3ds Max vs Cinema 4d Comparison

[musaemrekorkut]

Hello everyone

First of all, I have been using Corona via 3ds max for a long time and I would like to mention a few things I have experienced.

Recently, while browsing a model sales page, I saw very nice rendering photos and wanted to examine the profile of the person who made them. Frankly, I was surprised because we were both using corona render, but my renders were not even close to his renders.

When I looked into it a little more, I realized that it was using corona through Cinema 4d and I wanted to focus on that and try it.

(I would like to say that there are minor differences in lighting and camera settings, but I don't think much will change)

I wanted to share the results with you and the corona team.

[James Vella]

I use both 3dsmax and C4D, I haven't seen any difference at all when the scenes are setup 1:1.

Your cameras, lighting and tone mapping don't match. What are you comparing?

[musaemrekorkut]

What I'm comparing is that the texture quality and appearance differs between applications even though I use the same material library.

[James Vella]

Can you share screenshots of your material setup in 3dsmax and c4d?

[musaemrekorkut]

I would like to point out that I didn't record the scenes because I did it for testing purposes, but I may do it again if I'm wrong.

[James Vella]

These are just preview images of the library, I mean can you show the material settings, bump strength, material values etc. Since you are using Cosmos assets then that might be an issue that the Corona team can investigate since I use my own libraries.

[musaemrekorkut]

I will share all the details after recreating the scenes. Stay tuned, thank you.

[romullus]

Make sure that all scene components are matching as close as possible, that includes render setup, material settings, texture filtering, lighting, camera angles and so on. Otherwise your comparison is pretty much meaningless. Overall, i think some tiny differences might be expected, due to some specifics of renderer integration in a DCC, but if you're proficient user in all the programs that you're comparing, you should be able to get virtually indistinguishable result.

[James Vella]

if you're proficient user in all the programs that you're comparing, you should be able to get virtually indistinguishable result.

Yeah my first thought is the normal/bump value might be 0.3 in 3dsmax compared to 1.0 but its just a wild guess if it was converted from Vray. Without seeing the material setup and matched settings/lighting etc its a bit hard to tell at this point.

[musaemrekorkut]

Thank you for your patience.

I recreated the scenes and tried to make them similar.

I share the results with you.

I would also like to point out this.
Materials, lights etc. I did everything using corona.
I did not use materials from Vray.

I did not change any settings of 3ds Max and Cinema 4d, they are the original settings.
I think the problem is caused by the poor specifications of my computer and the limitations of the applications (3ds-c4d).

[James Vella]

In regards to my comment about Vray conversion, I wasn't talking about you converting it I was referring to how Cosmos converted it, if that's the case.

Where are the material settings? Most of these screenshots are irrelevant. Check the attached images. You should show both for 3dsmax/c4d. bump/normal settings may be different between the two if Cosmos didn't interpret them correctly, they should be 1.0 or 100%, not 0.3 or 30% if that's the case.

[musaemrekorkut]

Material settings are like this

[James Vella]

Materials look fine to me. How are you matching your lighting? I can see your backdrop, highlights/shadows look different. Can you just render both with the same light, a skylight with 255 white light. Does it still look different?

[James Vella]

For example, a really rough quick render of one of my models in c4d and 3dsmax, same 255 white lighting environment, same materials. Attached

[romullus]

Bump seems much stronger in your C4D version than in 3ds Max. At first i thought that maybe it's because of wrong gamma, but since you're not using normal maps, but rather old fashioned bump maps, that should not be the case. I never used C4d, so i can't possibly know that, but maybe 1.0 bump in 3ds Max does not equal to 100% in C4D? Also, do you use Corona bitmaps in both DCCs?

Edit: try to eliminate difference in lighting, it's clearly visible that this part is not matched on your side. Maybe it would be better to completely disable environment lighting in both programs, so there would be less variables.

[James Vella]

Bump seems much stronger in your C4D version than in 3ds Max. At first i thought that maybe it's because of wrong gamma, but since you're not using normal maps, but rather old fashioned bump maps, that should not be the case. I never used C4d, so i can't possibly know that, but maybe 1.0 bump in 3ds Max does not equal to 100% in C4D? Also, do you use Corona bitmaps in both DCCs?

1.0 bump in 3dsmax = 100 in c4d. so when I look at his fabric material at 0.7 in 3dsmax it should be 70% in c4d, which it appears to be.

[musaemrekorkut]

I would also like to point out this.

There is no difference in material settings in both applications.

This is the result when I use 255 white light.

I'm sorry it took me this long to respond :(

[romullus]

Apart from obvious difference in bump strength, i think the two renders are fairly similar, isn't? There are some visible difference in shading, so maybe Corona uses different default BRDF models in both DCCs, or maybe your materials are not exactly identical.

1.0 bump in 3dsmax = 100 in c4d. so when I look at his fabric material at 0.7 in 3dsmax it should be 70% in c4d, which it appears to be.

I think it's true for normal maps, but not necessarily so for bump maps. Anyway, someone from the team should definitely know the answer.

[musaemrekorkut]

Could the authorities be interested in us finding a solution to the problem?

[burnin]

Are you willing to create and post a comparative study scene files for peer review?

[musaemrekorkut]

https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxtapose/latest/embed/index.html?uid=9b958248-ca7b-11ee-9ddd-3f41531135b6

[maru]

I believe some differences may be expected when rendering the same assets in different host apps or render engines. For example, bump value 0.7 could mean something else in Max than in C4D.
I'll check with the devs and will return to you once I have any answers.
Can you tell me which exact version of Corona for Max and C4D you are using? I couldn't find this information in this thread.

[Beanzvision]

Hi guys, I have checked this in both Cinema 4D (my native software) and also 3ds Max with V11 HF1. Both scenes were rendered exactly the same with just an HDRI. Saved and opened in PS, and there is no difference in these renders at all.

[James Vella]

Pretty sure the real question here is, Beanz, why do you have a green/yellow cursor?

[Beanzvision]

Pretty sure the real question here is, Beanz, why do you have a green/yellow cursor?

Because it's better than boring white ;)

[Avi]

Hi,

here is my comparison of the cosmos asset in 3ds max and c4d. I just removed the bump mapping in both, and both renders pixel-to-pixel perfectly the same.

[romullus]

I just removed the bump mapping in both

But why? I think it's quite obvious, that apart from mismatched lighting, the biggest difference in OP's examples is in bump mapping. Wouldn't it be better to demonstrate that even with bump mapping Corona can produce identical results in both programs?

[James Vella]

Heres one comparing normal/bump.

[musaemrekorkut]

I believe some differences may be expected when rendering the same assets in different host apps or render engines. For example, bump value 0.7 could mean something else in Max than in C4D.
I'll check with the devs and will return to you once I have any answers.
Can you tell me which exact version of Corona for Max and C4D you are using? I couldn't find this information in this thread.

I use Corona 11 Hotfix 1 versions in both applications.

[maru]

We made some tests and we are generally getting almost identical results in Corona for 3ds Max and Cinema 4D.
There are some small differences, mostly in the appearance of normal maps. There could be various reasons for this, but the most likely explanation is that the same bump value (for example 0.75) is interpreted differently in 3ds Max and Cinema 4D.
So there may be some tiny differences between the same asset loaded into different host apps, but it does not affect their overall appearance. If needed, you are always welcome to adjust asset materials manually.

[musaemrekorkut]

I think this issue raises awareness about correcting these deficiencies in corona in the future.

Thank you everyone for your answers.

[romullus]

What issues exactly? Several people already demonstrated in this topic that you can get identical or nearly identical renders in both programs, given the fact that the scenes are prepared as close as possible to each other. No offence, but i think the only issue here is the user error.

[musaemrekorkut]

What issues exactly? Several people already demonstrated in this topic that you can get identical or nearly identical renders in both programs, given the fact that the scenes are prepared as close as possible to each other. No offence, but i think the only issue here is the user error.

The problems I mentioned are minor settings differences between the two applications.

I stated that minimizing the differences between them creates awareness.

[romullus]

Sorry, but that makes no sense to me. Do you have some specific workflow that requires pixel perfect match between renders from Corona for Max and Corona for C4D? You didn't show any examples where the scenes would be identical in both programs, but the renders be different.