Chaos Corona Forum
Chaos Corona for 3ds Max => [Max] Feature Requests => [Max] Resolved Feature Requests => Topic started by: Ondra on 2017-08-28, 10:50:13
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The questions is simple - V-Ray has solved a lot of problems before us, and now we have access to those solutions. What feature that V-Ray already has would you like to see in Corona? Note that this is just for our inspiration, and we don't have time to do much porting before 1.7 release, so we are talking about 1.8 and later
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I'm not familiar with V-ray, but i always felt a bit envy its users for vray pattern and vray fur :]
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Don't know V-ray indepht neither, but any kind of "sketch/toon" shader (for ArchViz) would be extremely welcome :)
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I'm not familiar with V-ray, but i always felt a bit envy its users for vray pattern and vray fur :]
afaik, vray pattern is another plugin, not included in vray as a feature.
but it will great if coronaScatter have some vrayPattern ability like regularity and low RAM usage :)
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VRayFur, VRayDomeLight as separate light source object and 2D displacement.
This is the first things that comes into my mind.
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Can you port irradiance mapping? :D
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VRayFur, VRayDomeLight as separate light source object and 2D displacement.
This is the first things that comes into my mind.
Agreed, having a dedicated Dome Light in Corona wouldn't be bad, it would be easier to manage different lighting scenarios and make converting scenes a bit easier, too.
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VRayFur, VRayDomeLight as separate light source object and 2D displacement.
This is the first things that comes into my mind.
Agreed, having a dedicated Dome Light in Corona wouldn't be bad, it would be easier to manage different lighting scenarios and make converting scenes a bit easier, too.
That's the idea of DomeLight for me, having multiple HDRI's in one scene and fast access to them via light lister.
I think this is must have option that will make life much easier.
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Don't know V-ray indepht neither, but any kind of "sketch/toon" shader (for ArchViz) would be extremely welcome :)
I second that, a toon shader would be really usefull for us ArchViz users.
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I think it would be awesome, when we could be able to use vray scanned materials
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VRscans, VRfur and 2D displacement are definitely planned, but not domelight - we could have made that easily from the beginning, but it was our decision not to do it, to keep the renderer simple and easy to use
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GPU rendering of course (I know you probably won't do it).
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Cryptomatte would be really a great addition. Multi layer .exrs
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GPU accelerated denoising would be awesome! With a lot of light mix layers denoising can really get slow...
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Deeper integration with Blender - does the new business situation make any change to your views on the open source licensing?
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Maybe this is already possible, in that case ignore this post.
A way to save the GI, or at least the most computationally expensive calculations.
This would be useful for animation rendering, if the scene doesn't have moving objects.
And not only for animation, but even for stills, if one already waited for an hour for a render to finish and he decided the still came out great, but he wants to re-render again with a slightly higher resolution, would be great to just save the calculation to a file, and re-render again from that file. And now the renderer needs to calculate mostly antialiasing and reflections, but not the lighting.
I think Vray has something similar to that.
I know Corona is suppose to only use modern techniques, and baking lighting is old technology, but I think many many years need to pass until a full quality still frame takes between 1 and 10 minutes where the baking point becomes moot.
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Maybe this is already possible, in that case ignore this post.
A way to save the GI, or at least the most computationally expensive calculations.
This would be useful for animation rendering, if the scene doesn't have moving objects.
And not only for animation, but even for stills, if one already waited for an hour for a render to finish and he decided the still came out great, but he wants to re-render again with a slightly higher resolution, would be great to just save the calculation to a file, and re-render again from that file. And now the renderer needs to calculate mostly antialiasing and reflections, but not the lighting.
I think Vray has something similar to that.
I know Corona is suppose to only use modern techniques, and baking lighting is old technology, but I think many many years need to pass until a full quality still frame takes between 1 and 10 minutes where the baking point becomes moot.
Corona does this already for UHDcache. To do it for primary GI bounce would require something like Irradiance Map, and that's probably not going to happen.
Regarding DomeLight requests - adding DomeLight would not resolve Corona's inability to store multiple environments for LightMix. That's a completely separate and more complex problem. What introduction of DomeLight would do is just making IBL setup in Corona more confusing and less straightforward.
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As for my vote, definitely being able to see refraction in masking and texmap render elements. It's a long overdue already for such an important feature. V-Ray does that well :)
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Thanks for the fur and 2D displacement priority. They would be my top requests. More efficient fur would be even better if it can be tweaked for grass creation which many of us would use it for. 2D displacement is great too for clean and quick results.
After that CAR PAINT SHADER!
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VRscans, VRfur and 2D displacement are definitely planned, but not domelight - we could have made that easily from the beginning, but it was our decision not to do it, to keep the renderer simple and easy to use
Dome light
Anyone who wants simple can do the things as before, but having that option in more complex scenarios would make a life much easier for someone like me
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Cryptomatte
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Regarding DomeLight requests - adding DomeLight would not resolve Corona's inability to store multiple environments for LightMix. That's a completely separate and more complex problem. What introduction of DomeLight would do is just making IBL setup in Corona more confusing and less straightforward.
Then there should be another solution for the cases when need to keep 2 and more different environments in one scene with easy access, control and switching. Not everyone works with the slate material editor to keep separate tab with different environment maps, so this is not the solution.
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it should be scriptable - some simple UI where you drag&drop few maps and there is one switch controling which one is used. Somebody can try writing it ;)
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Domelight and being able to have multiple HDRIs accessed easier would be fantastic for ArchViz, though the Lumiere plugin looks promising.
Agreed on a ToonShader also. I'd also say a bump-to-normal map, as well as some of the frame buffer post processing stuff.
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Right clicking in VFB to set DOF focus :-)
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Hej,
maybe it's not a "Vray-Feature", but today I was thinking about
the used LUT affecting the material editor slots.
It would speed up material creation a bit.
A vray specific wish would be the HSL or more color correction
options in VFB. Even less postwork would be needed.
So far for my ideas.
As for the upcoming changes for corona,
my only wish is that corona stays simple and relatively easy to use.
I'm very exited about whats coming up!
Best regards
Nico
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Dome Light
Aerial perspective (although the name is confusing - maybe call it fast fog?)
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Regarding DomeLight requests - adding DomeLight would not resolve Corona's inability to store multiple environments for LightMix. That's a completely separate and more complex problem. What introduction of DomeLight would do is just making IBL setup in Corona more confusing and less straightforward.
Then there should be another solution for the cases when need to keep 2 and more different environments in one scene with easy access, control and switching. Not everyone works with the slate material editor to keep separate tab with different environment maps, so this is not the solution.
You don't need slate, you can have it in the compact material editor. For example create CoronaMultiMap, call it "Environments", and into each slot, add environment bitmap you want. Then when you need to switch them, just drag a new environment map and instance it into environment slot.
As far as complexity goes, it's about the same number of input actions:
DomeLight:
1, Select current DomeLight
2, Click checkbox to turn it off
3, Select another DomeLight
4, Click checkbox to turn it on
Environement slot:
1, Hit hotkey to open material editor
2, Hit hotkey to open environment window
3, Drag environment map from editor
4, Drop environment map onto environment slot
I am still wondering why do people keep requesting DomeLight. It does not add any new functionality, ease of use or speed. A practical example where DomeLight does something more or does it faster would be much appreciated.
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I don't know Vray's latest versions.
So maybe this is not an answer to the question.
But, I would love .....
When I started with Corona it was the answer for easy high-quality rendering for me. Way easier as Vray, faster as Maxwell.
Now Vray a Corona join forces I hope Light baking reflection rendering inside Unity and Unreal will be developed. (like Octane is doing inside Unity, but then the Corona-way.... rock solid)
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I wish Corona had an easy, intuitive volume shader like Arnold 5's one but not complicated like V-Ray probabilistic shading, and IR definitely support it
Beside, deep data/OpenEXR 2.0 would be great
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I am still wondering why do people keep requesting DomeLight.
When I get a job I usually set up 10+ cameras and tweak the lighting (including hdr's) for each camera. I then set up state sets to record the lighting rigs and start all renders at the end of the day with one click. I don't have to drag and drop the hdr for each camera because it's been recorded in the state set. It saves me time. In 1.6 the scene environment rollout will not record switching between different hdr's but the max default environment tab does record switching between hdr's. So in that sense I guess I don't need the dome light. And I appreciate the simplicity of corona's approach to limiting confusing options. Which is I can see why the dome light was never created.
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sorry I guess I should've included I uncheck render hidden lights and I separate my lights by layers. That way I can quickly switch between lights by turning layers on and off, which is supported in state sets
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i think vray hdri, vray triplanar texture. should be useful...
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it should be scriptable - some simple UI where you drag&drop few maps and there is one switch controling which one is used. Somebody can try writing it ;)
Drop a Color Correct or Output Map into the environment slot. Drop 4-5 hdri into the slate material editor next to the previous mentioned map. Takes 1 hot key and a simple drag of a node to switch between multiple hdris. This is how i do it and it works great.
I haven't read that this would be put in anywhere, but I would like to see the Corona Toolbar found over in the Corona Goodies forum to be installed by default (Which is something Vray does).
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This thread was the right persuasion approach. Nice re-framing, visualization and focusing in the future.
A good lesson on how to correctly handle the situation. Thanks!
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i think vray hdri, vray triplanar texture. should be useful...
afaik we already have coronaBitmap and coronaTriplanarMap :)
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About the DomeLight - I guess I supported the idea because of easier future handling of seamless scene conversion between Corona and Vray, that's all.
Some other useful stuff:
- Vray's Edge Map handles the rounded corners effect and it distinguishes between convex and concave handling, so you can set up the effect in more versatile way that Corona's current implementation. It's still not super convenient, I'd like it to be fully customizable so Corona handles self and foreign object separately in one map so you can set it up to handle self objects with a concave edge effect of 1,0 cm radius and foreign objects with a convex edge of 2,0 cm radius, for example. Not a 1:1 implementation, but something more flexible that can be useful for Vray too.
- User-Defined Color Map / User-Defined Scalar Map - probably very easy to implement and could prove to be quite useful for various scenarios
- Point Particle Material
- Stochastic Flakes Material... not sure if I'd really need the material but having it as a map would be super interesting and more flexible
- The entire Bokeh Section of the VrayPhysCam has all the controls we were asking for since a few releases. Would love to get some more options for bokehs to further raise the level of realism in Corona
- Does the Vray FB support ICC profiles? Would be great to get that for Corona's VFB!
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it should be scriptable - some simple UI where you drag&drop few maps and there is one switch controling which one is used. Somebody can try writing it ;)
Drop a Color Correct or Output Map into the environment slot. Drop 4-5 hdri into the slate material editor next to the previous mentioned map. Takes 1 hot key and a simple drag of a node to switch between multiple hdris. This is how i do it and it works great.
I haven't read that this would be put in anywhere, but I would like to see the Corona Toolbar found over in the Corona Goodies forum to be installed by default (Which is something Vray does).
You should use Output map, or CoronaOutput, or some light map like that. Autodesk's ColorCorrection is still, even after some fixes, unnecessarily slow map :)
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Would be nice something like this: http://www.nozon.com/presenz
Something like poincloud render to implement with. Actually they have some beta-dev. with chaosgroup. We test in our studio the demos and are very inmersive.
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-Hair & Skin material shaders
-flakes shader(not just material but both would be good)
-coating layer/second refl. channel with extra bump/normal slot and maybe thin film thickness
-curves rendering
-particle rendering as points, quads, spheres, etc. and maybe interpolating between them
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about DomeLight, I don't have longer experience with vray but what I understand is it is a feature which gives user a room to store custom lighting options, am I right?
if ondra doesn't want it because of it could hurts corona's simplicity but in other hands users really need custom lighting options (including me sometimes).
then .. what about integrate custom lighting inside the CoronaCamera? :)
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I don't understand the hard-on for dome light. As far as I recall it converted the HDRI to a bunch of direct lights to solve the GI flicker, that plagued animation renders with anything else but brute-force. (lightcache and irradance mapping)
You could disable GI and it still rendered with dome light.
It was a very well executed fake, one that solved animation headaches. However, with Corona's UHD it is fully solved anyways. Especially with the recent HDRI importance sampling speedup, that they want to release a paper on.
There is barely speed to be gained, but a whole lotta simplicity to be lost.
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about DomeLight, I don't have longer experience with vray but what I understand is it is a feature which gives user a room to store custom lighting options, am I right?
if ondra doesn't want it because of it could hurts corona's simplicity but in other hands users really need custom lighting options (including me sometimes).
then .. what about integrate custom lighting inside the CoronaCamera? :)
That's looks like very good idea, and maybe even improve it with implementation of something similar to camera resolution mod posted in one of the threads so users could have different settings for environment light, resolution etc. per camera
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i think vray hdri, vray triplanar texture. should be useful...
but we have both already...
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That's looks like very good idea, and maybe even improve it with implementation of something similar to camera resolution mod posted in one of the threads so users could have different settings for environment light, resolution etc. per camera
afaik that's already planned as well :)
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i think vray hdri, vray triplanar texture. should be useful...
but we have both already...
Ok, as long as we see in future plans compatibility of vraymtl and vrayproxy when we should expect the coronamaterial and coronaproxy compatibility in VRay?
I know that this question should be addressed to Vlado, but maybe even you can give some answers?
Or maybe Vlado itself can post some info?
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From the blogpost :)
Very soon we will introduce compatibility between each other’s assets. You will be able to use V-Ray proxies, materials and lights in Corona, and vice versa. Our goal is to remove or greatly reduce the need for converters, so that you will be able to switch between engines based on your needs with respect to the project you are working on.
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I never understand why there isn't universal standard proxy? Why each renderer has to introduce its own proprietary proxy? It's just a geometry storage. Isn't it?
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because proxy is really something that should be handled by the 3ds Max, but they never stepped up and made it happen, so each renderer made its own. Of course there could be also a separate plugin made by non-renderer developer, but I am guessing you are not willing to pay extra for it...
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.. should be handled by the 3ds Max, but they never stepped up and made it happen...
autodesk again .. :|
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I would love to see Phoenix fire and water sim incorporated in Corona. Get rid of all Chaos' chaos and introduce some Corona user-friendlyness to it.
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Interactive render with DR.If it is so good by itself How perfect is it with the dr.
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about DomeLight, I don't have longer experience with vray but what I understand is it is a feature which gives user a room to store custom lighting options, am I right?
if ondra doesn't want it because of it could hurts corona's simplicity but in other hands users really need custom lighting options (including me sometimes).
then .. what about integrate custom lighting inside the CoronaCamera? :)
DomeLight's primary use in V-Ray is not to store different custom lighting options, but just to make image based lighting work in the first place. Without it, HDRI illumination does not work correctly.
There's nothing that V-Ray's DomeLight can store that environment map in environment slot can not.
Multiplier of DomeLight is equal to RGB Level value of Bitmap or CoronaBitmap in the environment slot, rotation of the DomeLight is equal to U offset in Bitmap or horizontal rotation in CoronaBitmap, Visibility, and reflection/refraction multipliers are equal of using environment overrides in Corona.
In general, switching multiple environments with DomeLights is not faster or slower than doing so in the environment slot.
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There's nothing that V-Ray's DomeLight can store that environment map in environment slot can not.
copy your dome light and chose a different hdr. now your scene has two hdrs that you can turn on and off for different renders. how do you replicate this workflow in corona? assign the hdr to a non renderings object? save different max files just for different hdr's? you cant? Please let me know!
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There's nothing that V-Ray's DomeLight can store that environment map in environment slot can not.
copy your dome light and chose a different hdr. now your scene has two hdrs that you can turn on and off for different renders. how do you replicate this workflow in corona? assign the hdr to a non renderings object? save different max files just for different hdr's? you cant? Please let me know!
Eh... Just drag and drop another map into environment slot...?
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because proxy is really something that should be handled by the 3ds Max, but they never stepped up and made it happen, so each renderer made its own. Of course there could be also a separate plugin made by non-renderer developer, but I am guessing you are not willing to pay extra for it...
Have you spoken with the SiNi Software guys? They already developed their own one called ProxSI. Not used it here since we only ever use Corona Proxy, but maybe now's a good time to look into that with them.
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Eh... Just drag and drop another map into environment slot...?
yes i do that now. but when you have a max file with 30 cameras, you need to rotate or completely change the hdr based on that view. it would be SUPER DOOPER cool if somehow we didn't need to reassign those custom settings every time you switch cameras. Know what i mean?
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Eh... Just drag and drop another map into environment slot...?
yes i do that now. but when you have a max file with 30 cameras, you need to rotate or completely change the hdr based on that view. it would be SUPER DOOPER cool if somehow we didn't need to reassign those custom settings every time you switch cameras. Know what i mean?
Yes, but I mean DomeLight does not do that either.
If you switch Camera and want to change environment with it, then in V-Ray, you have to disable current DomeLight and enable another one, and in Corona, you have to replace current environment map with another one. It's about the same amount of clicks.
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I think it´s about automating things and not assigning stuff by hand every time. I'm a big fan of this, that's why I'm always try to use one keyed/animated cam (+CameraMod with all post processing settings) for all shots if possible. So maybe the key here is just to key the env map(s). I would try to do it like this:
Using CoronaMultimap as scene environment map, setting it to "Material", plug the Hdris (as corona bitmap) you need in the slots, key all "Frequency" to zero at frame 0, key slot 1 frequency (for camera 1) to 1.0 at frame 1, key slot 2 (for camera 2) to 1.0 at frame 2 and the rest to zero and so on for every shot which needs a different HDRI. You then have just to render the apropriate frame for the chosen camera without having to change anything manually over and over again.
Good Luck
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yes that works but what about motion blurred stills?
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Yes, but I mean DomeLight does not do that either.
If you switch Camera and want to change environment with it, then in V-Ray, you have to disable current DomeLight and enable another one, and in Corona, you have to replace current environment map with another one. It's about the same amount of clicks.
I uncheck render hidden lights in the render panel. Then I name the layers based on the cameras. That way I can turn on and off the lighting rigs with layers, which are recorded in state sets eventually
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yes that works but what about motion blurred stills?
Usually I don't use something like frame 1,2,3 but frame 10, 20, 30 and so on. This way there is enough time to MBlur stuff like cars (also keyed for a distinct frame; the car would only drive from frame 15 to 25 from/to a location suitable for frame 20 when rendering that frame to get the motion blur).
But atm in this case you also have to key the cam at least at frame 19 and 21 to stay where it is because when using a physical cam you cannot switch off camera motion blur seperately from object motion blur like Corona Render setup provides. I made a request (https://corona-renderer.com/bugs/view.php?id=2195) exactly for this reason to have the option to switch both independently in corona CameraMod, I hope CoronaCamera will have it finally.
All you need to do then is to render a range from e.g. 10 to 110 with every 10th frame activated in render setup and you can render out or submit all shot´s at once - only the resolution change is missing. And I still presume this is very hard to implement even with a dedicated CoronaCamera because so many other things depend on it, let's see :)
Good Luck
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Yes that will definitely work. Thank you. But it seems like a lot of customizing just to have different lighting conditions saved in a file. Occasionally, I merge in hdr's from old scenes and if I don't remember the keys, I may accidently produce an error.
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Yes, but I mean DomeLight does not do that either.
If you switch Camera and want to change environment with it, then in V-Ray, you have to disable current DomeLight and enable another one, and in Corona, you have to replace current environment map with another one. It's about the same amount of clicks.
I uncheck render hidden lights in the render panel. Then I name the layers based on the cameras. That way I can turn on and off the lighting rigs with layers, which are recorded in state sets eventually
I still don't get it... State Sets record state of the map in the environment slot too... :|
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Yes I just discovered that the other day! But it doesn't record the "Use Corona" scene environment. Only the 3ds max environment. The state sets just record the layers turning on and off so I don't have to reassign the hdr when I submit many cameras to the farm. Its the last step I have when setting up a scene with multiple lighting conditions. State sets are super helpful because it records the file output names, camera switching and layers. If I get a revised model, I just need to import, replace materials and render. I don't need to set up each view every single time changes are made. less clicks
But if I'm not using state sets, it's just super easy to turn a layer on and off to switch lighting as I'm working.
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The good thing would be the dirt - vray material or even the Fs today is definitely better developed than Cr.
enRich dirt support - doing a great job .. AO in CR. It has far less potential than its neighbors
http://www.enrichpro.com
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ray traced round corner shader
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I recall many feature requests about the VFB tools such as dof focus picker, get material from object, object selection, etc.
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The good thing would be the dirt - vray material or even the Fs today is definitely better developed than Cr.
enRich dirt support - doing a great job .. AO in CR. It has far less potential than its neighbors
http://www.enrichpro.com
What exactly doesn't CoronaAO do that V-RayDirt does? Last time I checked, they were nearly the same. V-RayDirt has some legacy stuff like reflection occlusion and environment occlusion back from the days when people used to fake GI with AO, but when it comes to procedural material creation, both have pretty much same feature set.
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I would love to see Phoenix fire and water sim incorporated in Corona. Get rid of all Chaos' chaos and introduce some Corona user-friendlyness to it.
HAHAHA, I would also love this. The UI is a mess in Phoenix.
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does corona have a foreground or background image loader for the VFB? That is helpful sometimes
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I +1 being able to set DOF in the VFB
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From a fellow VFX artist, personally i would like to see Cryptomatte, Deep EXR, Particle rendering (some kind of integration with TP too), OpenVDB support (Houdini sims)
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From a fellow VFX artist, personally i would like to see Cryptomatte, Deep EXR, Particle rendering (some kind of integration with TP too), OpenVDB support (Houdini sims)
Deep would be useful for sure
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Couple of things
- deep exr
- dof in vfb
- 2d displacement
- a little bit more advenced dirt map(as vray dirt)
- and of course vrayscans, but i know we will be able to use them anyway, but i dont know how you guys are going to implement in into corona(like subscribtion through your website or whatever
and the last one is a bit hard to explain or hard to imagine, but layered VFB. I mean I would love to use couple of curves or levels with masks.. but I dont know if that would be possible.
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I haven't been using vray for a few years now. (disclaimer)
As others, I agree a dome light isn't necessary for hdri.
I definitely don't miss their vfb.
The one thing I'd definitely like to see is hybrid rendering. Being able to use both gpu and cpu would be awesome.
Wishes (not sure if they'd come from vray though) : I'd like to see a better way to have atmospheric effects. The volume mtl is limited and not very intuitive. Same with sss. Haze and clouds made easy would be nice. Now it's not that intuitive and not too realistic looking either.
It'd be also useful to have the ability to use bloom and glare per object. But now we'd be heading into the ultra biased world, so it may not be good for corona...
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The antialiasing works batter in vray then in corona expecially when you need sharp detail
A mitchell netravali or catmull rom fillers should be welcome
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Alembic loader , i think it will be awesome if we can have this feature , because its possible to load a fluid mesh with velocity data, and then we can render our fluid with Motion Blur in corona.
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+1 for Alembic loader too.
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CoronaToon =)
Now it's almost impossible to render, with Corona, professional Toon rendering.
Look at also FinalToon or Pencil+
So, it will be possible, also, to make cartoon movie with Corona
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The "affect diffuse" checkbox for the lights, very useful for example when i need only extra reflection on material.
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Not a dome light but a dedicated Environment lighting tool, a more clean draft render mode (like light cache+light cache) would be useful too...my 2 cents.
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The "affect diffuse" checkbox for the lights, very useful for example when i need only extra reflection on material.
Use CoronaLight material with unchecked emit light option - does the same.
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Using CoronaMultimap as scene environment map, setting it to "Material", plug the Hdris (as corona bitmap) you need in the slots, key all "Frequency" to zero at frame 0, key slot 1 frequency (for camera 1) to 1.0 at frame 1, key slot 2 (for camera 2) to 1.0 at frame 2 and the rest to zero and so on for every shot which needs a different HDRI. You then have just to render the apropriate frame for the chosen camera without having to change anything manually over and over again.
My corona trial is expired so cannot test, but just curious how does that affect RAM consumption? Most likely that all of these hdrs are loaded for each frame rendered.
I did something similar with a script and composite texture. Not sure about RAM but it was definitely slower.
Unfortunately 3dsmax Environment map is set on render start for the whole animation sequence and no changes can be made before/after frame is rendered. So you can't just replace it with another hdr at another frame. (Since all the resources needed to render the sequence are loaded on render start)
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The "affect diffuse" checkbox for the lights, very useful for example when i need only extra reflection on material.
Use CoronaLight material with unchecked emit light option - does the same.
Thank you romullus, this is the solution i need.
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You're welcome! That's one feature less to bring from V-ray :]
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Bucket rendering, anyone? If I remember correctly, it greatly helps with reducing RAM consumption compared to rendering the whole whole image at once.
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^ Buy more Ram, F**k the bucket, whole image rendering is one of my favorite feature of Corona.
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2D displacement
vray pattern
proxy mesh visibility from vrayproxy
cryptomatte
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^ Buy more Ram, F**k the bucket, whole image rendering is one of my favorite feature of Corona.
Can you kindly point out where did I say "remove progressive rendering"?
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Bucket rendering, anyone? If I remember correctly, it greatly helps with reducing RAM consumption compared to rendering the whole whole image at once.
That's only true in single particular case, when certain geometry (in proxy) can be off-loaded and on-loaded when particular buckets aren't covering it on screen.
Buckets have been laid to forever rest and I am pretty sure are never coming back :- )
But there are other, better memory optimizations that will come to Corona. You're not alone, even my 64gb ram is screaming all the time...
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even my 64gb ram is screaming all the time...
64? really?
Maybe your textures are too big?
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even my 64gb ram is screaming all the time...
64? really?
Maybe your textures are too big?
Off-topic..
That is partly true, I use a lot of high-res maps but the biggest issue is with few Corona features (particularly displacement) and one is due to Corona/3dsMax integration ( bloated cache that is not deallocated after render finishes, try rendering scene that takes 70perc. of memory twice after each other and cancel it and you will see...).
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Bucket rendering, anyone? If I remember correctly, it greatly helps with reducing RAM consumption compared to rendering the whole whole image at once.
That's only true in single particular case, when certain geometry (in proxy) can be off-loaded and on-loaded when particular buckets aren't covering it on screen.
Buckets have been laid to forever rest and I am pretty sure are never coming back :- )
When you're doing high-res renders, the frame buffer may actually consume pretty high amount of memory (for example in a 8k render the beauty element alone consumes ~512 MB of RAM; in 30k render, it goes all the way up to ~6.7 GB). Doing a bucket rendering allows the renderer to offload most of the frame buffer to disk and keep only the currently rendered region in memory.
I wouldn't be so certain about buckets not coming back. I'm also not saying they will, but it is one possible way how to lower the memory usage.
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Ah how could I miss that one, I meant to post it but totally forgot. What I'd love to see is the Curvature shader, but I'd also strongly suggest to improve current Vray's one since it's a bit too thin right now and make it a kick-ass curvature map. I mean this should be possible and beneficial to both camps?
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VrayMaterialSelect
- for layered materials such as car paints as render element - huge need for automotive users.
Advanced CarPaintShader
- but an updated version we know from Vray. Take a look at the latest Autodesk VRED car paint shader where you can switch between 2-coated resp. 3-coated paint. The structure and the flakes behaviour is the best we know in the industry.
VRayStochasticFlakesMtl
- huge need for automotive users
Hack for using lights only for reflections and vice versa (diff a. spec hightlights only)
- maybe a special clearcoat layer which can be added to any layer mtl which reacts only for specular reflections and no specular highlights.
For automotive users this is a big restriction. You can push diffuse and spec highlights by using 3ds max stock lights but these are point lights. There is a need for plane lights.
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Apologies if any of these are redundant and to be honest not really VRAY related.
1. When you drag an image into the editor it is automatically a corona bitmap...
2. If 1 is not possible can you at least make it so I can copy and then paste on the Corona Bitmap file path box so I am not having to go manually search for it.
3. Not sure if this was removed before or if it is just not possible but some sort of "bucket" where by you set the noise level and it will just go round and render it, just so I can get a quicker idea of quality... again I am sure this was removed/dismissed before with probably good reason.
4. Perhaps a slightly different material preview to be available. I work on a 4K screen and when enlarging the material preview to see it with any real clarity it really slows everything down. I know its my fault for having a rubbish PC lol but maybe a slightly more friendly material preview to be an option?
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+1 for Alembic loader
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+1 for Alembic loader
and recently I needed to scatter stuff in particles.
So something similar to VrayInstancer would be cool..
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100 percent the biggest issue I see that corona is missing is vray's licensing model were you buy a release and get the point releases associated with that number release. Only then paying for the next number upgrade. Your present box licensing system serves as nothing more than placating those who have no interest in subscriptions but doing so in the most begrudging ugly fashion i.e offering no point releases over the lifetime of that number release. Neither of your current offerings(subs/box) would be acceptable to me at present for example.
Happy vray for modo user here, but always curious with what corona is doing.Hope some good changes come from your acquisition, congrats on becoming part of choas group its a great move imho.
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100 percent the biggest issue I see that corona is missing is vray's licensing model were you buy a release and get the point releases associated with that number release. Only then paying for the next number upgrade. Your present box licensing system serves as nothing more than placating those who have no interest in subscriptions but doing so in the most begrudging ugly fashion i.e offering no point releases over the lifetime of that number release. Neither of your current offerings(subs/box) would be acceptable to me at present for example.
Happy vray for modo user here, but always curious with what corona is doing.Hope some good changes come from your acquisition, congrats on becoming part of choas group its a great move imho.
It is actually funny, lots of people are worried we would use vray licensing model, then we get this request ;). But we are not planning to change anything, we are satisfied with our FairSaaS model, box is currently just specialty for government organizations etc.
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My biggest worry with Corona has always been the lack of GPU strategy/direction. I can understand no one has wanted to comment on the numerous occasions this has been brought up, but now that you guys suddenly have a massive infusion of GPU programming experience and potentially code, perhaps this topic could be revisited?
Could there be a GPU/hybrid version within a reasonable time frame, or is the problem the same as for Vray, i.e. it really becomes more or less a new renderer? It seems that with 11GB and newer memory optimization techniques, GPU rendering is becoming usable for more and more people.
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It is actually funny, lots of people are worried we would use vray licensing model, then we get this request ;). But we are not planning to change anything, we are satisfied with our FairSaaS model, box is currently just specialty for government organizations etc.
greatttt!
no need change it to physical key or dongle system ever
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My biggest worry with Corona has always been the lack of GPU strategy/direction. I can understand no one has wanted to comment on the numerous occasions this has been brought up, but now that you guys suddenly have a massive infusion of GPU programming experience and potentially code, perhaps this topic could be revisited?
Could there be a GPU/hybrid version within a reasonable time frame, or is the problem the same as for Vray, i.e. it really becomes more or less a new renderer? It seems that with 11GB and newer memory optimization techniques, GPU rendering is becoming usable for more and more people.
GPU/Hybrid rendering is planned check the polling in "the most wanted feature" thread
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Well, "being planned" and "being on the most wanted feature poll" are two vastly different states :)
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-Vray Bump Mtl (do not mistake with bump map)
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=16770.msg108484#msg108484
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Oh, another one I totally forgot about, sorry if it's been mentioned already: please implement glossy reflections (optional per material switch would be best), that one really adds a lot to rough reflective surfaces.
EDIT: I meant glossy fresnel, of course.
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Oh, another one I totally forgot about, sorry if it's been mentioned already: please implement glossy reflections (optional per material switch would be best), that one really adds a lot to rough reflective surfaces.
Do you mean rough fresnel or something else ?
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Ah sorry, I meant glossy fresnel, where reflections get sharper with grazing angles.
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Ah sorry, I meant glossy fresnel, where reflections get sharper with grazing angles.
Ah I was confused because this is Vray feature thread and they only implemented rough fresnel which Corona already had for some time :- ).
But glossy attenuation towards edges is fantastic feature and imho only F-Storm (and Disney) have that natively in some way.
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Ah sorry, I meant glossy fresnel, where reflections get sharper with grazing angles.
Ah I was confused because this is Vray feature thread and they only implemented rough fresnel which Corona already had for some time :- ).
But glossy attenuation towards edges is fantastic feature and imho only F-Storm (and Disney) have that natively in some way.
I'm confused on this one. I remember when Corona rolled out their PBR mode which mean you wouldn't get that white haze at glancing angles and could go low glossiness with no worries. Then VRay released 'glossy fresnel' which I thought was the same thing (but I was never sure of this)? And there is a third thing in play it sounds like only with Disney?
Could you explain further Juraj?
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Yeah there are two(or 3) things, and neither has exact name so every renderer has named it differently, or didn't give it name at all :- ).
Here is brief summary (sorry for off-topic to anyone):
- Glossiness or Roughness range : This described how rough a material can get. Previously Corona with Glossiness 0 was something equivalent to 0.4 in fact, it was still very glossy, definitely not fit for paper/sand/etc.. SOLVED in both Corona and Vray.
- Specularity intensity based on Fresnel: Both Vray and Corona had BRDF which didn't properly dim the specular intensity when glossiness was getting lower. So 0 glossiness was literally shining (the haze), when it was supposed to be almost fully flat. SOLVED in both Corona and Vray
- Glossiness value changing based on fresnel term. This is effect that makes materials more glossy (mirrory) towards the grazing angle even if they are rather dull otherwise. Disney calls it "retro-reflection" in short, and it can actually work both ways, making dull/rough materials more shiny at grazing angle, and opposite, shiny materials getting little bit more dim at grazing angle.
Neither Vray or Corona supports the last feature through some exposed parameter. F-Storm currently does support it, although I don't think it's part of BRDF, so you can simulate the same effect yourself manually by placing your glossy node network (or simple texture/value) into fresnel node.
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Yeah there are two(or 3) things, and neither has exact name so every renderer has named it differently, or didn't give it name at all :- ).
Here is brief summary (sorry for off-topic to anyone):
- Glossiness or Roughness range : This described how rough a material can get. Previously Corona with Glossiness 0 was something equivalent to 0.4 in fact, it was still very glossy, definitely not fit for paper/sand/etc.. SOLVED in both Corona and Vray.
- Specularity intensity based on Fresnel: Both Vray and Corona had BRDF which didn't properly dim the specular intensity when glossiness was getting lower. So 0 glossiness was literally shining (the haze), when it was supposed to be almost fully flat. SOLVED in both Corona and Vray
- Glossiness value changing based on fresnel term. This is effect that makes materials more glossy (mirrory) towards the grazing angle even if they are rather dull otherwise. Disney calls it "retro-reflection" in short, and it can actually work both ways, making dull/rough materials more shiny at grazing angle, and opposite, shiny materials getting little bit more dim at grazing angle.
Neither Vray or Corona supports the last feature through some exposed parameter. F-Storm currently does support it, although I don't think it's part of BRDF, so you can simulate the same effect yourself manually by placing your glossy node network (or simple texture/value) into fresnel node.
Ah perfect, thank you Juraj that's very helpful. So I'm guessing that the 2nd point is what Corona calls PBR mode and VRay calls 'Glossy Fresnel'?
https://labs.chaosgroup.com/index.php/rendering-rd/understanding-glossy-fresnel/
Point 3 sounds interesting. I wonder what types of materials this would be useful on?
Cheers,
Daniel
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Yup, Corona called it PBR because we had neither the range (1) nor the spec (2). Vray called it rough fresnel because they only missed the (2).
Regarding 3 I pondered that idea myself and you can check the examples in Disney paper (the latest appended one about their PBR progress) where they took a look at the MERL data set ( 100 scanned BRDFs from real-world materials ).
It's definitely not universal as not all materials show it, and not even the same category ( it would be logical if it was limited for example to composite, coated type of materials, but it isn't).
It seems like it's very much "if you can see it with your eyes, it's there" kind of effect, so it would be more artistic control.
I personally used it so far dominantly on woods. Woods are often (unless polished or coated) rather rough materials, but at grazing angle they can shine rather strongly. Though lot of this has to do with special anisotropy we can't simulate yet.
I also add it to plastics.
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Yup, Corona called it PBR because we had neither the range (1) nor the spec (2). Vray called it rough fresnel because they only missed the (2).
Regarding 3 I pondered that idea myself and you can check the examples in Disney paper (the latest appended one about their PBR progress) where they took a look at the MERL data set ( 100 scanned BRDFs from real-world materials ).
It's definitely not universal as not all materials show it, and not even the same category ( it would be logical if it was limited for example to composite, coated type of materials, but it isn't).
It seems like it's very much "if you can see it with your eyes, it's there" kind of effect, so it would be more artistic control.
I personally used it so far dominantly on woods. Woods are often (unless polished or coated) rather rough materials, but at grazing angle they can shine rather strongly. Though lot of this has to do with special anisotropy we can't simulate yet.
I also add it to plastics.
Great! All very clear, I've been wondering about that for a while. Thanks!
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-Vray Bump Mtl (do not mistake with bump map)
https://forum.corona-renderer.com/index.php?topic=16770.msg108484#msg108484
+1 for BumpMtl - I used to use all the time with VRay.
VRay Plane / infinity plane equivalent.
'Reset on render end..' option for CoronaDR (we regularly have problems where we have to go around all nodes and restart CoronaDR for them to start picking up)
+1 for Aerial Perpective
VRay Environment Fog or improvements to current volumetrics
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Buy more Ram, F**k the bucket
This is an amazing sentence and should be the corona mantra.
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I moved from Vray to Corona a year ago. I work exclusively with archviz, and often close to the architect, which means a lot of sketching and trying out early design drafts.
There are so far only three things I really miss from Vray.
1. Vray toon. Great to get those "hidden line" renders that work very well when doing "npr" images.
2. Clean masks. Vray always produce perfectly clean edges on the render elements. Corona's are very noisy, and working with them in PS is not as nice.
3. 2D displacement. Often worked even better than 3D displacement, was quick to render and used little memory. Being the memory hog it is, Corona should really try to implement this technology.
Then there are little things, like being able to use the "shellac mode" in the layered material. In spite of it being "unrealistic" it's very useful for creating a coat of varnish on another material.
The aerial perspective was rather nice too, but I think Corona's global fog is better, even though it's not "free" the way aerial persp is.
Vray plane was also rather useful.
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Vray clipper!!!
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The questions is simple - V-Ray has solved a lot of problems before us, and now we have access to those solutions. What feature that V-Ray already has would you like to see in Corona? Note that this is just for our inspiration, and we don't have time to do much porting before 1.7 release, so we are talking about 1.8 and later
DEEP DATA SUPPORT
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1.Angle dependent material glossiness. (Vray Material Glossy Fresnel option)
2. Dynamic and Auto memory limit. To Have option to limit RAM usage on machines with less than 32gb ram. It will make starting slower but renderer will not run out of memory. Maybe You Can Even improve this feature to be better than in vray.
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Also it would be great to have Volume Fog Height option to set, because now there is no option to limit fog in height. Applying Volume Mtl to A box with limited height does not work, corona does not render fog correctly. But when camera is outside of the box it is rendering correct. It was in roadmap i think but disapeared called- better determining inside/outside medium
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Only thing I miss from vray is clamp output. That was really easy way to remove fireflies.
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Only thing I miss from vray is clamp output. That was really easy way to remove fireflies.
hm, i'm not sure, but i think highlight-clamping is for you?
https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/12000006462-what-is-highlight-clamping-
i also experienced that lowering the MSI helps a bit with the fireflies...
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hm, i'm not sure, but i think highlight-clamping is for you?
https://coronarenderer.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/12000006462-what-is-highlight-clamping-
i also experienced that lowering the MSI helps a bit with the fireflies...
I can't beleive didn't see this option before. Also it improve antialiasing. sure it will help a lot. thank you so much.
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Not a Vray feature, but I would love to be able to select material from the Corona Frame Buffer.
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You've been a Modo user at some point in time haven't you! ;)
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Infinite plane seems to be often requested.
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1. Crpytomatte
2. VRscans shaders
3. Nvidia MDL
4. AxF support for x-rite captured device
This would be awesome for automotive and product viz
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1. Crpytomatte
2. VRscans shaders
3. Nvidia MDL
4. AxF support for x-rite captured device
This would be awesome for automotive and product viz
When you mention AxF, do you use that in your work (do you guys have the scanner?) ? I've been on their website few days ago but it doesn't seem like they have library of their own. Unlike VRScans.
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@Juraj
No Xrite don't have a library of there own.
I got a newsletter from Algorithmic about SD's ability to process and adjust Axf files.
Since I work for a large automotive viz company, where all is about accuracy, this workflow of scanning material samples on our own (and not depend on VRscans) would be very interesting.
Cheers
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Why are you requesting MDL? Have you actually tried and found it useful? Or are you requesting it just because you know it exists?
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afaik MDL is something like a global material library from iray which makes another renderer able to connect / use it including vray.
PerBergs is an professional automotive product visualizer and I guess he is an iray user too.
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@Juraj
No Xrite don't have a library of there own.
I got a newsletter from Algorithmic about SD's ability to process and adjust Axf files.
Since I work for a large automotive viz company, where all is about accuracy, this workflow of scanning material samples on our own (and not depend on VRscans) would be very interesting.
Cheers
Please keep in mind that Chaosgroup is planning to make the scanner available to the public once the patenting is done and they have found a manufacturer. I would buy one instantly.
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Hi all,
Thanks for the many replies and questions.
As Christa correctly assumes, I am pro automotive viz artist. For those type of companies, and in my opinion, more and more product manufacturers are requesting this kind of accuracy and detail.
The most straightforward way is to capture the material.
But after it can be influenced anymore. Enter AxF and it's support by Substance.
As for the format(-s). I don't really care much about which format. MDL, AxF, Vrscans,...
I am interested in the capturing device, it's connection to a Corona and the ability to adjust or influence these scans after it has been scanned. That's why I found the Siggraph presentation/demonstration from Substance designer very interesting. The Axf format can be opened and influenced in SD, which is a hugely beneficial. Hopefully it works like they claim it does.
Only size of these scans is sometimes difficult. Some fabrics have very large tiles in real life. Like, an entire seat.
I would very much welcome an Chaosgroups device. Why not? But it has to be adjustable later on.
Cheers
Per
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The VrScans are adjustable after capturing. You can affect the paint color, the overall color, even feed textures into it. Apply new bump maps using the VrayBumpMtl, control the multipliers for reflection, lighting etc. all in the VrScans material. It is exactly what you need.
In comparison, X-Rites Total Appearance Capture is way inferior in my opinion, I had both for testing. TAC only in Vred, though. Until now, I didn't know that this might change with Substance Designer. Thanks for the hint.
Per, if you want I can send a high-res image of a car interior to you. I am quite sure you will not notice any tiling.
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Hi Kosso,
Sounds great.
I mean great you where able to test it.
As for SD. I put here a link to the presentation I viewed.
http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/siggraph/2017/video/sig1706-sebastien-deguy-nicolas-paulhac-marc-ellens-scan-to-materials.html?utm_source=Substance+for+Architecture+%26+Design&utm_campaign=5def6dced2-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_10_24&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_4a29f8976b-5def6dced2-331652481&mc_cid=5def6dced2&mc_eid=29c39dac33 (http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/siggraph/2017/video/sig1706-sebastien-deguy-nicolas-paulhac-marc-ellens-scan-to-materials.html?utm_source=Substance+for+Architecture+%26+Design&utm_campaign=5def6dced2-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_10_24&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_4a29f8976b-5def6dced2-331652481&mc_cid=5def6dced2&mc_eid=29c39dac33)
Lot of commercial sales stuff talk but the demo starts at min 25.
It maybe explains you better what I mean.
Cheers
Per
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I watched the video from the link you posted. Well, VrScans can do exactly the same. Minus the tiling part, because all the VrScans tile perfectly well from the start.
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Thanks for clearing that out! :)
So, that means Vrscans in Corona and buying that scanning machine from Chaosgroup for me;))
Luckily Christmas is coming :)
Cheers
Per
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100 percent the biggest issue I see that corona is missing is vray's licensing model were you buy a release and get the point releases associated with that number release. Only then paying for the next number upgrade. Your present box licensing system serves as nothing more than placating those who have no interest in subscriptions but doing so in the most begrudging ugly fashion i.e offering no point releases over the lifetime of that number release. Neither of your current offerings(subs/box) would be acceptable to me at present for example.
Happy vray for modo user here, but always curious with what corona is doing.Hope some good changes come from your acquisition, congrats on becoming part of choas group its a great move imho.
Wow, that's a biggy.....
I'm currently trialling Corona and am confident I'll end up purchasing it (well I was until I read your comment) - so if I've understood you correctly, I wouldn't now go and purchase a boxed version (my preference is always to purchase, never to rent), if it didn't also entitle me to any updates / fixes in between major releases......
Definitely agree that this needs refining (imho).
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Hi. I would recommend that you take a look at Coronas website yourself regarding this. You can expand a Box license with an upgrade subscription.
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Hi. I would recommend that you take a look at Coronas website yourself regarding this. You can expand a Box license with an upgrade subscription.
Yes, you were right to advise that, as basically Photomg1 was wrong.
A perpetual licence version of corona would suit me perfectly as I would then only pay a relatively small yearly maintenance fee to keep current.
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Compatybility with plugin Vray Pattern
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Compatybility with plugin Vray Pattern
Already tried, although the plugin has "Vray" in name, it is not created nor developed by chaosgroup, so they cannot help us here :(
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_Glossy fresnel
_Cryptomatte
_Masking elements visible in reflections/refractions
_Coated material
_Deep exr
_2D displacement (planned)
_OSL support
_caustics (planned)
_Working env. overrides
_ Ondra and Vlado scanned 3d models for material preview
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- VrayClipper Objects
- multi-matte elements with option for refraction and reflection in materials
I did some feature Request before - but as you asked so nicely :D
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I have a few suggestions
1) Would be great if the bump map had the ability to specify bump amount in scene units. I think vray must normalize the input map to be able to do this.
2) 2D displacement
3) Auto normal mapping during displacement
4) Toon shader - the workarounds don't look decent enough IMO.
5) I wish the Warp texture would work - this was one of the reasons I switched from mental ray to Vray. Third party shaders seemed to just work. It seems to work as expected sometimes but no others. An incredibly useful map IMO.
6) GPU lens effects and denoising.
7) As far as I can tell, within Corona, materials don't display in viewport at high res regardless of viewport properties?
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Compatybility with plugin Vray Pattern
Already tried, although the plugin has "Vray" in name, it is not created nor developed by chaosgroup, so they cannot help us here :(
Well, I understand that, appreciate your response.
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I'm not sure if this have been already suggested but it would be extremely useful to have adaptive lighting in Corona. Using this in Vray I'm able to render scene with thousand of lights basically without any slowdown.
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I'm not sure if this have been already suggested but it would be extremely useful to have adaptive lighting in Corona. Using this in Vray I'm able to render scene with thousand of lights basically without any slowdown.
I believe the new light solver does this or at least i remember reading about probabilistic lighting somewhere here.
I think you have to check the box but it might be default in v2. I think in v3 its standard
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Still needs checking in Corona 3, off by default until Corona 4 (when we do some last fine tuning and fixing of bugs and edge cases).
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Since Corona now almost completely supports Phoenix FD, deep EXR output is by far my number one feature i want from Vray.
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Vray feature to get asap in Corona : Alpha seen in reflexions / refractions, please !!!
I'm spending too much time creating fake alphas (with black / white / mirrors) pictures and to put them in the alpha of the rgb image...
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Thank you everyone for your opinions, I am moving this to resolved, and we will continue with 1 thread per request as before. Most stuff from here was absorbed into our long term roadmap and/or trello board
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Clipper option or similar for slicing geometry in render would be great...
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Clipper option or similar for slicing geometry in render would be great...
Its been requested since 2014 and was on the trello but it got moved again and again.