Overclocking virgin needs gentle assistance (i7 965 X CPU + Rampage II X modo)

[3dwannab]

Before I start, I know this doesn't probably belong here but I have yet to see an over clocking thread on here so here goes: (I know people on here have OC'd their machines at some stage)

So. I've built a custom machine and have been using the following specs below for 6yrs now and I think I owe it to my Extreme edition gear now to get overclocking. I'm ashamed to say I've not done it until now (maybe wise to save my CPU, I dunno). But I lie, at the start I did try with the automatic Overclocking software that came with the motherboard but I just kept getting BSOD's and left it at factory setting until now.

The last two days I've been trying to get stable results without BSOD's every other attempt or PC just automatically shutting off. (I'll explain further down about my failed attempts).

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SPEC:
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate x64
CPU: Intel® Core(TM) i7 CPU 965 @ 3.20GHz Extreme edition
MB: Rampage II Extreme (Intel® LGA1366 Platform & Intel® X58/ICH10R chipset)
RAM: Crosair 12288 MBytes DDR3
GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2
Primary HD's: 2 x WD VelociRaptor 300 GB SATA Hard Drives @ 10,000RPM
Secondary HD's: 2 x WD VelociRaptor 1000 GB Hard Drives @ 7,200RPM
MONITOR: 32" HP LP3065 Wide LCD
COOLING: Noctua NH-U12P SE1366
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I've mentioned the whole spec so you can get an idea of the system I got all those years back (A bit OTT come to think of it). Anyway, cooling system is pretty okay. I just want to achieve a realistic 3.9Ghz or even 4Ghz at a push. I've seen on other forums that they achieve 4.0 on air-cooled systems with ease. Maybe my CPU is past it OR I do believe it may be down to reapplying thermal paste and reseating the cooler?!

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OC attempts (Changed factory values in bold)
I've tried just stepping up the ratio to x 27 (133Mhz bus speed x 27=3.591Ghz) without any other adjustments and it fails. It says CPU temp too high after saving the BIOS settings and restarting. The tutorial I followed was from here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/i7-c0-d0,2386-5.html where they managed 4.0GHz but I nver even got close to that.

I tried other settings but the best and most stable attempt is the multiplier of x26 (Increased 135Mhz bus speed x 26=3.510Ghz) and disabling any power saving options such as speedstep etc. I still have to do a stress test on that yet though. At least it's not shutting down. CPU temps are still higher than I'd like at 70degC Average.

As you can see there's not much difference there so do you think 3.510Ghz is the limit or does the VCORE need adjusting? I followed the exact vales in the tomsharedware link but nada y nada (nothing)!! and have tried in vain.
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I just thought I'd forget about it until I get some advice by 'more knowledgeable people' as to what may be the root of the problem. I just hope this isn't too off-topic.

On forums like I said they say it's probably the readjustment of the cooler and thermal paste. I DO NOT KNOW! Probably could be a busted CPU or something else.

I'm eager to get this thing working whatever way possible. The results are really good (See gif) at an OC that I got working. (36sec / 17% improvement on 2:54min test render at stock) Although, I'd love to push it to 4.0Ghz to see the improvement (I bet it's unreal) but I suppose that means water cooling which I don't mind installing.

I'm looking to see what peoples experiences are with this sort of thing and if they can help me out then great. The post is a bit long winded, so I won't blame you if you hit the backspace key :P)

RENDER RESULTS:

[Juraj]

You didn't write the MOST important part (but the one everyone ignores when they build PCs), the PSU.

As it is, you have 4870 X2 gpu, which as it is, is classic super hungry AMD chip that happens to be dual-chip card, requiring 650W PSU to power it alone (the GPU alone eats up to 460W in use)
Add overclocked 6-core and you're up to 300W at peak (4~GHz 1.3Vcore), adding up to 800W+ workstation. Does your PSU offer enough juice to power through this ?

[3dwannab]

Yes, sorry. When I was building it I made sure I had a big enough PSU. It's 850w. Maybe this might not be powerful enough. I've since added another 24inch moniter to go along with the 32inch one. Maybe I'd be better with a new PSU to allow greater head room. If I'm going to get the 980 graphics card then this will use up less power been a one chip setup. Would this have any bearing on the CPU becoming to hot at at relativity low over clock at 3.65ghz?

One more thing I forgot to mention was another error I was getting.

'BSOD: A clock interrupt was not received on a secondary processor.'

[Juraj]

Your monitors are powered up separately, unless you use would manually connect it through Molex.

I do not suggest buying another PSU to old computer like this, esp. given 1000W 80+ Gold would be 150+ euros.
I was gonna suggest you 750Ti, which draws only 60W, but is still 4 times faster than your 4870 (esp. bit more since 3dsMax and other CGI apps, don't use dual chip cards, they only see half of your card, dual-chip cards are NEVER good choice to buy).

Unless you play games, or do GPU rendering (Octane,etc..) 3dsMax doesn't care at all, if you use 750Ti, or 780Ti (or 970/980/...) so upgrade carefully, don't waste your money just because.

Getting back to overclocking, you can't expect identical result from another chip. It's "silicon lottery", some chip can get up to 4Ghz at 1.275Vcore, some might need 1.4! . And some chips can't even get there.
70C at 3.5 is already quite high if you're still on default Vcore settings. You can always try reseating but it doesn't guarantee the fault is there.

[3dwannab]

I thought they might have some effect on power drawn from the GPU. Anyway for new GPU, I'm going to go for the Asus GeForce GTX 970 (450W PSU Required) @ £320 https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-352-AS compared to the less powerful 780 at £290. With a 3 yr warranty for the 970 as oppsed to 2yr for the 780.

I just hope GPU ASUS Geforce drivers are better than the ATI ones. Boy, they were terrible I thought. And this will exactly match my motherboard brand. Could the crap driver for my GPU possibly be causing this OC problem or no?

My Vcore settings where left at auto. I don't know if that makes a difference. I did try upping the voltage to 1.4 but that's when I got the CPU overheating error in the BIOS or else auto shut-downs.

Would there be a possibility of damage done to the CPU such as a bent pin?

I'm going to get my hands on some thermal paste and try resitting the cooler. Is their any particular brand that's any better than others in your experience?

Here's an interesting chart from tomshardware. My CP is higher than any of those values by 10-15.

[Juraj]

I just hope GPU ASUS Geforce drivers are better than the ATI ones. Boy, they were terrible I thought. And this will exactly match my motherboard brand. Could the crap driver for my GPU possibly be causing this OC problem or no?

No, I would say almost no chance. ATI drivers were considered worse for a long time, but that doesn't apply much anymore. Nonetheless it has nothing to do with your issue. I would say 90perc. chance is you're overflowing your PSU.

My Vcore settings where left at auto. I don't know if that makes a difference. I did try upping the voltage to 1.4 but that's when I got the CPU overheating error in the BIOS or else auto shut-downs.

Would there be a possibility of damage done to the CPU such as a bent pin?

I'm going to get my hands on some thermal paste and try resitting the cooler. Is their any particular brand that's any better than others in your experience?

If you were reaching 70+C at default auto vcore, than it's nonsuprising that 1.4 would shut down your PC.
I doubt there is any damage to CPU if you were running it for so long without any issue. That would have manifested far sooner.

The silver paste ? Doesn't matter.

Bear in mind your Air Cooler while the best in its category, is still 120mm with narrow heatsink. It's no monster like NH-D14-15. It's powerful, but not as powerful. You might not reach 4.0Ghz stable without overheating if you scored only average chip,
and your overall airflow in case isn't optimal.

[3dwannab]

That GPU was the worst buy of the build. I should went with the GTX 280 at the time.  At least speed tree will work with the 970. And the possibility of an OC will be ever likely :]

I tried stress testing using this tool if your interested (
Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool (64-bit): https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?DwnldID=19792

My CPU completely freaked out and had to stop it 10-15 seconds into the test.

Cool the NH-D14-15 is great looking. LGA 1366 socket support... NICE. Next on the shopping list.

Here's a pic of the inside of my PC. Any Comments on airflow? ;)

[Juraj]

The vertical push-pull setup you have doesn't do much, it's pretty crowded. Also you only mounted one CPU fan, and quite strangely above.
Hence your CPU is quite poorly cooled at the moment.

[Juraj]

The vertical push-pull setup you have doesn't do much, it's pretty crowded. Also you only mounted one CPU fan (or perhaps only the SE version comes with 2 fans by default... ? ), and quite strangely above.
Hence your CPU is quite poorly cooled at the moment. I suggest mounting both fans on the heatsink.

I don't suggest upgrading your Cooler though, looks like you went with high-profile ram modules. Even though NH-D15 has improved clearing, it might not fit.
Just mount the heatsink with both fans. Could be alternatively rotated 90 degrees too, but again the fans might collide with ram.

For future reference, buying high-profile ram modules (with tall passive heatsinks, they're btw completely useless) is only suggested if you go with water cooling, any decent air cooler collides with them.

[3dwannab]

It only came with one. I should have went and got the other one. I can't remember for the life of me why it was mounted that way. I had a friend iT technician at that stage of the build with me so I can blame him. ;) The fan  should either be mounted on the right pushing air towards the back exhaust fan or underneath pushing upward to the top exhaust fan in the case with the extra fan to help pull the fan out the other side. (There's two 120mm exhaust fans at the top of the case BTW) You can see here the configuration: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=faqs&step=2&products_id=14&lng=en#5

JPG from link:


Crowded? In what sense? I'm not quite clear on that. Is everything not as it should be bar the cooler.

I see the fan thats closest to the ram modules on the NH-D15 can be slightly adjust depth wise in the case. My case is quite large so I don't think that could be a problem. The Height of D15 (with fan) = 165 mm and my case is 215mm from the CPU socket approx so it should fit okay taking in mind the necessary adjustment needed.

Pic of large profiled RAM Modules and D15:


OR perhaps water cooling could be less hassle to have beer (I left that typo in ;) better cooling and airflow in the case with higher achievable overclocks possible.

[Juraj]

Close looped water cooling systems (those 100 euro like Corsair i100,...) are not more capable than top air coolers like Noctua. But yes, they can be easier to deal with and mount.

The Issue with NH-D14 was the heatsink itself was colliding, so even moving fan wouldn't help, same issue with most air coolers. 15 solved that.

I think for your case simply mounting another fan might be enough. Depends no how much you're willing to spend on upgrading your machine.

[3dwannab]

I'm opting to go for the Cooler Master Nepton 140XL. Its compact (No need to worry about RAM modules sizes). Easily installed with no tools necessary (Thumb screws) as opposed to having to installed a special mounted bracket for the LGA1366 socket, easier to maintain/clean than larger air coolers with no service needed to the part itself until the pump fails I suppose. Even mine is quite tight which worries me about getting an even larger air cooler. I wanted to plug out the CPU fan header and it was a bit of a tight squeeze when I was cleaning out the dust the other day. overall £75 is not to bad for this unit. http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-060-CM

Below is two tests for temps on my machine over a 10min period with a 10min lay period between test. I've tested with the case open and closed. I'll post my findings once I get my filthy hands on the new cooler. :]
test 1: Temp Before Upgrade - Temp With Cover 73.75Avg
test 2: Temp Before Upgrade - Temp Without Cover 59Avg

And some bench tests below. It comes 2nd in the list here to the much larger CM Nepton H110. The NH-D14 is 8°C hotter on the highest end Over-clocked bench test.

[Juraj]

You have a big temperature difference with opened case, 10C is quite unusual I would say :- ). Do you have any frontal intake fans mounted ? I supposed this is largely due to your "heater" GPU.

I think people reported quite few issues with CM Neptons (particularly the pump), but this thing is always just pure luck, so maybe no need to concern much with it. Otherwise, good choice.

[3dwannab]

haha 'heater' is right!! I'm sure the ambient temp in the case with the heat coming of the GPU kills the overall temps anyway. But if my heatsink was correctly setted I'm sure the temps will greatly decrease. The single chip 970 will be less hot. At the moment there is current temps of my GPU of 64 and 75. Which matches the temp of the CPU. Upgrading the cooler will allow greater airflow across the whole motherboard lowering the ambient temps inside even more.

Once these parts come I'm going to try and sort out the cable management better. Replace the existing fans with Noctua NF-F12 PWM 120mm Focused Flow PWM Cooling Fans.

Yes. I've two frontal fans but I think I might reconfigure the one in the harddrive bay and it's point up by design and change it so it faces front to pack to push air through the case in one direction. I'll post pics of the before and after build with tests on temps etc.

Thanks very much for your valued advice Juraj.

[Juraj]

You're welcome.

Btw I run most of my chips overclocked, but I take care not to over-design the cooling because more fans=more noise, and I hate noise.
At most, I usually only run following: Single front intake (middle of case, not drivebay), Single End (not top, which I keep closed) intake, and 2CPU fans on Heatsink (NH-D14/15) in vertical position= horizontal airflow. 4 Fans total, the case ones limited to 900RPM also, which
makes for very silent PC, but still lets you run 4.2+ GHz without any issue.

Less is good, if it's in good position and works as should :- ).

[3dwannab]

Here's a rough diagram of my air flow.
1. Intake - Mid level Inside drive bay pointing vertical. (Would it be a good idea to rotate that fan pointing toward the back?) I think there's room to get a 150mm fan fitted vertically in there.
2. Intake - Low level
3 & 4. Exhaust
5. To be replaced with new cooling by CM.

The noise doesn't bother me within reason. Although, the GPU fans 1+2 are quite loud though in comparison to the 120mm's.

[Juraj]

What is the logic rotating it horizontally ? Yes, set it vertical, pulling air inwards the end. Like this:



You can keep one or two. If you keep two, you can set them to be slowly rotating (<700-900RPM).

[Juraj]

Regarding 3&4 exhaust, you might alternatively don't need those if you buy "reference design" GTX, which have exhaust outside of the case (as opposed to inside like the multi-fan solution from Asus, MSI, Gigabyte,...).

[3dwannab]

The previous pic I posted showed the positions where they are now. That fan definatly needs to be rotated. 140 or 150mm fan for that position will work wonders for the air flow. :)

[Ondra]

point the fan into the rear exhaust, NEVER into the PSU, if possible - I did it once, and when the CPU is under load, PSU draws in hot air and its fan speed+noise increases significantly

[3dwannab]

Regarding 3&4 exhaust, you might alternatively don't need those if you buy "reference design" GTX, which have exhaust outside of the case (as opposed to inside like the multi-fan solution from Asus, MSI, Gigabyte,...).

I see what you mean. The heat gets dissipated out the back as opposed to back into the case which would case more heat overall. http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-205-OK

As opposed to the ASUS one I was going to buy: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-352-AS.

Thanks for that.

point the fan into the rear exhaust, NEVER into the PSU, if possible - I did it once, and when the CPU is under load, PSU draws in hot air and its fan speed+noise increases significantly

Thanks, In this case the PSU is completely sealed inside and the air is drawn from the outside through a filter underneath. See here:

[3dwannab]

Swapped the CPU fan around to this position (Pushing up).


The results are both around 7-13.5degC lower than before the post below.

Below is two tests for temps on my machine over a 10min period with a 10min lay period between test. I've tested with the case open and closed. I'll post my findings once I get my filthy hands on the new cooler. :]
test 1: Temp Before Upgrade - Temp With Cover 73.75Avg
test 2: Temp Before Upgrade - Temp Without Cover 59Avg

And some bench tests below. It comes 2nd in the list here to the much larger CM Nepton H110. The NH-D14 is 8°C hotter on the highest end Over-clocked bench test.

I know the fan is probably sucking in hotter air in this position next to the GPU but this is as good as I can do until I get thermal paste and the rest of the upgrade stuff.

[3dwannab]

Just thought I'd follow up on results. And it worked out well. Defiantly was due to the old heat-sink not working correctly. I think the cooling plate may have been faulty out of the factory. Either that or the paste wasn't properly applied.

Anyway the results with the new H110 from Corsair. I used the benchmark scene found on this forum.

Stock @ 3.2Ghz (CPU: Max avg. temp 45dC)
Corona Renderer Alpha 4 benchmark scene
 Living room 100 passes
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 965 @ 3.20GHz
Time: 0:6:48, Rays/s: 3,114,342

OC'd @ 3.7Ghz  (CPU: Max avg. temp 70dC)
Time: 0:6:28, Rays/s: 3,274,014

OC'd @ 3.9Ghz  (CPU: Max avg. temp 74dC)
Time: 0:5:59, Rays/s: 3,547,260

OC'd @ 4.0Ghz  (CPU: Max avg. temp 75dC)
Time: 0:5:30, Rays/s: 3,854,289

OC'd @ 4.160Ghz  (CPU: Max avg. temp 70dC)
Time: 0:5:19, Rays/s: 3,986,984

1min 30sec shaved of which isn't to shabby. The temps are much much better. The last OC'd @ 4.160Ghz had been OC'd for two days after the previous test at 4.0Ghz. I just wanted to see if was stable enough to post.

IMPORTANT:
If you do happen to purchase the H110 DO NOT USE a screwdriver like a youtuber with a million + subscribers tells you. You'll end up f******* up the backplate because it's only made for hand tightening. I got one sent to me as soon as I emailed them. I'm not fortunate to have an access panel to the back of the CPU so it means having to rip out the MB once again.. noice!!! :(

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OC @ 4.16GHz (75degC).jpg Shows the temps and CPU stress test pass from the Intel Processer Diagnostic tool.
- And some pics of the new setup (some show the old cooler).
New Noctua NF-F12 IndustrialPPC 3000RPM PWM 120mm High Performance Fans
- 970GTX GPU
- Notice the Silica Gel Pouches, these soak up any moisture that may be in your case.