Author Topic: Clouds playground!  (Read 18481 times)

2022-08-20, 11:51:18

Aram Avetisyan

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New Clouds are available in Corona 9 Daily Build!
Check them out in CoronaSky and share your results!

P.S. Thanks Maru for the renders!
« Last Edit: 2022-08-20, 11:56:42 by maru »
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2022-08-20, 19:51:03
Reply #1

marchik

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By the way, did I understand correctly that cirrus clouds cannot be randomized?

2022-08-24, 14:18:06
Reply #2

romullus

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Feature request: it would be nice to have cloud shadows as optional - sometimes you set the lighting and you don't want it to change, but you want to have few clouds in the sky without affecting anything else in the scene. I find cloud shadows quite a hit and miss, especially since they act so unpredictably in IR.
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2022-08-24, 16:51:12
Reply #3

Juraj

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Feature request: it would be nice to have cloud shadows as optional - sometimes you set the lighting and you don't want it to change, but you want to have few clouds in the sky without affecting anything else in the scene. I find cloud shadows quite a hit and miss, especially since they act so unpredictably in IR.

Do they cast occlusion shadows? Something that HDRi bitmap that looks visually the same does not? Or you mean all lighting in general such as brighter white cloud contributing bit of additional light.
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2022-08-24, 19:17:06
Reply #4

romullus

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They actually do, at least i think so. Sometimes it looks weird when shadows from the sun and the clouds are kinda mixing together and often they're simply annoying, when you move the sun and the shadows pops in and out constantly and worst of all that you can't trust IR - sometimes you get cloud shadows, but if you restart IR they disappear, or IR and regular rendering gives different result. I'm sure most of these issues will be ironed out, but having an option to opt out of cloud shadows, can't hurt i think.
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2022-08-24, 19:38:47
Reply #5

Juraj

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Sometimes it looks weird when shadows from the sun and the clouds are kinda mixing together

I can imagine..

Not sure if shadows from clouds are even good idea if the sun (and light from sun) is never occluded or modified by the clouds itself. We don't get occlusion shadows from HDRi either for logical reason (no actual physical object at certain distance).
But hopefully the clouds will always contribute to the overall light &reflection in form of Skylight. I.e, act like HDRi.
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2022-08-24, 19:53:22
Reply #6

romullus

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Yes, they do contribute to overall lighting. Not sure how accurate it is, but it looks quite nice. By the way, i was impressed to find that shadows are visible in viewport and they are pretty accurate to what you get in rendering, so in theory you don't even need to launch IR to set-up them :]
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2022-09-02, 13:28:15
Reply #7

annkos

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Playing around with the new clouds, love them so far!

2022-09-02, 13:54:10
Reply #8

romullus

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Looking nice! Did you adjust contrast significantly? Your clouds looks much more punchy than what i usually get.
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2022-09-02, 15:01:54
Reply #9

maru

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/prompt "highly detailed clouds over a stormy sky", in the style of renaissance painting, earthly tones

looks great! :)
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2022-09-03, 00:17:04
Reply #10

Dionysios.TS

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Looking nice! Did you adjust contrast significantly? Your clouds looks much more punchy than what i usually get.

I've noticed even with the ACES on, I get some "sad no contrasted" results on the sky. The cloud model is cool but as you wrote I need to add additional contrast to the image.
But from the other side, if I think about it, when I take a photo with my DSLR in RAW format, I need to work all the data in Lightroom. At this point I prefer keeping the ACES option on, not apply any LUT and do the work manually in Lightroom as always.

Just my thoughts...

2022-09-03, 13:57:33
Reply #11

Mohammadreza Mohseni

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here is my test. I love this feature.



2022-09-04, 11:38:36
Reply #12

romullus

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I would like request to expose random seed parameter in clouds UI. Offset is good for animating cloud movement, but it kinda sucks for fast exploring of different clouds positions, since you need to drag the spinners a lot, or enter numeric values by hand to get substantially different clouds.
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2022-09-04, 16:22:36
Reply #13

Cinemike

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I would like request to expose random seed parameter in clouds UI. Offset is good for animating cloud movement, but it kinda sucks for fast exploring of different clouds positions, since you need to drag the spinners a lot, or enter numeric values by hand to get substantially different clouds.

+1

2022-09-06, 13:46:03
Reply #14

GeorgeK

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I would like request to expose random seed parameter in clouds UI. Offset is good for animating cloud movement, but it kinda sucks for fast exploring of different clouds positions, since you need to drag the spinners a lot, or enter numeric values by hand to get substantially different clouds.

Thanks, reporting it for further consideration.

(Internal ID=959574428)
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2022-09-06, 16:48:48
Reply #15

lupaz

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I just installed the new daily in a separate folder to load Max 2020 with it.

I can't seem to have the clouds working.
Do I need to do anything else other than activating the clouds on the CoronaSky?

2022-09-06, 17:13:41
Reply #16

TomG

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Nope other than making sure it's the PRG Sky, and that you have no overrides for direct visibility etc. or LightMix layers with multiple skies that could mean you are looking at a different sky :)
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2022-09-06, 17:14:35
Reply #17

TomG

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Oh and make sure your sky altitude and camera actual altitude in the 3D scene is not higher than the Clouds altitude.
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2022-09-06, 17:56:28
Reply #18

lupaz

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Oh and make sure your sky altitude and camera actual altitude in the 3D scene is not higher than the Clouds altitude.

Nope. Nothing.
I'm sending the file attached just in case the devs want to see it.
But, unless I'm missing something, it's not showing the clouds at all.




2022-09-06, 18:33:53
Reply #19

TomG

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Loaded the scene, some warning about MentalRay assets etc told it to clear them out on scene open, and then just hit render and there they are. Was this created in some older version of Corona, including an earlier daily build? Max 2023 here btw.
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2022-09-06, 18:37:07
Reply #20

lupaz

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Loaded the scene, some warning about MentalRay assets etc told it to clear them out on scene open, and then just hit render and there they are. Was this created in some older version of Corona, including an earlier daily build? Max 2023 here btw.

Yes. It's my Maxstart file created with Corona 7 or 8.
Will try removing that Maxstart file and see if that was the issue.
Thanks Tom.

2022-09-06, 18:41:56
Reply #21

TomG

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Most welcome! Yeah if from an older Corona version there could be internal settings and parameters that are different now, create a new scene, merge this one into it, then save again as your new start (or maybe even just a "Reset Settings" and resave might work without the new scene > merge thing). Let us know how you get on!
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2022-09-06, 21:15:24
Reply #22

Mohammadreza Mohseni

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I just installed the new daily in a separate folder to load Max 2020 with it.

I can't seem to have the clouds working.
Do I need to do anything else other than activating the clouds on the CoronaSky?
I had this issue with latest daily build and merge in new scene or reset or both does not help to resolve it, and i had several times download and install it but does not help either. after checking the installation folder and compare it to setup file i found that the prg cloud dat file had not been copied to corona installation folder so manually copying it to prg sky folder fix the issue for me. perhaps thats the case for you also.

2022-09-06, 22:17:28
Reply #23

lupaz

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I just installed the new daily in a separate folder to load Max 2020 with it.

I can't seem to have the clouds working.
Do I need to do anything else other than activating the clouds on the CoronaSky?
I had this issue with latest daily build and merge in new scene or reset or both does not help to resolve it, and i had several times download and install it but does not help either. after checking the installation folder and compare it to setup file i found that the prg cloud dat file had not been copied to corona installation folder so manually copying it to prg sky folder fix the issue for me. perhaps thats the case for you also.

Thanks for that info.
My second installation of Corona (the one I run with the BAT file) did have that PrgCloudsModelData.dat file.
But I realized that the second installation was taking files from the original Corona folder (LUTs for example). So I installed that PrgClouds file to the original installation of Corona and now it works!

Maybe the problem was in my BAT file. Don't know. This is what my BAT file has:
SET "CORONA_3DSMAX_2020_LOAD_PATH=C:\Users\Guido\Desktop\CoronaForTests\Corona\Corona Renderer for 3ds Max\2020" & START "" "%ProgramFiles%\Autodesk\3ds Max 2020\3dsmax.exe"

Anyway, thanks both!

2022-09-07, 09:03:40
Reply #24

rowmanns

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Hi,

We are aware of the issue where the clouds/sky data doesn't work with multiloaders. We are looking into a fix for this.

Cheers,

Rowan
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2022-09-07, 09:24:11
Reply #25

aldaryn

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I did a quick live session to my team explaining the system's exceptional ability to iterate and explore moods interactively. Two things popped up.

1.: Really nice moods and skys. :D
2.: A bug blending the volume effect with the clouds. (second image, on the left, volume effect is set to 1.0, right it is off)

Since the clouds look so nice and there are so few images in this thred, thought I grow their numbers a bit.

2022-09-07, 12:13:37
Reply #26

rowmanns

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I did a quick live session to my team explaining the system's exceptional ability to iterate and explore moods interactively. Two things popped up.

1.: Really nice moods and skys. :D
2.: A bug blending the volume effect with the clouds. (second image, on the left, volume effect is set to 1.0, right it is off)

Since the clouds look so nice and there are so few images in this thred, thought I grow their numbers a bit.
Hi,

Thanks for the feedback! We are aware of the issue with the volume effect.

Unfortunately it is not straightforward to fix, and therefore I cannot provide a timescale on when this may happen.

Thanks,

Rowan
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2022-09-07, 15:50:06
Reply #27

romullus

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Thank you for making clouds shadows optional, it's so nice when you don't need to chase clouds position where they don't cast shadow on entire scene anymore!
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2022-09-09, 13:03:55
Reply #28

aldaryn

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Unfortunately it is not straightforward to fix, and therefore I cannot provide a timescale on when this may happen.

Care to elaborate? I'm just courius.

To me, it seemed, that the clouds are not actually "in the scene", they appear to be "baked in" the sky shader (thus the speed). So, for my layman mind, they should behave just like a bitmap in the background of the scene. Also, putting the volumeetric effect inside the sky shader felt a bit strange from the beginning. Don't you guys want to give the purpuse built fast aerial perspective shader a separate volumetric shader that we can drop onto a geometry or put it into some global volume shader slot?

2022-09-22, 14:31:57
Reply #29

rowmanns

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By the way, did I understand correctly that cirrus clouds cannot be randomized?
Hey Marchik,

I saw you posted a few questions regarding clouds around. I spoke to the dev team regarding these and I will copy in their responses below :)

Quote
By the way, did I understand correctly that cirrus clouds cannot be randomized?
They can be just offset (together with main clouds, not independently), but not randomized (variety parameter doesn't affect them). There will be a new random seed parameter for clouds and contrails, however this won't affect cirrus clouds. Right now a random seed for cirrus clouds would not be effective as cirrus clouds are just a 2d texture. This is something we could look into for the future.

Quote
I will additionally mention that I did not manage to achieve an acceptable look of an almost evenly overcast sky, as if there is always not enough range of parameters, for example, I would gladly set the cirrus amount to more than 1.0.
1.0 just means "cirrus texture" is shown without hiding anything. I guess you would like clouds to be darker? We can look into this in future iterations

Quote
Similarly, it would be convenient to be able to slightly randomize the position of the clouds in height relative to each other, if you set the "Altitude" parameter to a sufficiently high value, then the repeatability becomes clearly noticeable
This is quite tricky to do, we will log this for investigation.

Quote
It would be cool to have access to the parameters of the cloud shading itself, (make them more transparent without changing the thickness for example, or slightly change the parameters for scattering in them) + I would like to have a greater variety of real-life cloud shapes.
As a result, from all these parameters it will be possible to form presets (low cloudy / rainy / cirrus, etc., which can be used by ordinary users who do not like to "play"
This is something we are looking into for v10 and the future.

I hope this helps.

Thanks,

Rowan
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2022-09-22, 14:58:12
Reply #30

romullus

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I was about to ask for some parameter to adjust clouds contrast, but i see something similar has been already asked, so +1 from me.
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2022-09-22, 16:17:48
Reply #31

Dionysios.TS

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I was about to ask for some parameter to adjust clouds contrast, but i see something similar has been already asked, so +1 from me.

+1 from me as well! :)

2022-09-22, 18:27:29
Reply #32

lupaz

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I was about to ask for some parameter to adjust clouds contrast, but i see something similar has been already asked, so +1 from me.
If this is regarding how clouds get big bad hotspots, I also want to add my +1 for contrast control.
This is only for cumulus clouds, not cirrus, at least in my case.

2022-09-28, 10:08:18
Reply #33

RolandB

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Awesome new feature in Corona, thanks so much for that !
Here's my little contribution.
Portfolio on Béhance
http://www.behance.net/GCStudio

2022-09-28, 11:11:59
Reply #34

TomMannington

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Enjoying experimentation. Used the new sky features on a Calvert Daylight studio model. Some more variety with Cirrus clouds would be good, moving it independently from the main clouds would be good as I see from comments its more difficult to randomise.
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2022-09-28, 13:31:22
Reply #35

burnin

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100% coverage. Phase across Variety.

2022-10-01, 00:22:00
Reply #36

romullus

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Contrails distortion looks weird. Could it be somehow improved to better resemble the actual thing?

Also feature request - i would love to have an option for partial cloud coverage. No need for something fancy like painting maps for explicit control, a simple spinner "horizon bias" would be already great - quite often IRL you can see beautiful clouds over horizon, while sky overhead is completely clear, it would be nice to be able to replicate this in Corona.
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2022-10-01, 10:02:52
Reply #37

romullus

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I forgot to thank the team for the seed parameter, it's so much easier to quickly evaluate different clouds positions now, so thank you very much! :]
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2022-10-03, 13:08:01
Reply #38

user116

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Contrails distortion looks weird. Could it be somehow improved to better resemble the actual thing?

Also feature request - i would love to have an option for partial cloud coverage. No need for something fancy like painting maps for explicit control, a simple spinner "horizon bias" would be already great - quite often IRL you can see beautiful clouds over horizon, while sky overhead is completely clear, it would be nice to be able to replicate this in Corona.

+1

2022-10-03, 13:10:28
Reply #39

Bjoershol

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Also feature request - i would love to have an option for partial cloud coverage. No need for something fancy like painting maps for explicit control, a simple spinner "horizon bias" would be already great - quite often IRL you can see beautiful clouds over horizon, while sky overhead is completely clear, it would be nice to be able to replicate this in Corona.

+1

Clouds look great, can't wait to try this out!

2022-10-05, 12:28:44
Reply #40

burnin

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Trying to get thin film on clouds, I came up with few feature requests for your consideration:
- rotation & windspeed instead of XY/ XZ offsets (much simpler to control/animate)
- alphas & z-depth (masks, passes) for all Sky elements (for post or as a shader)
- optional extra detail (noise, vorticity, octaves...) (cheap higher fidelity texture results)
and some further quality of life improvements:
iridescent clouds & rainbows (basically colored contrails),
- sun rays,
- night sky...


and more after :)
« Last Edit: 2022-10-05, 12:32:58 by burnin »

2022-11-01, 14:18:44
Reply #41

John.McWaters

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Does anyone have advice on how to create soft, overcast lighting with the cloud parameters? I'd like to recreate the lighting effects from a favorite HDRI of mine (or get close), but I keep getting some pretty strong direct sun shadows.

2022-11-02, 14:14:19
Reply #42

burnin

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Does anyone have advice on how to create soft, overcast lighting with the cloud parameters? I'd like to recreate the lighting effects from a favorite HDRI of mine (or get close), but I keep getting some pretty strong direct sun shadows.
You control sun shadow sharpness w/ Sun Size parameter. From 0.01 (sharp) to 64 (soft).
With Clouds, control is enabled by turning on "Apply shadows from clouds".
« Last Edit: 2022-11-02, 14:19:34 by burnin »

2022-11-02, 14:20:08
Reply #43

Juraj

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But he probably means automatically, which the current cloud model doesn't do.

So your solution is one version (unless it also dulls the light spread between clouds), second is using single volumetric cloud in front of sun using some nice VDB from internet.
But that would take away the speed and simplicity, and would be worse than HDRi.
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2022-11-02, 14:33:16
Reply #44

John.McWaters

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Does anyone have advice on how to create soft, overcast lighting with the cloud parameters? I'd like to recreate the lighting effects from a favorite HDRI of mine (or get close), but I keep getting some pretty strong direct sun shadows.
You control sun shadow sharpness w/ Sun Size parameter. From 0.01 (sharp) to 64 (soft).
With Clouds, control is enabled by turning on "Apply shadows from clouds".

Is the 'apply shadows from clouds' checkbox located in the Corona Sky component?

2022-11-02, 15:39:40
Reply #45

romullus

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Is the 'apply shadows from clouds' checkbox located in the Corona Sky component?

It's in the sun object's parameters.
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2022-11-04, 22:04:39
Reply #46

danio1011

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We continue to love the clouds.  However we're working on an island project right now where it's typical to see distant clouds on the horizon (pink at sunset, etc) but NO clouds above you.  It's just a certain 'look' we're after.  Is that possible with the corona sky clouds?  I've modified the seed endlessly, and dropped the height limit to as low as I can but just can't quite seem to create a 'horizon bias.'

Thanks!

2022-11-04, 23:17:57
Reply #47

lupaz

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Also feature request - i would love to have an option for partial cloud coverage. No need for something fancy like painting maps for explicit control, a simple spinner "horizon bias" would be already great - quite often IRL you can see beautiful clouds over horizon, while sky overhead is completely clear, it would be nice to be able to replicate this in Corona.
Romullus mentioned this before and I'd like to add a +1 for this.


2022-12-03, 02:28:28
Reply #48

JoeS

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So I have a question about motion blur with the clouds I can get motion blur if I animate the camera and just rotate it. But if I animate the clouds with Offset x say around 1000m and use a long shutter speed I get no motion blur with the clouds. I am trying to shoot like I would do with landscape photography. Any ideas ?

2022-12-03, 06:28:58
Reply #49

JoeS

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As you can see the render is motion blur of the camera rotating with clouds and a reflective ground plane. But I would like to use a longer shutter speed to create cloud motion blur like you would in real world photography. After testing, is this a missing feature ? I have attached a real photo to show what it needs to be doing so the rest of the scene can remain static and unaffected.

2022-12-03, 18:49:11
Reply #50

romullus

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Did you try to activate geometry in Corona camera's motion blur rollout?
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2022-12-04, 01:24:40
Reply #51

JoeS

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Hi romullus

Yes I have tried with geometry enabled on the camera and both camera and object at the same time etc.

2022-12-04, 03:08:09
Reply #52

JoeS

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Another question can you have light shafts through the gaps in the clouds or is this just a 2D map ?
« Last Edit: 2022-12-04, 03:15:34 by JoeS »

2022-12-05, 13:57:50
Reply #53

TomG

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Motion blur is not possible with clouds at the moment, either for their movement of for camera translations - as you note the only thing that will generate blur is if the camera is rotating. From my personal testing, light rays through the clouds do not work (that is, volumetrics). Hope this helps and is not too disappointing!
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2022-12-05, 22:37:57
Reply #54

JoeS

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Hi Tom

Thanks again for your reply's and taking the time. I did test light rays with a volumetric material in the global volume material slot. I was hoping that since the clouds are able to cast shadows that this would enable a light shaft effect. Not gonna lie Clouds being a major feature of the corona 9 release this seems like a missed opportunity even if it is faked in some way for render speed. It would have given some really creative tools for archviz that have been missing. I will test it with scattered VDB's see what I can come up with I know Terragen creates lush VDB clouds that can be exported. I have attached some real photo samples for future reference. 

2022-12-06, 16:41:17
Reply #55

maru

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Here is a trick:
Set up your scene with the animation you wish (e.g. animated clouds, some animated geometry - whatever you wish).
Do not enable motion blur.
Render your image as a sequence with pass limit set to 1 (it could be more if you wish to get better overall quality) and save each frame in CXR format.
Then open CIE, use the "merge" option in CIE, and pick your CXR frames.

You should get something similar to motion blur as the frames will be simply stacked on each other.

You can also use a different format and stack them in other software.

To get a different motion blur curve, you would probably have to adjust the shape of the animation curves in the 3ds Max curve editor.
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2022-12-06, 19:25:03
Reply #56

Ondra

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We continue to love the clouds.  However we're working on an island project right now where it's typical to see distant clouds on the horizon (pink at sunset, etc) but NO clouds above you.  It's just a certain 'look' we're after.  Is that possible with the corona sky clouds?  I've modified the seed endlessly, and dropped the height limit to as low as I can but just can't quite seem to create a 'horizon bias.'

Thanks!
try doing cloudy + cloudless CoronaSky and blending them with some angle-based falloff map... maybe it will work reasonably...
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2022-12-07, 13:20:28
Reply #57

JoeS

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We continue to love the clouds.  However we're working on an island project right now where it's typical to see distant clouds on the horizon (pink at sunset, etc) but NO clouds above you.  It's just a certain 'look' we're after.  Is that possible with the corona sky clouds?  I've modified the seed endlessly, and dropped the height limit to as low as I can but just can't quite seem to create a 'horizon bias.'

Thanks!
try doing cloudy + cloudless CoronaSky and blending them with some angle-based falloff map... maybe it will work reasonably...


If you play with the improved model altitude and cloud position altitude you can get some ok results. The biggest problem is the gradient at the horizon line that fades out the clouds, would be nice to be able to reduce it. Would make it look cleaner and further in the distance like the attached photo.   

2022-12-13, 23:12:35
Reply #58

dj_buckley

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Not sure if this has been mentioned but the brightness intensity of the clouds doesn't scale with the sun multiplier.

So if the sun is on, the clouds go really bright, if you reduce the sun multiplier to say 0.1, the clouds brightness doesn't change.  They only change when you turn the sun off completely.

2022-12-14, 12:48:03
Reply #59

rowmanns

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Not sure if this has been mentioned but the brightness intensity of the clouds doesn't scale with the sun multiplier.

So if the sun is on, the clouds go really bright, if you reduce the sun multiplier to say 0.1, the clouds brightness doesn't change.  They only change when you turn the sun off completely.
Hey,

Which Corona version?

Rowan
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Send me your scene!

2022-12-14, 12:54:36
Reply #60

dj_buckley

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9 HF1, I'm not a daily build user

2023-01-12, 12:57:29
Reply #61

Bjoershol

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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already - but I'm pretty sure the cloud shadows change or move somehow when rendering compared to how it looks in interactive rendering.

Trying to render some buildings where the sun is just hitting them and keeping the surroundings in shadow - but can't get it to match with what I'm seeing when testing in interactive.

2023-02-17, 00:38:23
Reply #62

marchik

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Guys, I've just realized that you can avoid this annoying "clouds(hdri)+volume haze horizon rectangle bug" just by adding refractive surface, for some reason this rectangle is just not visible through refraction, so I come up with creating a huge non-reflective glass plane (see the attachment). I don't know for what reason do you need this :D but maybe devs could implement this fake solution (checkbox "create huge glass plane on the horizon line) until they come up with something better.

2023-02-17, 00:40:59
Reply #63

JoeS

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Lol a bug to fix the bug well done sir !

2023-02-17, 11:00:49
Reply #64

Juraj

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Yeah I never used this feature once because of this limitation. If CoronaSky has "fake" blur, this really should as well.
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2023-02-24, 16:12:43
Reply #65

Dionysios.TS

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Guys, I've just realized that you can avoid this annoying "clouds(hdri)+volume haze horizon rectangle bug" just by adding refractive surface, for some reason this rectangle is just not visible through refraction, so I come up with creating a huge non-reflective glass plane (see the attachment). I don't know for what reason do you need this :D but maybe devs could implement this fake solution (checkbox "create huge glass plane on the horizon line) until they come up with something better.

I confirm as well, this is a bug!
Did you reported it?

Thanks,

Dionysios -

2023-02-24, 16:14:35
Reply #66

romullus

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This issue has been reported multiple times already. No need for yet another report please.
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
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2023-02-24, 17:12:20
Reply #67

Dionysios.TS

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This issue has been reported multiple times already. No need for yet another report please.

Ok, thanks!