Author Topic: Bucket Renderer in 1.4 ???  (Read 22300 times)

2016-03-29, 10:02:53
Reply #15

Matej Ovsenek

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I totally digg ya but let me try to rephrase my point in a different way so maybe you'll understand what I am talking about.
.....

I still didn't get from your explanation the advantage of bucket mode.

Almost sounded like: If I render with progressive mode I need to wait 10 seconds until the render region clears out, but if I render with the bucket, I need to wait 10 seconds until the render region in the bucket clears out. So it's better.
Because 10 seconds are faster than 10 seconds. Or something :)

sounds almost like superstition :)
A similar case like this was some years ago on Steinberg forum. They changed the skin and UI colors for Cubase (audio multitrack app). And even though the engineers and programers themselves told the users the audio engine is the same, the users there contradicted themselves for days that the new version sounds better, others said no it sounds worse.. and so on)

Don't call something you can't understand superstition, it's just about explaining it simply enough for all to understand.

You're not thinking far enough. You're thinking 100% rendered on 100% of the region. That is the same with bucket and progressive and you are right.

But with bucket you don't need that, you sometimes need only a small fraction rendered on 100% quality, in scene, to test materials.

It takes 10 seconds to clear a region on progressive for 64passess. For the same region, it takes just 1 second to render 10% part of that region on 64passes. By then you can maybe already see, for instance, if your glossiness map is okay and stop the render.... while on progressive you still need to wait the whole 10, maybe 9 seconds to clear the noise in the glossiness for the whole 100% of the image.

This demands for more small render regions that you need to do, the more you need to wait on parsing and building acc structure, so the whole process takes a lot longer.
Bucket mode should be updated to follow mouse ponter, so the checking would be even faster, without the need to do more render regions, and in my opinion should not be discarded as it seems - the lesser option in the adaptivity war.

Because, believe it or not, for some, bucket mode was not about adaptivity at all. I usually rendered 1render pass on 64initial passess, didn't even know bucket adaptivity ever worked...

Someone mentioned IR, but I don't know what kind of hardware you guys use, but on some consumer desktop it's useless for quality control in a built scene, way too many slowdowns, only usefull on shaderballs, small scenes or extremely small regions on large scenes.

If still not clear, .... I don't know how else to explain it without doing some video or a diagram for you :)

You're all thinking "adaptivity war", and me and nkilar are thinking "workflow optimization"

Still, we'll see what 1.4 brings us in terms of everything written on this topic.
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2016-03-29, 15:10:12
Reply #16

sebastian___

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Bucket mode should be updated to follow mouse ponter, so the checking would be even faster,

It's still not clear for me, but probably that's because I haven't worked with Corona and even less so with the old version with the bucket mode. But I was still curios and trying to understand/learn the benefit of a bucket mode vs progressive.

I was gonna mention that - if the bucket would follow the mouse pointer that would be indeed a benefit, but as far as I know only vray has that.

 But this could be a nice feature request for Corona - a movable render region in the progressive render. So you can have a render region and able to move it, without pressing render again, and the renderer will start rendering that new region without clearing the previous region. Also able to adjust the size while rendering.

2016-04-12, 18:13:17
Reply #17

Matej Ovsenek

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just saw this:


I am calm now. :)

great work :D
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2016-04-12, 22:59:08
Reply #18

Nejc Kilar

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Agree with the above ! :)
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2016-07-03, 13:06:26
Reply #19

Ahmednibo

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some times when you have heavy scenes (architectural visualization for instance) and your machine is out of memory then the bucket render might be a solution.

2016-07-03, 16:39:14
Reply #20

romullus

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Ondra, what if you bring bucket engine selection back to UI, but that mode wouldn't do anything more than simply revealing VFB in buckets? Would that make people happier? :]
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2016-07-03, 17:49:56
Reply #21

maru

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Ondra, what if you bring bucket engine selection back to UI, but that mode wouldn't do anything more than simply revealing VFB in buckets? Would that make people happier? :]
I was thinking it could be a good idea too. So basically region render which would automatically jump to different places in a pattern. :)

(btw I asked Ondra about this some time ago, and the answer was nope)
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2016-07-03, 20:39:38
Reply #22

Juraj

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Because it's ridiculous imho :- ) The moment you introduce "Placebo" feature, a considerable amount of people will assume it does cause a difference, even if the tooltip said otherwise.
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2016-07-03, 21:04:05
Reply #23

zuliban

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im also a user who likes more bucket than progressive at least in 1.3 but if vray 3.4 have both progressive and buckets both with the same adaptivity i wonder why corona can't have this.
a bucket render with the new adaptivty from 1.4 would be sweet ,most users from vray never use progressive even if the results practically are the same i wonder why maybe we are too used to buckets.

2016-07-04, 13:01:06
Reply #24

FrostKiwi

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im also a user who likes more bucket than progressive at least in 1.3 but if vray 3.4 have both progressive and buckets both with the same adaptivity i wonder why corona can't have this.
a bucket render with the new adaptivty from 1.4 would be sweet ,most users from vray never use progressive even if the results practically are the same i wonder why maybe we are too used to buckets.
There exists no technical benefit to bucket rendering.
As such, supporting two methods at the same time, that deliver the exact same result in the exact same time is time wasted developing new features.

Buckets were used to test out adaptivity in it's early stages. Now it is fully implemented and there is no need for the old and compared to know, simply bad adaptivity implementation.

But then again...
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2016-07-04, 13:29:46
Reply #25

sebastian___

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Lol at "placebo" features.
And next a second "render" button placed in the lower part of the screen. But this one has a green color. So maybe it will be faster ;)

2016-07-04, 16:25:32
Reply #26

Rotem

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A long time ago when I started a job as a 3D generalist, my supervisor told me that in order to make renders go faster, he opens the Windows task manager, and continuously holds down the F5 key.
This refreshed the CPU usage graph and made it look like the usage is more consistently at 100%.

Of course no one wants to hold down F5 all day so he cleverly automated the process by putting a weight on that keyboard key.

This taught me that developers can not rely on even the most basic assumptions about user understanding and behavior.

2016-07-04, 16:36:57
Reply #27

zuliban

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thank you SairesArt i understand that there is none now, i think it has more to do with the workflow rather than speed/quality.

2016-07-04, 16:44:44
Reply #28

maru

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There might be some psychological aspect in bucket rendering. You see the fully rendered image pop up square by square. Another thing is that you have to move the render region manually, and buckets do this automatically, but it's hard for me to think of any other "advantages". But maybe someone will eventually come up with a sensible reason. :)

my supervisor told me that in order to make renders go faster, he opens the Windows task manager, and continuously holds down the F5 key.
Holy shit. Did he actually force you to do this too? :D
I only remember someone telling me that randomly moving the mouse cursor over the screen speeds up installers. That could be psychological too, as it was probably less boring than just staring at the progress bar. Same thing with bucket rendering "follow mouse" option - the eventual rendering time of the whole image will be the same, but with the buckets following the cursor it's much more fun. ;)

...I wonder if we would get positive feedback about Corona's rendering speed after lowering the default VFB refresh time...
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2016-07-04, 16:55:08
Reply #29

Juraj

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...I wonder if we would get positive feedback about Corona's rendering speed after lowering the default VFB refresh time...

And can it affect... ? The tooltip says something along those lines.

I lower it (or "rise" ) for high-res renders because I can't stand the stuttering but also because those renders take hours so such minute differences aren't worth. But then I forget to turn in back when I do quick tests and have to restart render...
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