Author Topic: Which lens to create hdri?  (Read 9124 times)

2016-10-02, 12:58:11

AM_visualization

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
    • amvisualization
hi,

I would create hdri images to use for external images in VR, I like to understand which lens with 180° fiel of view would be perfect to use with full frame, something like a sigma 8mm (spherical image) or samyang 12mm (rectangular image).
I've already seen the peter blog the process to create the rectangular image, but i cannot understand which lens is better.
I've already like a lens 18 35 but I'd rather do less images to merge.

Thanks for teh help...

Fat biker bounce better

2016-10-02, 13:09:27
Reply #1

johan belmans

  • Primary Certified Instructor
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 761
    • View Profile
    • belly.be

2016-10-02, 13:44:05
Reply #2

Juraj

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 4761
    • View Profile
    • studio website
HI there

maybe this can be of any help http://blog.selfshadow.com/publications/s2016-shading-course/unity/s2016_pbs_unity_hdri_notes.pdf

This one is pretty damn good blog but ignore some parts :- ) esp. about shooting -30/+30 vertically with circular fish-eye. The whole point of circular fish-eye lens on full-frame is to avoid that. Of course, he does it to retain some quality, since circular fish-eye, is shit (since it squanders so much of the cmos space, and distorts on edges).

Diagonal ("full frame") fish-eye lens is where it's at if you care about image quality and resolution. You need 6-8 horizontal shoots, plus zenit/nadir. Or 6-8 x2 if you follow the Unity guide, which is already 12 to 16 perspectives.

Circular fish-eye if you want something very fast (you only need to shoot 2 perspectives to get full 360 sphere, but generally 3 to get proper overlap for stitching).

And you can even use classic rectilinear wide-angle lens (if you have full-frame of course), which will require 8-12 shots x2 (16-24 perspectives). Takes very long time, easily over 20 minutes, but provides the ultimate visual quality.
Please follow my new Instagram for latest projects, tips&tricks, short video tutorials and free models
Behance  Probably best updated portfolio of my work
lysfaere.com Please check the new stuff!

2016-10-03, 09:36:44
Reply #3

AM_visualization

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
    • amvisualization
hi,
thanks for the help! I think the Samyang 12mm rectangular image is the best solution between quality images(figuring that I will use the image to about 6k) and number of shots.
I'm also thinking about buying a  pano head http://www.panoheadsv360.com/, searching this is the best option that i've found.
Fat biker bounce better

2016-10-03, 12:29:22
Reply #4

Adanmq

  • Primary Certified Instructor
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
    • 3D Collective
Hi.

ummmm, depending on a lot of factors you will be able to make the  HDR you need using fisheye or not. You first need to know what kind of HDR do you need: Really precise unclamped HDR just for lighting + Backplates? Really big HDR?, Quick HDR you can make on set in 2min? you need low Hemisphere?, etc...

For example: Let's say you want a digital "copy" of the day/hour you shoot your HDR. You need really precise and unclamped HDRi for lighting purposes, you want to be able to make the HDR inside a 5-10 min window tops (otherwise you can't make good sunset HDRi, clouds will move a lot, etc) since you need 10-15stops ND filter to get unclamped HDR and something like 20-24 EV you will be shooting at V 30seg+ a lot (this impacts drastically the HDRi). But using 10-15ND filter introduces a really big bias on the images you get (heavily colored vignetting) , so the post-processing part of this kind of HDR become really complicated (you can see it on the Unity document), time consuming and introduces random failures (some of the HDRs just wont work). In my opinion if you need/want perfect unclamped HDRi just for lighting (most of the ones from the internet are really, really bad to be honest) it´s better to use 180º Fisheye because otherwise you won't be able to capture all the images you need on time.

But if you don't mind if the HDRi it´s unclamped and you only need a beautiful/high resolution sky, don´t use ND filters and use medium format camera (or new generation DSLR) and 12-24 lenses, you can paint by hand the dynamic range you clamp on the sun during shooting to get a really high resolution HDR, it´s not 100% precise but if you do it right nobody will notice the difference.

You can use this calculator to decide which camera/lens you want to use: http://www.hdrlabs.com/tools/panocalc.html

Getting really precise/unclamped HDRi and 32k it´s almost impossible, even using medium format cameras or new generation DSLR, so keep this in mind if you are new to HDR capture.

About the "unity" method, they take +-30º because they want to be able to remove people/traffic from the horizon but in archviz we usually don't even want horizont so you can make it using just 1 rotation (3-4 positions) + Nadir and you can get unclamped HDR using ND inside the 5min window. This method it´s really good but will fail sometimes and usually requires more post-work so it's not rock solid, you can't do it on a set and risk the HDR for example.

About Pano Heads, if you need a versatile one you can adjust to be used with any lens i recommend you Nodal Ninja, if you want the easiest one to use you can get the 360Precision

This is just my recommendation after making lot´s of HDR but i can be mistaken ;) so you need to experiment a lot in order to be able to get the HDRi you want and be able to make it consistent.

Best.

2016-10-03, 12:51:06
Reply #5

Juraj

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 4761
    • View Profile
    • studio website
You're taking HDRi with medium format camera you're telling me ;- ) ? Because not even MOOFE and MACGROUND does that.
Please follow my new Instagram for latest projects, tips&tricks, short video tutorials and free models
Behance  Probably best updated portfolio of my work
lysfaere.com Please check the new stuff!

2016-10-03, 15:13:59
Reply #6

Adanmq

  • Primary Certified Instructor
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
    • 3D Collective
Hi.
jejejeje. Nope i´m not xD i just extrapolates the results i get using 50MP (8688x5792) 5DS, 12-24mm and 15ND to try get unclamped high resolution HDR and it was almost impossible to get good HDR (perfectly calibrated) because can take me 30min or more shooting the images i need and if you try the Unity "method" and want to mix ND shoots with non-ND ones making a single HDR can take even longer and the amount of problems/variables this workflow introduces makes it really un-consistent. You can make 32K HDR using 21-24mm lens and this camera but you need 32 different camera positions (24 can work also) (20%overlap) to make it and this can take a looot of time using NDs so it will fail sometimes. SO this is why most of the HDR you can buy are far from perfect usually they aren't even made from proper linear images.


I try every method/technique i can with my gear and after lots of testing i think you need to decide if you prefer unclamped HDR and sacrifice resolution or high Res HDR and sacrifice precision trying to get both makes me almost crazy xD. But as i say maybe i'm missing something. I will appreciate any suggestion ;)

Best
« Last Edit: 2016-10-03, 15:20:42 by Adanmq »

2016-10-03, 17:09:39
Reply #7

Juraj

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 4761
    • View Profile
    • studio website
If by hi-res you mean absurd 30k then yes :- ) That's not possible (with single camera).

Same for NDs + Wide-angle + FullFrame is some solid visual detriment, augmenting range in post is imho quite good way. Doesn't work properly for artificial light sources, but it's pretty damn ok for Sun.

Agree with crap production of most HDRi, people try to make them look "nice", but they're supposed to be "correct", not "nice". Grant encouranged people to even make post-production on HDRi, which is the most absurd concept ever, it's totally wrong on every possible way and now horde of people think HDRis need to be "calibrated".

Please follow my new Instagram for latest projects, tips&tricks, short video tutorials and free models
Behance  Probably best updated portfolio of my work
lysfaere.com Please check the new stuff!

2016-10-03, 17:18:57
Reply #8

Ondra

  • Administrator
  • Active Users
  • *****
  • Posts: 9048
  • Turning coffee to features since 2009
    • View Profile
I am really looking forwad to the moment people will start hitting the 32/64k limit of 3dsmax bitmap. Then people will finally start using corona bitmap... :D
Rendering is magic.How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2016-10-03, 17:57:58
Reply #9

Adanmq

  • Primary Certified Instructor
  • Active Users
  • ***
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
    • 3D Collective
jejejeje. To be honest i think even 8K HDR it´s too big. But in archviz people want to have on click solution (light+background) and i start trying to make the "perfect" HDR just to better understand the difficulties. Finally i'm making 4K-8K ones and focusing on quality/precision (there is a lot involved on making really good HDR xD)

Best.

2016-10-03, 18:27:36
Reply #10

AM_visualization

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
    • amvisualization
people want to have on click solution (light+background)

i'm one of those!!:D

I really appreciate the help you are giving me, i read the pdf unity, I think I'll do just a set of images +30 since I only interested to have the hemisphere. Fortunately I also have a set of ND filters 1000/500, the only problem now is find the right exposure......;)
Fat biker bounce better

2016-10-03, 18:28:29
Reply #11

adamadam

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
If you have a Canon, I found that this is a great way to quickly capture large HDRI panos quite quickly:

http://magiclantern.fm/index.html plus a GigaPan head (http://www.gigapan.com/). As it's all automatic, it can whip through a panorama a lot quicker than setting all angles and exposures for each shot.

Probably cheaper than a decent wide-angle lens.

2016-10-03, 18:41:36
Reply #12

AM_visualization

  • Active Users
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
    • amvisualization
"unfortunately" I have not canon, i'm using nikon d610, i've already found magic lantern and i think it's an amazing program.....but there isn't something similar for nikon....:(
Fat biker bounce better