Author Topic: Beta 2 C4D - Strong Noise in rounded Edges !  (Read 3037 times)

2019-01-09, 00:08:24

Designerman77

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Since switching to Beta 2 - C4D, strong noise / artifacts appear on all rounded edges !
This happens on native C4D-geometry, as well as on imported ones - no difference.

It only gets reduced by much longer render times... not good!

In the previous Beta version (21-12-2017) the rounded edges worked perfectly !
But the older Betas dont work on C4D R20 !???!

Can it be a bug in Beta2 ?

Makes it impossible to work like that. I hope the official release version does not has such bugs.


Thankful for any suggestion how to fix it.


Screenshots and the original C4D R20 - file attached.


My Systems:

iMac Pro (2018) - Xeon 8 Core
32 GB Ram
8 GB GPU
OSX: High Sierra


iMac i7 (2012) . 3,4 / 3,9 GHZ
32 GB Ram
2 GB GPU
OSX: El Capitan


Same Probleme on both machines !


2019-01-09, 13:22:46
Reply #1

Beanzvision

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Hi there, Have you tried increasing the render time or passes to something like 50? Also, have you tried increasing the samples in the round edges? I see that you have two HDRI stacked on each other? Why? Lastly, you might not need a portal with such a large opening, it's more suited to smaller openings.
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2019-01-09, 16:11:31
Reply #2

Designerman77

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Hi and thank you for your quick reply!

Yes, tried increasing the sample on the round edges. No improvement...

Increasing render time up to 2x / 3x cannot be a „solution“.
One doesn’t buy a fast machine and then needs to double the render time.

As mentioned, in the older Beta the edges were always perfect also with minimal render times.
Also no matter how many HDRs you „stack“.
Neither a portal made any difference. Same issue in other scenes with small windows & portals.

I‘m writing from my mobile right now.

Will try it out without portal and with one HDR when back in the office.

Would wonder if this made any difference.

Will give you feedback if it solves anything.
You don’t notice this issue in your scenes?


Greetings!


2019-01-09, 17:51:52
Reply #3

Designerman77

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Hi again! :)

Here is another test, following your suggestions:

1. Only one HDR
2. No portal
3. 50 passes
4. 99 samples

Using maximum denoise amount (1) shows that it seems like a denoising issue.
Denoiser is not completely applied in the edges...



Greetings!


2019-01-09, 18:16:35
Reply #4

Designerman77

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Here another example which shows how much worse the round edge-tag works in the Beta 2.

In this case it is even the release version, not Beta 2 !


2019-01-09, 21:39:27
Reply #5

Designerman77

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Tested it also in R16, in order to exclude that it might be an R20-issue only.

In R16 - the same issue with Beta 2.

If the older Beta is re-installed, edges work just fine again.

So, 99,9% probability, it is a problem of Beta 2 & the final release.

:(

Have render jobs to do in the next days.
The free-licences for older Beta will officially expire on January 11th... so one has to purchase the released version.

And if that will also have this bug on the rounded edges - and it looks like it has this bug - how to work then?
To render until 5% noise every time? Then for what is the denoiser? :) :/

I think the programmers at Corona should urgently check this function.

2019-01-09, 22:25:00
Reply #6

TomG

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Not sure where you read that the beta licenses expire on the 11th - the betas will remain usable for 45 days from the release of the final, just like the free trial.
Tom Grimes | chaos-corona.com
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2019-01-09, 23:13:10
Reply #7

Designerman77

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Hi Tom,

thanks for your information!
I assumed that the Betas will expire in two days, from what is shown in the "about Corona" window...

However, I gladly DO want to purchase the release version. Corona team did a great job on adapting it for C4D!
Been waiting for it since 2 years.

I was fiddling around today, trying to find out what causes the noise on the rounded edges.
Played with all performance settings in the render settings, filter type, samples, replaced HDR with Corona native lighting system, rotated HDR, optimised the edges, the mesh, etc... :)))
Nope...


Will keep on experimenting.

Cheers!


2019-01-10, 00:56:25
Reply #8

TomG

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We'll keep looking here too! On the betas though, should be safe to use those for a while yet if needed.

One thought comes to mind. There was a change made to how bump mapping is processed by the denoiser, such that the denoiser does less denoising with bump maps in order to preserve the detail / effect of the bump map. This was introduced in the Corona 3 core, and I wonder if that happened at the time that you see a difference in the round edges (which is a bump mapping effect). Would be odd not to have heard reports on the 3ds Max side first though, so it is just a thought.
Tom Grimes | chaos-corona.com
Product Manager | contact us

2019-01-10, 14:06:08
Reply #9

Designerman77

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Hi Tom,

your assumption about the reduced denoising on bump maps seems to be correct!

I tested it on the attached scene. It proves your theory to be right.

I strongly recommend & ask the developer team to eliminate / or improve this function - though the intention behind it is surely a good one.

In the daily wokflow, one needs to do test-renders as quickly as possible - with a maximum amount of details - such as rounded edges !!!
To have more bump map-details in the final render is a nice thing, but not the most important one in the workflow.

It is far more important to get test renders with clean round edges and not totally fuzzy looking bumps within 30 seconds, so one can estimate a scene.
THIS is what really saves time in the daily workflow - and not some more details in a final render of 40 minutes.

I hope this will be changed by the Corona developers as quickly as possible.

Cheers!

Lucian


2019-01-10, 14:50:19
Reply #10

TomG

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Just to confirm that we have this issue logged and tracked, for the core Corona team (as it is in the core code, not the C4D specific code). That does mean it will have to be fixed in the core, then propagate over to C4D. One thought for in the meantime, the Fast GPU Denoising shouldn't have this issue (as it isn't "clever" so is unaware of bump mapping or not), so might provide an alternative.
Tom Grimes | chaos-corona.com
Product Manager | contact us

2019-01-10, 15:08:40
Reply #11

Designerman77

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Hi Tom,

thanks for your reply!

You guys at Corona are simply mearvellous. I am sure that - as always - your developer team will quickly solve this issue.

Regarding GPU-denoising: I thought it only works on NVIDIA cards?
My Macs have AMD.


One question: is it possible to install the older Beta (21.12.2017) into R20 ?
Somehow it didn´t work at me... only the latest Beta & official release gets installed into the R20 plugin folder.

Greetings!

2019-01-10, 15:29:27
Reply #12

TomG

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Ah, yes, you'd need an NVIDIA card. Sorry, didn't look back to see that this was on a Mac.

You can unpack the betas and copy the folders manually, if you wanted to install an earlier version into R20. Cheers!
Tom Grimes | chaos-corona.com
Product Manager | contact us

2019-01-10, 16:17:04
Reply #13

Designerman77

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Hi Tom,

thank you for the quick answering.

I was aware of the manual unpacking and copying method.

Just don´t have a Beta Version that is compatible with R20.
The latest which I have is core 1.7 - hotfix 2.
That seems to go only until R19.

Any Beta that came a bit later, works with R20 - but without the "new" denoising method? :)

Thanks & many greetings!