Chaos Corona Forum
Chaos Corona for Cinema 4D => [C4D] General Discussion => Topic started by: dok-rz on 2020-07-28, 09:45:54
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Hi corona-Team,
are you planning to support apple's switch to their own cpu-archictecture?
I'm just wondering how it will afffect the already bad 3D-situation on macs.
At least Maxon did confirm they will support Cinema4d on apple silcon asap.
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Hi, thanks for your message. We are most aware about this and have been looking into what is needed to support it. We need time on this matter and you can be asured that we will offer more details in the coming future. Thanks!
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Great,
thank you very much
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You're welcome!
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Any news about this? Even a little hope for the future?
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The first AS computer is around the corner but it will be just a low end laptop and you don’t want to work on that at least for render tasks(for image/video editing tasks I bet it will drive circle around at what we have now). Realistically a more powerful laptop is still months away and it will take about a year to get faster desktop systems, even more for high end desktop.
Developers as stated before are already looking in to this, but there is no hurry;)
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In my opinion, now is the best time to start developing applications for this platform so that a mature and fully functional product will be ready when the strong Apple Sillicons Machnies appear on the market. You don't want to waste a year or two on betas releases, bug reports etc. BTW, the Octane team was smart, they have an engine that runs on iPhone and iPads with Apple Sillicon cpus. People laughed about it and criticized on the Otoy forum "Who needs render engine on iPhone?" Well ... not on iPhone but on Apple Sillicon as you can see. Now Otoy team can laugh. I would like the Corona team to take this into account and not wait for new Macs too long.
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I agree. In late 2021, you may well see a high end iMac that some may consider for Cinema/Corona workflow.
The insecurity alone is enough for me consider looking at redshift or octane - despite being very happy with Corona - and hoping for the best.
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Many software will just need a recompile, they have already show Maya and other softwares running smoothly during the WWDC for example and they were not optimized for AS at all. Coding for GPU renderer is far more difficult, that’s why it took so long for Otoy and RS to get their renderer to Mac(while it’s still not possible to port it to AMD GPU on Windows because of the drivers).
In a very short time the first AS hardware will be available, bigger software house like Adobe, Maxon and other should already have something ready, then smaller developers will follow.
IMO there is nothing to worry about and no reason to switch to other engine;)
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It's not about changing render engine but about decisions of hardware upgrade. If I buy new AS mac (and I probably will) in 2021, and there will be any render engine ready to use advanteges of the new hardware I will use it. If it will work great I won't stay at current one. Sorry, I'm tired of constantly compepe with PC Octane or RS users. My customers start asking what hardware and software I use, because they heard about great...(write any gpu renderer you want). I believe that naw AS can unleash power of the Corona Render, I love this engine. That's why I wish to Corona team will not sleep over of that transitions. In 2021 there will be not only new AS Macs but also lot of new graphics cards for PC users, for their render engines. They will be offer faster services than I. I can't afford for it. It's not the time to wait, it's time to action.
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O.K. so now that Apple released its M1 CPU/SOC, and Maxon released R23 in an ARM native version, I'm totally up for it and ordered a Mac mini to see where things go.
Would be really nice to have corona renderer too!
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O.K. so now that Apple released its M1 CPU/SOC, and Maxon released R23 in an ARM native version, I'm totally up for it and ordered a Mac mini to see where things go.
Would be really nice to have corona renderer too!
Would be nice to hear how Corona performs under rosetta emulation, if it will run :-)
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From all the hands-on reviews I've seen today, everyone is blown away by the performance with this first, entry-level M1 chip in the new Macbook Air. This sounds promising for the future of Mac desktops. One test I saw showed the M1 Air was at least three times faster than the most recent Macbook Pro. I've seen the M1-powered Mac Mini Cinebench scores equal the original iMac Pro, around 1,700 in the multi-core test. For an entry-level chip, that's impressive for $700.
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Rendering on the MacMini you're going to run out of RAM very, very quickly.
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I have a number of renders with Corona that use virtual memory on a 32Gb 2015 iMac and still getting reasonable speed. So maybe the ssd on these m1 macbook's and mini's will help to render the occasional bigger file.
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Rendering on the MacMini you're going to run out of RAM very, very quickly.
Not necessarily, I can’t speak for M1 machine since I don’t have one, but even on standard Intel system MacOS is very efficient regarding memory management and remarkably stable. I own and use both Mac and Windows PC(both Intel and AMD) and while both OS should support compressed memory, that really work way better on Mac.
Years ago I was able to render a very large scene within 16GB on an old MacBookPro, the same scene required more than twice as much physical RAM on other systems equipped with 64GB, the MBP was still able to render without mayor slowdown/instability.
The new hardware/OS should work even better in that regard, so why I do agree that 16GB maybe few for some (including me) it may be plenty for many, after all GPU folks are still working with less than that on average;)
Always remember that this machines are just entry level systems, and probably their target audience will find 16GB sufficient for their needs, of course for more heavy tasks is better to wait for proper hardware with more physical RAM.
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Meanwhile I have my M1 Mac mini running, with newest R23 C4D installed.
Corona plugin doesn't load at all, there's no error message or anything.
Corona Image Editor runs perfect, which was expected, the intel apps are on the fly translated by "rosetta 2".
As the plugin is not an application, rosetta doesn't help here.
So dear corona coders - please do code :-)
Cheers!
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Hi dok-rz,
just curious, can you run the Corona Benchmark on your M1 mini?
If so, can you post a screenshot of your score here?
Thanks!
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I didn't know Corona Benchmark does exist :-)
Just downloaded it, it runs in Rosetta mode, seems to have some issues with refreshing the viewport while rendering, but it works. See screenshot, I don't have any comparison to other Macs, will try tomorrow on an intel Mac mini.
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Thanks for posting the screenshot.
This will be interesting once the corona code will be optimized for M1 or 2… or M3…
If you already compare mini’s, Cinebench R23 is optimized for M1 and would be interesting to see how Intel mini and M1 mini compare there. Post some results when you get to it.
I’ve seen some Cinebench M1 scores that are mind-blowing…
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I ran Cinebench R23 on my MacMini 2018 i5
System: Intel Core i5-8500B @ 3 GHz
Multi-Core: 5365
Single-Core: 1065
on M1 see screenshot
I wouldn't say mind-blowing, but for a computer with a mobile chip that stays total silent, and draws a total system power of about 30 Watts when running full speed, that's great.
Its enough for my C4d needs, but I really want to use Corona Renderer...
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ok now I ran Corona Benchmark on the MacMini 2018 i7 (this is not the i5 posted with cinebench),
see sceenshot
So its
i7
Time 02:41, Rays/sec: 3,007,360
vs
m1 (with rosetta x86 translation)
Time 03:34, Rays/sec: 2,266,370
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I also was unaware Corona had a benchmark app. Just for giggles, I ran it on this 2013 Mac Pro. I left browsers and other things open since that's how I end up rendering anyway. Curious that the Intel Mini beat the Trashcan considering the high clock rate and 8 cores. I too am keeping my fingers crossed for good and fast things on the Mac side of life.
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Maybe C4d 22 or lower will run Corona Plug-in, as both have to be emulated?!
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Would love to see an update on progress for Apple silicon. I don't see any developments on the roadmap.
Corona is one of the few really good render options we have on Apple hardware icw C4D. The reason I might hang on to Apple for while more. But if Corona isn't going anywere on the new Apple silicon I might give up and go PC/GPU.
So, Corona team, any news to share or an update on what to expect ?
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Curious @FRV that you would jump to a completely different render engine and workflow, when you could just use Corona on the Windows machines and a 64-core Threadripper or something fast like that? If you like Corona, then you can easily stay with it on Windows. Just an observation. If I jumped to Windows, I would stay with Corona.
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Regarding how to get Corona running on S22/R23 with Rosetta - see https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=32050.0
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@bigA
your right, I could just stay with corona on a pc.
But I see here at the office what people do with Lumion and once I go PC, I might go for Lumion (will never be available on a Mac) as well. Its just that I am used to Apple now for over 30 years and I like the Apple ecosystem and looks of the hardware. Corona made me stay so far. I am an architect and the typical render workflow of the past 15 years is fading to easier to use and much quicker app's. Obviously with a bit of a price to pay in terms of image quality. My clients don't see the difference though. Pressing a button and wait for things to see is no longer for this generation of architects. Its all real-time now. Apple has lost it basicly with architects in general. But what kept me going on a mac was really Coronarender. If Corona is not going to support Apple silicon or new iMacs are a bit of a let down I will for sure in the second quarter of this year start investing in a PC with Lumion or get myself familiar with Unreal Engine.
Whats really funny actually, that the number one reason people are so taken with Unreal or Lumion, or even Redshift, is not even real time feed back. Its the cinematic atmospheric volumetric effects. To get something simular in Corona is possible but extremly timeconsuming. In Lumion its instant with the click of a mouse. Almost any image in Lumion looks fantastic, the sunrays through the trees and windows. Its just so very easy to do.
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@fey That makes a lot of sense. Fingers crossed. Haven't used Lumion, but have tinkered with Unreal Engine and it was amazing. i only messed with making levels for Unreal Tournament, but still amazing. Good luck.
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I am just hoping the Corona team will provide some updates on developments for Apple silicon. C4D works very well and Vectorworks is great on the m1. If Corona also joines the club I might still be working with Mac's for the foreseable future. New iMac's will propbably be available around March. But I have hopes I will be able to do some work on my m1 laptop with Corona any time soon.
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As noted, you can use it already, using Rosetta, which means you don't have to sit idle with that laptop in the meantime :)
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I just did and it runs fine indeed. tx
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@frv How does everything run, considering it's running through Rosetta? Viewport? Render times, etc.?
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Hi, I did not really render a project but did some tests with Laubwerk trees. And it actually did fine under Rosetta. I think slightly faster than my 32Gb iMac i7 from late 2015.
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Did just a quick test with Laubwerk trees, 21 trees in total.
The image is 1280x720
Computing GI took a long time though.
About 750 % CPU usage. The M1 does not do hyper threading.
About 30Gb of virtualised ram.
See attached image for the stats.
Macbook does not really get warm even after 10 min rendering. It actually keeps rendering just fine while I am typing this message.
For me doing some work at home in the evening, testing scenes, materials and so on the MacBook seems to do fine.
Wonder why computing GI took a little longer than what I am used to on my iMac.
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C4D crashed the MacBook when I tried zooming in for a new render.
Hopefully Laubwerk and Corona will not let us wait for long for native versions. It took Laubwerk a year to update Surface Spread for R22.
If your on a Mac and doing archviz, C4D, Corona and Laubwerk are a great combination. But I always feel that there is a mismatch with updates, version, OS etc. I am in the market for a much better workflow considering all the hassle keeping stuff tied together.
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What's the advantage of using Surface spread vs. Mograph Cloners set to surface?
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Off topic but Surface Spread is a lot easier and quicker to set up. I have sets of Surface Spread templates with ground cover and plants. Very easy to scale and randomise. I don't use C4D daily so I tend to forget Mograph settings much quicker than the straightforward Surface Spread settings.
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@frv That makes sense. I would add that in the past, I've used Cloners in a similar way. Either by just swapping out the objects to be cloned, or copying that Cloner into another scene and by just replacing the content, you can reuse the settings that were adjusted and perfected previously. Same thing really.
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C4D crashed the MacBook when I tried zooming in for a new render.
Hopefully Laubwerk and Corona will not let us wait for long for native versions. It took Laubwerk a year to update Surface Spread for R22.
If your on a Mac and doing archviz, C4D, Corona and Laubwerk are a great combination. But I always feel that there is a mismatch with updates, version, OS etc. I am in the market for a much better workflow considering all the hassle keeping stuff tied together.
Hello,
attaching a bugreport or the problematic scene is always appreciated and saves 95% of the time investigating the issue.
If that's not for some reason possible, please, try to include some steps, dependencies, corona/c4d versions, OS versions.
Thank you,
Jan
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Your right about sending a crash report to help out.
I did not experience such a crash after that one. I normally also do not really do crash reports since I am not that frequently using corona. I never know when its the software or me at fault . The latter usually the case.
I am working with my m1 laptop a little more these days. If there anything to report I will let you know. I did notice the fonts of the corona VFB like Tone Mapping and LUT do not match the rest of the fonts on my m1.
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Hi corona-Team,
are you planning to support apple's switch to their own cpu-archictecture?
I'm just wondering how it will afffect the already bad 3D-situation on macs.
At least Maxon did confirm they will support Cinema4d on apple silcon asap.
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=32763.0