Can anyone recommend a place to buy an expandable Renderfarm?

[Alex Abarca]

Except for BOXX technologies they are too pricey.

[juang3d]

Why don't you prepare one yourself?  You just need some CPU integrated liquid refrigeration, a small case and if you don't need GPU rendering power, then a small GPU, I don't recommed integrated ones, I prefer a small external one, but it's a personal preference, apart form that, a bunch of ram, a small hard drive, and you have it, now acquire 10 of this, and you have your own personal renderfarm, maybe no 80 nodes, but it's really powerful.

Cheers.

[Alex Abarca]

I don't know how to make one. My brain is filled with architecture design and rendering, fitting computer science is not likely for me. I was hoping someone can recommend me some renderfarm builders.

I called this company to inquire about this unit, but they dont understand what a renderfarm is.

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/FANG_Mini_R9

[CiroC]

Maybe this could help you:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/render-farm-node,review-31633.html

[Rebus farm]

Why not using Rebusfarm.net :p

[CiroC]

Actually an even better option is using Amazon EC2 as a render farm. Works perfectly. :D

The beauty of using this system is that if you need more power you can easily upgrade the machine or machines. Just to give an example a machine with 8 Cores 30GB RAM and 2 x 80 SSD   is - $1.064 per Hour

This guy explains everything:
http://www.judpratt.com/tutorials/ec2-renderfarm/

[juang3d]

The thing here is that you need the licenses to do that.

For example, how can you prepare it with maya?

But it's been something iteresting since some time, how can you calculate what is going to be the cost of that farm, let's say you need to render a shot, 1 hour pre frame, 450 frames, and you want to have it in6 hours, what is going to be the cost?

Also, is there some monthly basis cost you have to maintain?

Cheers.

[CiroC]

The thing here is that you need the licenses to do that.

For example, how can you prepare it with maya?

But it's been something iteresting since some time, how can you calculate what is going to be the cost of that farm, let's say you need to render a shot, 1 hour pre frame, 450 frames, and you want to have it in6 hours, what is going to be the cost?

Also, is there some monthly basis cost you have to maintain?

Cheers.

Well, it depends how you set up. One possibility is setting up the machine with a trial version and then create an image to use later. After 30 days you only have to do is using the image you saved and everything is ready to go, again. A little bit dodgy I know. And if you are concerned about the files (project) google drive does a fantastic job with synchronization and don't worry because the internet speed of these machines is amazing.

Again, rendering the 450 frames depends how you approach the situation. One possibility is increasing the capacity (CPU and RAM) of one single machine, but this will also make the machine more expensive per hour, but on the other hand you can create 10 or 20 machines.

Creating machines takes 2 minutes and if you have an image as I mentioned, perhaps in 10 minutes you can 20 machines ready to render. You only pay for the time you are using the machines, so this means you can have 100 machines if you want to and only pay the ones that are being used. The monthly cost for maintenance is something around $1.

There isn't special tool to calculate the cost, but if you know how long it takes at your computer, it is possible to roughly know how long is going to take on more powerful computer.

PS - If you are using Maya, the Linux machines are half the price.

[juang3d]

It's a interesting approach, can you make me the favour and calculate how much could it cost the case I told you before?

Can you run the corona benchmark in one of those machines to know how powerful is one of the machines you described? (8 cores, 30gb of ram)

Think that in the case I mention you have a scene that takes to render 1 hour per frame in a 2600k, and you want to have the 450 frames in 5 hours, think in creating more machines as you say, how much could it cost? (if you want, to make it easier, take 1 hour in one of those machines :) )

Cheers!

[Ondra]

Well, it depends how you set up. One possibility is setting up the machine with a trial version and then create an image to use later. After 30 days you only have to do is using the image you saved and everything is ready to go, again.

... or you could just crack it, legally it is the same thing

[juang3d]

I meant the idea of having a preinstalled system that you can duplicate within minutes, that is what is an interesting approach, with max there is no problem about the trial, we don't even start the trial mode in the farm nodes, that's why we don't use Maya for render, you have no render licenses with it, we still use max as render platform, even when we try to work with maya everything character or simulation related (looking forward to Corona for Maya, go Haggi go!)

The question still stands, a rough calculation will be very welcome :)

Cheers.

[CiroC]

Well, it depends how you set up. One possibility is setting up the machine with a trial version and then create an image to use later. After 30 days you only have to do is using the image you saved and everything is ready to go, again.

... or you could just crack it, legally it is the same thing

Keymaster, do you have any reference with that information or where I could find that information? I know that the windows license is provided by Amazon, so no worries with that. Technically, the PC is deleted and a new one is created.

juang3d I will have a look tomorrow morning, but it is not going to be very cheap. Can you tell me what machine did you used to get 1 hour for each frame?

[Ondra]

I am too lazy to go through the licence to find something, but I am pretty sure that it will say that circumventing the trial limits is forbidden and maybe that it cannot be used commercially.

Just because you did not have to crack a software does not mean it is legal ;)

[juang3d]

An i7 2600k at 4Ghz

Cheers and thanks, this will clear out some doubts I have regarding this :)

Cheers!

[CiroC]

I am too lazy to go through the licence to find something, but I am pretty sure that it will say that circumventing the trial limits is forbidden and maybe that it cannot be used commercially.

Just because you did not have to crack a software does not mean it is legal ;)

Thanks. I am just wondering because I worked for a company where they use to do this. But I believe it is mo

juang3d

I picked the sample corona scene and rendered one image with 2592x1944 and it took around 40min (100 passes). This means that using only one machine with 8 Cores and 30GB RAM it would take 300 hours to render the 450 frames. If you select a Compute Optimize machine for $0.752 this means you will pay between $227 and $250.

But sometimes it is better to select a lower machine that although will take longer to render it is less expensive and in some situations you will pay less.

[juang3d]

Thanks Cyrus3v!

Another question, does your calcs means that I can use that computer along 300hours or multiply the computers by 300 and get my animation within the hour for the same costs?

I don't think paying 250$ for rendering a project in your own farm is bad, using my own farm is less expensive, but this can become a support for moments where I need more computing power :)

Cheers.

[CiroC]

Exactly. Or you use one computer during 300 hours or you use 300 computers during 1 hour. What matters is the time you spent using the machine and the type of machine you are using.

As I mentioned sometimes it is cheaper using a lower machine because even if it takes a little bit longer you pay less.

[juang3d]

Thanks Cyrus3v, i'll try it.:D

Cheers

[CiroC]

Glad I could help.

:D

[Juraj]

If you only setup backburner in the network, the rendering nodes don't need to be licenced (for example 3dsMax).

No matter how I looked at the Amazon deal, I've never found it to be cheap at all if you want brute performance out of it, I don't really think that was the intention anyway.
Classic solutions like Rebus seemed to do the it cheaper and way more convenient, but I didn't bother to do the math too deeply.

[CiroC]

I don't use this system to render animations. Only when I need an urgent still image I use AWS and I can get an image for just $3 which I don't find expensive. I never quite understood how Rebus or other solutions work.

[Rebus farm]

At Amazon you pay full hours - means if you are 3minutes over the limit you pay 57min for nothing.

Solutions like RebusFarm charge per second per node and ontop you pay only CPU usage only.
loading job - setup scene - preparing and more stuff happen via single Core.
Only that one Core is charged. Idle time is free!

Try to get techhelp from Amazon if you are in rush. You are doomed.
Even if you get a supporter on the phone he has no clue about 3d or Corona.
Renderfarms do.

There are many more advantages to use a real render service but it goes to far to explain them all.

@Cyrus3v
what hardware you used at Amazon to get 40min for 100 passes in 2592*1944px??

I did a test on my farm hardware node with the sample scene in 2592*1944px
I have 36minutes using 12core Xeon 2,4ghz
I doubt the hardware at EC2 performs that good comapring to my hardware
A few month back I tested EC2 and several hardware types. The performance I got was super bad.

[CiroC]

I used the a compute optimize instance, and just to make clear that I am not trying to sell anything or force someone to use this service. I just presented an alternative solution. Amazon EC2 is not a render farm, but at least for me it is much cheaper then a render farm. Not to mention there is GPU render if need.

[juang3d]

QuakeMarine it depends.

There are times whe you cna't send the project to a far, because an NDA, but you can use Amazon.

Also you pay per hour, but in a job where you have to render 500frames at 1h/frame there is not much difference if you pay one hour more or lesss.

Also the renderfarms I tried usually reult more expensive than their calculators say.

For me the best is to have your own farm (and I want to offer mine commercially) but this could be a good extension of the farm in a rush moment IMHO.

Cheers.

[Rebus farm]

Also the renderfarms I tried usually reult more expensive than their calculators say.

Cheers.

using Progressive sampler ist not possible to have more costs since you limit the costs before render starts ;-D
a big advantage of Corona and Rebus

for sure its better to use own hardware insteat EC2 or a renderfarm but if deadline is close you have no option

""Also you pay per hour, but in a job where you have to render 500frames at 1h/frame there is not much difference if you pay one hour more or less.""
there is - it doubble the costs or i not get your point

[CiroC]

QuakeMarine it depends.

There are times whe you cna't send the project to a far, because an NDA, but you can use Amazon.

Also you pay per hour, but in a job where you have to render 500frames at 1h/frame there is not much difference if you pay one hour more or lesss.

Also the renderfarms I tried usually reult more expensive than their calculators say.

For me the best is to have your own farm (and I want to offer mine commercially) but this could be a good extension of the farm in a rush moment IMHO.

Cheers.

It happen the precisely the same thing with me. The calculator showed that I only needed €9 to render one image, but I end up paying €12.

[Rebus farm]

using bucket mode it can be the case but in progressive

[juang3d]

Why it does not happend using progressive?

If I render an animation I need the exact same number of passes for every frame, but all the frames are not completed in the same time, so... why is using progressive so awesome?

I never limit render by time, never! I need/want a quality, and that quality is a number of samples, or an specific amount of refinement with bucket mode.

Using the time limit is useful when you have to do some render test and you know you are going to be out of the office for X time, or you want to take a break of 10 minutes, you put a 10 minutes render and when it finishes... you know your break has finished hahaha

Cheers.

[Rebus farm]

i see you understand the problem about animations and progressive

for still images is progressive working perfectly since we render all the image on many nodes and merge the result to one final image
PC A do 30 passes - B do 10 and C do 20 give you 60 passes at the end
the costs for A B C are the same since we charge the CPU "power" a node have not just the time per node
anyway

back to aniamtion - if using progressive you setup the costs perimage in advance aswell the maximal samples per image
maximal 100 passes with 100 images for 100 euro means 1 euro per image
1 euro equals X minutes rendertime on a node so i start the render with passes 100 and X minutes
now the catch
in best case you get all your images with 100 passes because the node need less time to complete the passes
you not pay 100 euro - you pay less!

other hand
you get be best possible passes per image for exact 100 euro
I am aware one image can have 99 passes and onother (more complex) image has 40 passes only
but atm we have no other soluion for that issue
if you you need to have all images the same passes/quality you need to use bucket render but here noone cane say for sure how many euro the render whould be

[juang3d]

But this way you have some inconsistency in frames quality, so you can have a lot of noise in some part of the animation and no noise in some other.

With bucket render, it is as it's been in the past when you used to use mental ray vray and such render engines :) you can estimate the costs, more or less, but you are right, it's hard to get an excat estimation.

Cheers.

[casparagus]

If you happen to be in the US, you can pick up a Dell C6100 (model XS23-TY3) for really cheap.

It includes 4 nodes, each with dual processor. If you search on ebay for 'XS23-TY3' you should be able to find one (with 4 nodes, so 8x Hexa core xeon processors) for $1500-$3000. Unbeatable value at the moment. I just wish I had a couple of grand.

[tomislavn]

If you happen to be in the US, you can pick up a Dell C6100 (model XS23-TY3) for really cheap.

It includes 4 nodes, each with dual processor. If you search on ebay for 'XS23-TY3' you should be able to find one (with 4 nodes, so 8x Hexa core xeon processors) for $1500-$3000. Unbeatable value at the moment. I just wish I had a couple of grand.

Actually, I was searching ebay.de (Germany) over last few days for the exact same thing :) - They go for like 1200-2000 euros here (around 1.6k-2.6k $) so it is definitely something to think about! Should be amazing performance for like 2 grand - even cheaper if you happen to live in the US. Not to mention there are some with like 128 or 96 GB of ram and SSD-s also inside..

[casparagus]

Yeah its pretty good value.

From what I understand, thousands of these machines are leased to big companies (facebook, bing etc). When the lease is over, the computers are returned to Dell, who sells them off cheap in batches of 500+. So now the market has been flooded with these beasts for cheap.

I'm hoping the same thing will happen soon with the Dell C6220s (the more recent version) - that will be sweeeet!

[Juraj]

Not to mention there are some with like 128 or 96 GB of ram and SSD-s also inside..

That's not how it works though most time. When a whole node-pack is listed in this fashion, you need to divide it per node, and on average the nodes come with 24GB, or 48 in more expensive variants.

Do your calculations precisely though, because from what I observed, you often get only notch higher performance compared to conventional contemporary builds. After all, you are buying core-2 generations xeons or early westmere ones. The higher-specced C6100 often go up to 4000 dollars on Ebay (8x X5670, which actually is quite serious performance) but even than you save about 40perc. of price (ok, that can be a lot to some) to performance of contemporary custom build.
It looks like amazing budget deal if you only count "cores" on paper, but if you take into account their architecture family, frequency, and power draw...well, it's not that amazing anymore. It has quite too many drawbacks imho.

Not that it can't be good deal, but I see a lot of stary-eyed guys on internet forums thinking like it's amazing deal. Then I look at it...and, not really. Be cautious.

[tomislavn]

Not to mention there are some with like 128 or 96 GB of ram and SSD-s also inside..

That's not how it works though most time. When a whole node-pack is listed in this fashion, you need to divide it per node, and on average the nodes come with 24GB, or 48 in more expensive variants.

Do your calculations precisely though, because from what I observed, you often get only notch higher performance compared to conventional contemporary builds. After all, you are buying core-2 generations xeons or early westmere ones. The higher-specced C6100 often go up to 4000 dollars on Ebay (8x X5670, which actually is quite serious performance) but even than you save about 40perc. of price (ok, that can be a lot to some) to performance of contemporary custom build.
It looks like amazing budget deal if you only count "cores" on paper, but if you take into account their architecture family, frequency, and power draw...well, it's not that amazing anymore. It has quite too many drawbacks imho.

Not that it can't be good deal, but I see a lot of stary-eyed guys on internet forums thinking like it's amazing deal. Then I look at it...and, not really. Be cautious.

That's true, I agree with you completely. But still, even though they are quite some generations behind, my dual Xeon X5650 @ 3.4Ghz (12 cores/24 threads) running on EVGA SR-2 with 24GB ram (I think I've spent like 500 bucks for both processors, mobo and ram together, on ebay) still obliterate my main modelling machine (i7 4770K @ 4.4Ghz, 32gb ram) while rendering. And we are talking around 50% of rendering speed increase at least.