Author Topic: Tonemapping - Plz Halp  (Read 115745 times)

2020-05-05, 20:16:05
Reply #225

Designerman77

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Regarding those three test pics ( VRay sRGB / VRay ACES / VRay curves ), in the first moment my eyes went to Vray + curves.
But after short comparison, one realizes that looking at the ACES-pic takes much less effort from your eyes.
This is exactly the effect I notice in renders with lighting / contrasts / colors that feel "right" and "natural".

2020-05-05, 20:44:28
Reply #226

Fluss

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Yes, gradations are way smoother. I think sRGB EOTF  is fucking with light to shadow transition.
« Last Edit: 2020-05-05, 21:04:52 by Fluss »

2020-05-05, 21:24:31
Reply #227

cjwidd

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I've been using <1.0 HC, as is described in Dubcat's ACES emulation settings, and it *feels* like it brings back dynamic range, i.e. the image looks more punchy, more depth

2020-05-05, 22:36:36
Reply #228

Designerman77

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I've been using <1.0 HC, as is described in Dubcat's ACES emulation settings, and it *feels* like it brings back dynamic range, i.e. the image looks more punchy, more depth

Pretty cool! Tried it out right now in one of those sh**ty tiny bathroom scenes.
Indeed it punches up that boring, grayish overlay.

It burns the highlights, of course, but even after increasing filmic, one still has enough contrast.

Why haven't I tried this before? :))))


Is there a link to Dubcat´s ACES emulation you mentioned?

« Last Edit: 2020-05-05, 22:59:13 by Designerman77 »

2020-05-05, 22:53:43
Reply #229

Fluss

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I've been using <1.0 HC, as is described in Dubcat's ACES emulation settings, and it *feels* like it brings back dynamic range, i.e. the image looks more punchy, more depth

I never tried those settings. I have to admit they sound completely nonsense for me, on paper at least. Maybe the combination with filmic highlight counterbalances the 0.7 HC compression. I'll give it a go tho, as Dubcat always conducted is tests rigorously and always delivered good stuff. Settings are attached for those wondering.

2020-05-05, 23:11:39
Reply #230

Designerman77

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I've been using <1.0 HC, as is described in Dubcat's ACES emulation settings, and it *feels* like it brings back dynamic range, i.e. the image looks more punchy, more depth

I never tried those settings. I have to admit they sound completely nonsense for me, on paper at least. Maybe the combination with filmic highlight counterbalances the 0.7 HC compression. I'll give it a go tho, as Dubcat always conducted is tests rigorously and always delivered good stuff. Settings are attached for those wondering.


Thanks Fluss! Had just googled it... sorry guys for stupid asking. :)

Have tried those settings. Filmic highlights and filmic shadows on 1... hmmm... makes the image look a flat, as we all know.
But who knows, maybe that's the proper base for an efficient work in post???

We should check it.

However... HC lower than 1 seems to be the magic stick ! :))))))

Thanks, cjwidd !
Now that's what I call a great discussion leading to great sharing of knowledge.

2020-05-05, 23:15:18
Reply #231

hldemi

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I've been using <1.0 HC, as is described in Dubcat's ACES emulation settings, and it *feels* like it brings back dynamic range, i.e. the image looks more punchy, more depth

I never tried those settings. I have to admit they sound completely nonsense for me, on paper at least. Maybe the combination with filmic highlight counterbalances the 0.7 HC compression. I'll give it a go tho, as Dubcat always conducted is tests rigorously and always delivered good stuff. Settings are attached for those wondering.

I have bought this Bertrand Benoit scene ( see attachment ) and many of his cameras have 0.5 HC. This makes them much more realistic.

2020-05-05, 23:20:10
Reply #232

Designerman77

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I gave it a spin in Photoshop.

I have the impression ( have not double checked I´t yet ) that with Dubcat´s HC 0,6 , even in the shitty 8 bit JPG there was plenty of information in the "lost" highlights,
which could be brought back to life in PS.

Such effect I only know from my Fuji X100 camera which gives out JPGs that behave more like a RAW in post.

2020-05-05, 23:21:51
Reply #233

Designerman77

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I have bought this Bertrand Benoit scene ( see attachment ) and many of his cameras have 0.5 HC. This makes them much more realistic.
[/quote]


Ahaaaaa ! :)
Now I understand where all that dynamic in many top renders might have come from. At least probably in a certain percentage.

2020-05-05, 23:26:31
Reply #234

cjwidd

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Yeah, just to clarify about the HC < 1.0 suggestion:

There is no algorithmic approach for flmic highlights, in my opinion - by default I leave them at 0.

Dubcat ACES emulation calls for filmic shadows = 1.0 and filmic highlights = 1.0, but in my experience, this does not lead to a desirable look. Moreover, Dubcat has also suggested not using filmic shadows in combination with his filmic LUTs (i.e. wonky contrast), so filmic highlights and filmic shadows seem to be a sort of "season to taste" option, rather than an option I (personally) lean into, as opposed to contrast, or highlight compression, which I adjust strongly.

If anyone has other tips / suggestions like this, I would be happy to hear about them

2020-05-05, 23:27:24
Reply #235

hldemi

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I have bought this Bertrand Benoit scene ( see attachment ) and many of his cameras have 0.5 HC. This makes them much more realistic.


Ahaaaaa ! :)
Now I understand where all that dynamic in many top renders might have come from. At least probably in a certain percentage.
[/quote]

And Bertrand figured it out few years ago. Just compensate with lowering exposure and contrast since going with HC under 1 pushes those parameters up ( not on paper so it might bypass some other bad byproducts of those ). This might be a way to increase contrast without increasing contrast if you get me.

2020-05-05, 23:32:37
Reply #236

Designerman77

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And Bertrand figured it out few years ago. Just compensate with lowering exposure and contrast since going with HC under 1 pushes those parameters up ( not on paper so it might bypass some other bad byproducts of those ). This might be a way to increase contrast without increasing contrast if you get me.
[/quote]


Yep, how to not understand that? :)
However, I kind of wonder that this is not a standard setting in render engines yet...


I'm working on a job in parallel while reading here and applied those settings to the scene.
Gonna keep that 0.6 / 0.7 HC as standard as often as possible.

2020-05-05, 23:38:10
Reply #237

lupaz

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I have bought this Bertrand Benoit scene ( see attachment ) and many of his cameras have 0.5 HC. This makes them much more realistic.

That's a rather dark image though. Not many clients would accept it like that. What if you had to brighten it up?

Does he use filmic highlight?

2020-05-05, 23:38:43
Reply #238

cjwidd

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@hldemi

FYI, you should begin typing your response outside of the [/quote] snippet for proper formatting

2020-05-05, 23:39:11
Reply #239

hldemi

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Take a look at this also made in Corona ( you probably seen it already)
https://www.behance.net/gallery/42186689/Apoco77-House

What is similar to Bertrands scene is extreme highlight burn from outside ( by going under 1 HC ) . This however gives this dynamic range inside that is IMO worth the trade. And this burn can be bypassed by corona tonemap control texture map.