to just not post images of inferior quality. The volume of works in Corona gallery is astounding, so there is no reason to post everything there - why not post just works that will be of value to others

[Mr.Schorsch]

Hi Ondra. Jupp.. you are right about the outstanding quality in the forum. But I think a beautiful designed image is not everything. In commercial work, big parts of the beauty, are based on efficient work combined with the best result achievable in the time and money the client gives you. .. It's hart to say exactly what I goes through my mind.

The thing is, that commercial work might not ALWAYS look that awesome but everybody will understand that.
I did really cool commercial stuff witch corona (thank you very much for that) and I think it would not lower the quality of the forum. (There are already some minor quality images in the forum)  I think, it would just be a good thing to compare yourself with other artist in terms of workspeed and quality outcome.

[Juraj]

Two random thoughts on topic in general:

1)   Some people offer advice when none was asked for. Posting image purely for showing of is completely OK, and people should learn it. Forum gallery isn't necessary for critique process, that's what WIP section is for.
 If someone asks for CC in gallery, that's great, but don't go around offering advice because you think those people want to hear it. (guilty, learned my lesson)

2) Some people don’t understand that posting is only worth when you have something outside of ordinary. No one is interested in your 5 minute random exercise or your every single job you did this month. Just learn to self-curate your own work.

Although commercial works has often harsh constraints, that is all your problem. The end result, is always what matters. If your commercial work is shitty for whatever reason it is, just keep it to yourself. Plenty of people manage to create phenomenal work in commercial environment, problem obviously lies elsewhere.

Being ambivalent about the nature of work can be deceiving and I would always welcome if people state the purpose, nature and scope of the work. Not just “Hey, look at this purdy image I did”. Then people can judge for themselves if that information is useful in evaluating the work.
Dividing work in categories based on constrains is poor bandage like solution.

[Mr.Schorsch]

 Juraj Talcik, that was not what I meant. "Posting every shitty Commercial Project, done last month"

I totally agree on you, that not every image is worth posting, because it is just a 5 min 3d scribble. BUT... and that is what I tried to say, There is a difference between commercial work and private work. This starts with the object shown on the image. BUT, this does not mean, that the commercial work is uglier or not worth showing. Private work always benefits from the time you are able to spend on it ( propping, modelling extra detail stuff ... doing details and dof shots)

All in all it would be great to see, what kind of jobs other artists work on and what results they are able to achieve in a certain amount of time. The studio I worked in until last summer, had interns whom believed, that doing 3d is painting images like an artist and just do what you want because they will like it anyway.

Right now I am doing industrial photography and use corona as the renderer. These images are not beautiful like blue hour shots from freaked out architecture ore baroque interiors, but they have their own beauty in the materials and lighting. And for stuff like this it would be cool to have a work section.

I am a member in a 2d forum. There they have a commercial work topic and it works really well and it does not feel wrong or like a bandage.

OK.. I agree, that this is the corona forum, not the just show your random 3d work forum. Ondra and the other guys have better things to do than managing stuff like this.

Btw Juraj. Maybe it is me, reading it like this, but  you have a very harsh way of commenting. Maybe people could feel offended by it.

[littlecb]

I think that is a really good idea.

รู้ลึก รู้จริงเรื่อง วิเคราะห์แม่น เรื่องฟุตบอลที่นี่ที่เดียว วิเคราะห์บอล

[Juraj]

...

Then if you feel the feedback is inadequate given the purpose of the work, simply ignore it. Just write "Given commercial purpose of the work and restraints I couldn't attend to such details" :- )
That is still no need to divide the work into category. You need to shield yourself.

Because the next thing someone will ask is to divide into 'Big studio commercial', 'Small studio commercial', 'Freelancer', because the further you go, the smaller is the work scope capable.
None of the best 3D forums on web have such division, most even democratizied the curating. ( Cgsociety, Polycount, CGArchitect, Chaosgroup forum, etc... )

Regarding harsch, it is what it is.

[burnin]

Totally agree with Ondra & Juraj...
Gallery is only one, so make it worth.
To those that only seek attention, my thoughts go: Don't spam, strive for perfection... practice, exercise, Work In Progress.
I too have stopped advising with creative criticism & taking it seriously, don't need to know all excuses for why works suck.

[Ondra]

well it is kinda rude implying somebody here is "only seeking attention"...

[juang3d]

Personally I don't like galleries where onlye quality work is published, people that is starting has the right to be seen, to be criticized and have the right to improve their work, and a gallery in a forum is the perfect place to do this, if you want a more exclusive gallery you always have the website gallery where only selected images will be published, so a forum is a forum, and IMHO everyone whould have the rigth to publish whaever they want, and if they think a project they are doing is finished even when we may think it's bad or unfinished, I think they deserve to publish it because probably is done with a lot of effort and trying their best, so if you don't like it don't answer to the thread or don't look at it, but IMHO if you want an elitistic gallery go to 3dtotal and enjoy the gallery, a bit boring IMHO.

Also there is nothing wrong in seeking for attention if you are a newbie, most of the time the only way to improve yourself is hearing what others sincerily think about your work because your mother just knows how to say "it's beautiful, it's great! my son/daughter it's a genious!" when you know it's not true and it's not useful at all hehehe.

Just my personal point of view.

However a diferentation between proffesionaly work and personal work could be good, but not neccessary im my opinion, in the end I've seen A LOT of proffesional projects that were ugly, including some of mine, you know, budget, time or client... so this is no guarantee of quality at all.

Cheers.

[Ondra]

Well the only "rule" I want to impose on Corona gallery is: "if you post, be prepared to hear fair opinions, including criticism".

[Ludvik Koutny]

Only thing this would lead to would be people pointing and other people's work saying "It looks so good because it's a personal project. If it was commercial project, i bet it would look as shitty as my works do, because clients bla bla bla time budget bla bla changes, bla bla money bla."

If something doesn't look good, then simply don't publish it. Only reasons to publish works i see are:

- Showing off your work to attract new clients

- Showing your work to get some feedback and implement it

- Showing off to let people know you've improved your skills

- Just getting some general publicity

Works that are bad will not have any of the effects above. Publishing them has simply no value for the viewers, so posting them is kind of pointless. And it has no value for you either, since commercial works are usually already done and handed to clients, so you cant use feedback to make appropriate changes.

Only thing they could show is that you can pump out a lot of mediocre stuff quite quickly. But that's what most of the people do these days.

Seriously, artwork done in spare time is no less valuable, and in the same way, working on something commercially does not add any value to it as an artwork. There is absolutely no need to differ between them.

[burnin]

do what makes you satisfied
Enjoy

[snakebox]

It might sound harsh, but I think better solution is to just not post images of inferior quality. The volume of works in Corona gallery is astounding, so there is no reason to post everything there - why not post just works that will be of value to others

This has nothing to do with quality! at all !

It's purely because we know the real world affects how the actual end result is, and its very rarely what the BEST result have you had 100% freedom and 4 times the time to do it.  It's a lot more impressive to look at a great images, knowing its commercial, than just a great image that any student could have spend 3 month on.

[juang3d]

"Bad, unfinished, lacking In" this evaluation is completely subjective, so something that is bad for you is good for the artist that made it, something that may be unfinished to you may be finished for the artist that made it, and something that lacks some other thing for you may be complete for the artist that made it.

IMO a gallery is a gallery, where things are showed off, and the only person that can judge if something can be published is the very same artist that did that thing, who is the one that is going to judge when something is good or is bad?
Also something can be bad for an experienced artist but good for a newbie.

IMO an artist is someone that creates something, not someone with a master degree in aaaaaall the theory of painting, photography, etc... Anyone could be an artist, and it's our very own task to decide if something is art for us or not, if you know ARCO, for me 99% of that is crap, but a lot of people think that it's art and pays a lot of money for that art, who am I to judge if the things in ARCO are art or crap for anyone else than me?

All the names you used to substitute the word gallery are synonym to the word gallery, a gallery is just that, this is not the gallery of perfection, who is going to be a judge for perfection? If you enlist in a contest you are to be judged by someone else, but in a public gallery? You are going to be judged by people that see your work in the gallery, and if it's bad people will say that or will shut up, but you decide if you want to be judged, no other person that decides if you work is going to be shown in the gallery or not.

In literature there are a lot of interpretations of different pieces, I happened to know a very important writer (now deceased) of theater and at the same time I had to study him in the school, one day I asked him for the things the "experts" said about one of his pieces in my school book, you know what he said me? "Let them think whatever they want, they don't know what I wanted to express when I wrote that", and IMO this is it, only the artist can truly judge it's piece, no matter if it's good or bad for us, if you don't like it, say so or shut up, if you like it, say so or shut up,but don't try to censore anyone (even when that word sounds hard that is what you are asking for).

And if newbies seek for attention, why is that so wrong? There are people that don't have the luck to have other people around them with any knowledge or interest in what they do, so they post and talk in places where other people with the same interest is going to be, not always things are done to get credit, maybe they publish just to talk, or maybe to improve or for any other reason, again, if you don't like it, ,why censor it? Just ignore it :)

And finally to Rawalanche, there are persons that just want to show off things for the very own reason of showing off things, they don't want criticism (even when they can be greatful for it) they don't want clients (because maybe they don't work on this) and they don't want to improve their picece(maybe because they don't have time to do that), and they publish just for the shake of publishing, and if someone likes their piece, they are happy with it :) not always a reason is needed to do something, and while we can think the same for our own work (which I do and it's why I published just one project, to get criticism and improve the next one) not everyone has to think the same way we do :)

Cheers.

[Mr.Schorsch]

No one said, that there will be "shitty" Images. All The OP and I was asking for, was to split the Gallery in Commercial and non Commercial. If you just don't want it, say it and we are fine. But please stop saying, that there will be shitty Images or half finished work or such ( this is bullshit) There will be exactly the same stuff you have now, just separated... And jup... Clients restrictions, time and Budget Limits can make Images shitty. But if they are, I, for myself, would just not post them, for exactly the reasons you guy's just named. I don't think that there would be a drop in quality in the forum.

.. I mean, we are not asking for a kidney, so no need to get impolite ore offensive.

I was part of the xoio team for four years years. And I know what quality is and how hard it is to achieve great quality in an commercial environment, with all the odds that might hit you during the process.

[romullus]

I don't understand a problem. If one wants to specify that certain work is commercial or personal, he will do it in description. OTOH if one don't care about it, he most likely doesn't bother to publish it in right section.

[Juraj]

I don't understand a problem. If one wants to specify that certain work is commercial or personal, he will do it in description. OTOH if one don't care about it, he most likely doesn't bother to publish it in right section.

I was just writting this in the same moment :- )

Just write something in lieu of:   [Commercial work] House on the 42nd